You made me part of your forgotten dream Solderpunk phlogged[0] recently in part about the larger-scale sustainability of people opting to remove themselves from the 'grid'. That post immediately sparked some thoughts in my mind that others have no doubt also pondered but I thought I would share my current ramblings on the subject. He questioned in part as to whether it was necessary for the majority of people to stay tied to that consumptive, high-infrastructure life for it to be feasible for some to maintain a life off the grid in simpler housing in a much more minimalist way. There has been a variety of discussion for years now on the topic of automation and its likelihood of putting entire swaths of the working population out of work. If the prices of everything remain the same that certainly poses a problem - millions going hungry in the US where already one in eight experiences food insecurity in a year sounds like a very serious problem. But what if you flip that unemployment problem on its head? What if prices didn't stay the same? With readily available 3D printing in durable materials with tight tolerances, ubiquitous and flexible automated assembly and other processes, automated food production, construction and transportation - could it become quite possible for people to not have to work a lot of hours to have what they need? Certainly the ability of a very few people to provide plenty of durable goods for the entire population should be within reach. If we could but bridge the gap to making things in a more recyclable fashion even material costs might cease to be a burden on manufacturing (that is probably the real hurdle to overcome). At that point if - and it's an enormous 'if' - the price of goods is allowed to decline along with the costs of producing them, then the labor that a person has to put forth to cover their material needs should become very, very low. This brings to mind of course the automobile which Henry Ford made available to the American common family by finding ways to significantly reduce his manufacturing costs. The thinking at that time was that quality of life should improve as it becomes cheaper and easier to make things and life should get easier. Ford eventually began paying his workers more in part so they could buy the products they were making. We have drifted away from that ideal as the drive for quarterly sales and profits, have driven designed obsolescence and seasonal buying cycles with marketing pushing us to consume more and more. We are being driven away from that ideal by the need for a greater 'return on investment' for the wealthy in the stock market. If costs and labor needs plummet there is the very real possibility of people someday living very easy lives if only we don't allow the greed of the wealthy to keep prices high and drive ever greater rates of consumption. That ought to be the outcome of drastically cheaper manufacturing. There is of course also the problem of what people would do with their time given a significant increase in leisure. It might in fact be a new renaissance of creativity for people, free to devote themselves to things that they love, or always wanted to pursue but were too time-consuming because of the need to subsist. There might be problems of motivation for some but in a generation or two that would likely resolve itself as culture adapted. In any case finding uses for our time would certainly be a good problem to have versus food insecurity, lack of safe drinking water and healthcare costs bankrupting people on a wide scale. kvothe wrote[1] some time ago a bit on the topic of our obsession at being good at anything we do holding us back from doing a lot of things. Take that inhibition away and you have millions of people free to enjoy their lives, help one another out, teach each other new things and study what they always wanted to study. Furthermore of course, fields which may continue to need more human workers - such as nursing and healthcare where labor costs and profit motives lead to shortages of workers and poor care - you could certainly see more people going into working in those fields because they have the option and because it's very rewarding work. Coming back to Solderpunk's point (is there a term for a second-order tangent?): If a majority of people decided to remove themselves from the rat race and live minimally, disconnected from the electrical grid and consumption for its own sake, could such a society continue to provide the things they can't produce for themselves individually? It ought to not be difficult at all soon, the technology to allow for it seems nearly inevitable. A small fraction of the population ought to be able to manage the production necessary for those who opt out. Opting out might in fact become a very popular idea, I think. [0]gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/0/%7esolderpunk/phlog/can-we-all-walk-away.txt [1]gopher://zaibatsu.circumlunar.space:70/1/%7ekvothe/phlog/2018-10-03-mediocrity/ NO CARRIER