The trendy now is to put everything to genetics. Hard to escape
   it. Nature is winning. Nurture was the Well, I'm being honest in
   my discussions with you here. I'm not avoiding the studies you
   present but my biases speak more to my answers than anything as
   perhaps yours may to yours. You may be more drawn to large scale
   statistical trends and absolute sounding genetics explanations.
   I tend to be more drawn towards educational psychology, child
   rearing, "change" motivated explanations. But I acknowledge
   genetics has a very strong place. I acknowledge that statistics
   have their uses in determining some public policy. Yet, I also
   know that modification of behavior is possible, utilizing
   whatever genetics one has come into the world with via proper
   training and enriched environments for learning. == Well, "quick
   fix" methods have failed. Busing in the early 70s was a flop, as
   were programs that brought poor black kids into rich white
   people's houses for a summer. The kids would go back to their
   shit lives and get worse after NOW experiencing more awesome
   stuff they'll never have. Is there a limit? I don't know.
   Witness the Common Core mess. Education is far from where it
   needs to be. Parental education programs are shit in most
   communities. Yes, there's a limit but I don't think we've done
   much to try as a society. == I don't have an agenda here but I
   do have a skepticism of pure genetic explanations for things -
   not just in this so I give it great scrutiny. I have a bias
   towards upbringing explanations for things as I've always been a
   strong proponent of education, people's mental and psychological
   development with regards to how they are treated and the effects
   of their self-image upon their performance in various tasks.
   Likely all the things that make you cringe tongue emoticon But
   it's my bias. === I can accept that the g-factor in intelligence
   is partially heritable yet I also hold some doubt as to the
   validity of the g-factor at the same time. IQ test scores I
   don't hold much credibility for but I'll give some credence to
   g-factor studies, with reservations. == It's not a struggle with
   my bias: it's just recognition of it. Here, I will give an
   example of my bias via whatever stereotypes this may form: I
   paid $$$ for a career test about 15 years ago. Long test, very
   detailed and while I never entered this career, I know it's one
   I would do very well in: Middle School Teacher, Special Ed. My
   personality through and through. That includes talented and
   gifted as well as slower learners. In a sense, I'm "anti-bell
   curve" quite deep down. That doesn't bother me either, but I
   recognize it. == The information you presented is unconvincing
   to me. Trends are not convincing to me. Even my investing style
   from way back when was contrary. I see a trend, I look for the
   outliers. The path of rhetoric you've been pursuing to convince
   me has been unconvincing. The outliers you discard, I embrace. I
   consider all persons outliers in some statistical study of some
   sort. You're an outlier in some aspects.* is an outlier in some
   aspects. These are what are interesting to me. The evidence
   you've been providing is not the kind of evidence that convinces
   me of things. You must have multiple tactics other than these to
   convince. Hammers work on nails but I'm screwy. == I'm impressed
   by different forms of evidence than what you provided. But we
   are talking. Of course you were trying to convince me. You're
   trying to convince a number of people, but I don't care about
   them. I'm pursuaded by a pursuasive argument. But your arguments
   so far haven't been entirely pursuasive. Partially? Yes. I
   acknowledge the g-factor in intelligence may be genetic. I
   acknowledge that some surveys are useful and that genetics plays
   a significant factor in many aspects of personality, growth
   potential and _perhaps_ things like IQ testing done in school
   environments. So, you're part way there. I'm willing to be
   convinced. You haven't failed. But you have to add to your
   arsenal. == I may be the most reasonable individual you'll come
   across in these debates. If you can convince me - and I believe
   you can - I doubt there's too many people you couldn't convince.
   But I'll leave it up to you. In any case, I enjoy the discussion
   and I appreciate your time. ==