Thank you Walter. Take away the sparkles and the woo, and they're basically Miss Marple or Angela Landsbury. They fool people as a regular part of the profession. People like James Randi actually *believe* that they believe themselves what they're doing. But they don't. They know they're full of shit and they laugh all the way to under the mattress. [If they're Romani, they got ALL us white-folk fooled and banks, lol, no] MG**You're thinking like an academic. You gotta think more like a Las Vegas con man to understand the Psychic's game. There's useful information to be had if you look past the obvious. The crap on the Atheist forums and stuff miss the real facts entirely. Everybody's feeding somebody a line of bullshit somehow. Gotta keep your thinking clear. Following a logical fallacy chart only gets you so far in stuff like this. smile emoticon Mistake #1: Assuming people are stupid. Mistake #2: Assuming you're smarter than someone else because you believe [x] and you believe they believe [y] because that's what they told you they believe and what they say they believe is stupid, therefore you are smarter. Remove those mistakes and there's surprises around every turn.