Everything is a nail, and standard mathematics and algorithms - as marvelous as they are of course - are the hammers. It's not that we need a screwdriver either. Some things just "are" whether or not we have the proper stories to go along with them or not. Still,a lot of money and technology is poured into the efort and there are a lot of good things that come of it... so the pragmatist in me doesn't mind their continued effort... but the idealist in me wishes they weren't giving people the wrong impression about the world and themselves. You're on a noble quest Ian, and I applaud your continued efforts. They're not in vain. I had to read up on it, as I was only slightly familiar with it. I think they're having fun at it and wish them the best of luck. I think a lot of interesting things may come of it as they continue on. I think it'll _probably_ self-destruct in organization, as most movements based on enthusiasm do... but if they gain a quasi-religious dedication, it can last a few generations at least. *and* if they manage to change the world while I'm not looking... well, I'll happily adjust. I never cared what political/financial system I'm in, as long as there are no guns to my face and despite media impressions, most of the places that most of the people live in the world, even in war areas, people just go to work, raise their kids, have relationships, watch movies, and do regular things. People like normalcy. Normalcy is boring and doesn't make news, so we never get to hear about it. But ultimately, do I think anything much will come of it? Well, the hippies helped re-ignite the interest in theoretical physics... so that's interesting. Movements *can* have unexpected lasting effects, even if it's not in the areas they anticipate. But I don't think they'll get the changes they seek, but I expect LOTS of books on the subject to be written now and in the future 'cause in the end, people need to make money, even to support alternate currencies tongue emoticon