I thought it was bullshit 'til I was in my 4th decade and joined this very group. I joined Philosophy groups twice before online, once in the early 00s and another time in the early 90s (Usenet omg)... ...and this is the FIRST TIME I hung around more than three months. Same flame wars. Same subjects. Same battles about the same things. The only difference now is: I have a concept of where it fits and how it's good and where it's bad. Plus, I have patience now. It's a system comprising multiple systems. Some get you from A --> B, some put you in that "woah" self-questioning / reality-questioning mode. Depends on your needs. One type of philosophy tends to dominate online discourse but there are many and yes, the love is there. Like marrying a cranky, persnickity wife, it took me many many years to love philosophy, even the parts I didn't care for for so long. But now, I do. Of course... what allows me to be here is it's all bullshit, including myself and my opines about things. By All.. I mean... well... _all_... anything that gets us emotionally attached. Gets us mad. Frustrated. Happy. Whatever. Needing to prove something for some reason to someone else we've never seen and only know as an abstraction of a person. BUT... there's a lot of time before one dies and there are worse ways to fill up the time. And seeing things from an "it's all emotions because: amygdala duh" perspective allows me to interpret exchanges and participate in them, speaking the lingua franca if I must but generally, coming at things from my own strange perspective and seeing how it reflects, gets absrbed or thrown up back in my face by other people who are intelligent and can help broaden my view of the world. There's hazing in this club. But if you get past getting pantsed a few times in front of the pretty girl, and the occasional group smack-down, head-in the ropes, chair on head moments... you're quickly one-of-the-gang. I go back to ancient Usenet long-post days, when you composed long responses to things. Mailing lists, dialup. You composed, connected, uploaded. Twitter + txting changed it all and by '06 and everybody followed suit. So short became the new norm. I can do short. But I like to fill up space. Bullshit: Well, that doesn't mean ti's wrong. Bullshit doesn't mean wrong really. It means while there is a lot of good and true and wise and strong there's also equal amounts of hand-waving, perfectly valid logic that ends up with woefully wrong conclusions, and all of the normal trappings of all human communication: misunderstandings due to people speaking from different perspectives. But it's worth it. The gems make it worth it. It's not "all bullshit", no. But there's some wherever you go. It's a good thing, honestly. Any system that is too perfect has unseen flaws that aren't being looked at. But that's my bias. I could be wrong here. I still love it. I find identifying my biases helpful in reducing miscommunications. I don't yet believe in perfection. Tried. Wanted to. Never found it. Always a fatal flaw somewhere. I'm like that with everything. With myself. I walk on a concrete balcony that's 12 stories up and the first thing I notice is "how much is it vibrating? How thick is the concrete? How OLD is that rebar?" and I never allow myself to rest comfortably on any surface, no matter how perfect the engineering was. So it's my bias. Platonic ideals there's no much room for in me. I want them of course but there's always a crack somewhere and I'm always drawn to them. Philosophy - she doesn't have to be perfect for me to love it. Maybe she is and I'm inventing imaginary flaws that aren't really there based on a set of assumptions on my part. I don't know. But I'll back you up: Philosophy is not bullshit. Philosophy is a beautiful thing. And it is. I want to thank you though. Your encouragement got me to write, and one of my motives for such length writing (and participation) is to help clarify my thoughts on subjects by bouncing them off of people. So even if we are not soul-friends in fullest dedication to love of Philosophy, you have my deepest appreciation for teasing thoughts out of me I might not otherwise known I had. It helps me build my own Philosophy further and I save my writings for future use. Wouldn't have written it all if it wasn't for your presence. Thanks