2024-08-03 In my last phlog I asserted that any computer that couldn't run a modern browser and render youtube would be what I would consider old and more challenging to use. I've already got some great feedback from a fellow SDF member. I won't replicate the entire post so you guys can read it here: gopher://sdf.org:70/0/users/gallowsgryph/phlog/2024-08-03_OCC_and_youtube.txt Based on that post I wanted to explore a little more into whether rendering youtube is a good benchmark for whether a computer is old and challenging to use (as I asserted) in my original post. youtube is the #2 most popular website in the world according to some random wikipedia table that I googled for. Speaking of which google itself is #1 according to that same table. (as an aside, could there be 2 more different philosophies of websites owned by the same company?) If we wanted to take an easy way out, we could leave it at that. If your computer can't render the #2 most popular website in the world, then it can be classified as old and challenging to use day-to-day. But let's explore deeper than that. I stated in my original post that I thought youtube would be a great proxy for the modern javascript heavy web. Is that actually true though? Does youtube accurately represent the modern web we interact with day-to-day? or is it just a singularly terrible website that just so happens to be extremely popular and isn't really representative of the web as a whole. In other words, am I too easily calling computers old and challenging just because they can't render youtube alone? Can we shop, bank, communicate, and do everything we need to do on the modern web aside from youtube on old computers? That's a really good question. gallowsgryph mentioned issues with facebook rendering on pretty modern 2023 hardware (although low-end) which could mean under my benchmark, I'd be classifying that computer as "old and challenging." It may be challenging but it's definitely not old. facebook itself is famously bloated. In fact a lot of social networking sites are quite bloated and challenging to render...but they are also some of the most popular websites on the internet. Is amazon.com a more realistic target? Amazon is famously disorganized and does have a bunch of crap on its pages...but it also has has a clearer profit motive to have things render fast enough and compatible enough to get everyone to the checkout page as fast as possible. Office 365 online is a bloated terror (especially Teams) but it is a major productivity web-app that millions of people use every day. what about gmail or the google office suite. Of course, at the end of the day what one considers old and challenging to use day-to-day use is extremely personal and based on what you actually do day-to-day. Web-surfing is also very personal. A person who is on old.reddit and hackernews (and SDF :-P) and never uses youtube or facebook or a million of these other bloated websites won't find computers I define as "old and challenging" to be that way at all. Extra edit: One of the retro-computing youtube channels I often watch is Action Retro. In his retro computing challenges he often uses running Minecraft as sort of a goal for the retro computer. Is that a better or worse benchmark? Hard to say. My current daily driver laptop from 2011 struggles to run minecraft but easily renders youtube in firefox all day long. But then again, minecraft is a 3d game that takes advantage of gpu performance which my laptop clearly lacks. but then again, again. A lot of genuinely retro computers have specialized hardware that allows them to do amazing things like real-time video/audio editing that my supposedly much more advanced and newer computer completely sucks at. but anyways, that's what makes retro-computing such a fun hobby.