17-Jan-2001 23:39:36 -0800,1585;000000000000
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From: Joe Smith <Joe.Smith@wcom.com>
To: tops-20@panda.com
Subject: Mentioned on SlashDot: GCC backend for PDP-10 being developed.
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I expect a lot more hits on http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/ as a result of
this posting.
http://slashdot.org/articles/01/01/17/1315253.shtml
PDP-10 Revival
Posted by Hemos on January 17, @04:58PM from the going-/way/-back dept.
Lars Brinkhoff writes: "Remember the PDP-10 mainframe, the machine that ran
the first version of EMACS and helped foster the Free Software movement? Now
a company called XKL, LCC is funding a PDP-10 port of GCC. There's also a
project to create a PDP-10 processor in an FPGA."
--
Joe Smith WorldCom, Global Data Network Ops, Product Technical Support
UNIX and Tech Sup: TYMNET Network, Xstream Packet Services (Public X.25)
<Joe.Smith@wcom.com> 2560 N 1st St, MS-5046/746, San Jose, CA 95131
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24-Jan-2001 16:30:54 -0800,2426;000000000000
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:27:32 -0800
From: Joe Smith <Joe.Smith@wcom.com>
To: tops-20@panda.com
Subject: The other (1st) 36-bit article on SlashDot
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----- Forwarded message from Stephane Tsacas <Stephane.Tsacas@curie.fr> -----
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From: Stephane Tsacas <Stephane.Tsacas>
To: tops-20@panda.com
Subject: `PDP-10 Revival''
Hi all,
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/01/17/1315253&mode=thread
<<
Posted by Hemos on Wednesday January 17, @04:58PM from the going-/way/-back dept.
Lars Brinkhoff writes: "Remember the PDP-10 mainframe, the machine
that ran the first version of EMACS and helped foster the Free
Software movement? Now a company called XKL, LCC is funding a PDP-10
port of GCC. There's also a project to create a PDP-10 processor in
an FPGA."
>>
With links to :
http://pdp10.nocrew.org/
http://neil.franklin.ch/Projects/PDP-10/
Enjoy !
,
Stephane Tsacas
--
Stephane.Tsacas Stephane Tsacas, Institut Curie
@curie.fr 11 rue Pierre et Marie Curie
http://www.curie.fr 75005 Paris, France
PUSHJ P, POPJ P recursively +33 (0)1 42 34 6501 / 6758 (Fax)
--DAA25106.979786326/mailhost.curie.fr--
----- End forwarded message -----
7-Mar-2001 10:24:19 -0800,2414;000000000000
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From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gustavo_K=F6hler?=" <athena@satlink.com>
To: <jsmith@inwap.com>
Subject: Question...
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:20:13 -0300
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Hi Joe,
I am looking for head replacement for the RM03 (sorry, ...the glorious
RM03!)
Do you know where can I find used parts for it on internet?
Or, better, do you know the "market" nominal price for the head?
I'm trying to fix one of them still working in a Decsystem 20
By the way, I worked 20 years with DEC machines and peripherals (PDP 8 and
RK05 was my computer and disk at college, but I can certify I'm not a
dinosaur!)
Thanx a lot!
>From Bahia Blanca, Argentina (SouthAmerica), Best regards!!
Gustavo Kvhler
Engineer
2-May-2001 17:28:01 -0700,6771;000000000000
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Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 19:22:35 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <200105030022.TAA15555@hendrix.amd.com>
From: "Clive Dawson" <clive.dawson@amd.com>
To: tops-20@panda.com
Subject: DECWorld 2001
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Hi Folks,
I've gotten a few copies of this announcement (which has also been posted
on alt.sys.pdp10).
I'm thinking that if anybody is interested in holding the (belated)
36th Anniversary Celebration of 36-Bit DEC Computers, this would
provide as good an excuse as any. Note that the 30th Anniversary
reunion was held in Washington DC in 1995, so there *is* precedent for
being a year late...! ;-)
I've already suggested that a 36-Bit B.O.F. Session be held during the
main event on Saturday. Perhaps we could organize a 36-Bit dinner on
Friday night? Maybe we can find out once and for all what became of
Stanford's PDP-6 which was donated to the Computer Museum in 1984!
Whether decide to do anything or not, I'll most likely be attending
the event. It would be good to hear from anybody else with similar
intentions. If we achieve critical mass, we can start planning.
Warm regards to all who are still out there somewhere...
Clive Dawson
Manager, Systems Engineering
Microprocessor Design Division
Advanced Micro Devices
Austin, TX
------- Start of forwarded message -------
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:38:09 -0700
From: Jennifer <decworld@computerhistory.org>
Subject: Computer Museum History Center announces DecWorld 2001
X-Sender: office@mail.lanlogic.net
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Cc: decworld@computerhistory.org
The Computer Museum History Center presents
DECWORLD 2001
"What Made Digital Great"
DATE: Saturday, June 16, 2001
TIME: 9:30am - 10:00pm
PLACE: The Computer Museum History Center
Moffett Field, Mountain View, California, USA
DONATION: $125 per person
(to cover the cost of lunch, dinner, and snacks)
Space is limited to 300 people, the capacity of the Auditorium.
RSVP/Advance Registration REQUIRED due to NASA badging regulations
For more information and to register, visit
www.computerhistory.org/decworld or email
decworld@computerhistory.org.
The purposes of the Conference are:
a) to have fun
b) to bring together people who took part in the
rise of Digital Equipment Corporation who will hear and
contribute stories that will become part of the Museum's
permanent archive of the history of computing
c) to share Digital's greatness with non-Digital people who would like to
understand the unique social phenomenon that was Digital Equipment
Corporation.
Leading the panel sessions will be Digital alumni including
Gordon Bell, Barry Cioffi, Dick Clayton, Jake Jacobs, Ed Kramer,
Richie Lary, Grant Saviers, Pat Mullen, Jack Smith, Bud Hyler,
Bob Supnik and YOU (see the website for an updated list of
panelists).
TENTATIVE SCHEDULE
Friday, June 15
- Evening informal gathering at the Marriott Hotel
Saturday, June 16
8:30am - Continental breakfast at NASA Ames Main Auditorium
9:30am - 5:15pm - Conference, Show-and-Tell, and lunch
Three audience-interactive panel presentations will cover the
Digital story from 1957 to 1992. "Birds of a Feather" sessions will
be held, artifacts and memorabilia will be on display, and roving
recorders will invite alumni to record their stories.
5:15pm - 6:30pm - Museum Reception
7:30pm -10pm - Banquet at Marriott & keynotes by Ed Schein and Win Hindle
All attendees will be encouraged to share recollections during
panel discussions and breaks, and will be offered the opportunity
to contribute to Museum archives through interviews with roving
recorders.
THE PANEL SESSIONS
- DEC organization: From start-up to the birth of product lines (1957-1969)
Technology era: Transistor modules to the PDP-10
Customers: researchers, universities, & hackers
- DEC organization: Product lines in full force (1970-1980)
Technology era: Integrated circuit PDP8i and PDP-11 through VAX 11/780
Customers: Engineering, manufacturing, & creation of ISVs
- DEC organization: Taking on IBM (1980-1992)
Technology era: LSI, VLSI, VAX and MicroVAX systems, Alpha
Customers: Fortune 1000
INVITATION TO CONTRIBUTE
1) Show-and-Tell
Attendees are invited to display personal DEC memorabilia
during lunch. To make arrangements for display space, please
e-mail decworld@computerhistory.org
2) Tell Your Story and Picture Presentation
If you have images of DEC memorabilia, staff photos, artifacts,
favorite quotes relating to DEC, etc., your material may be
included in an evening slide show. Each image must be sent in
advance of the conference. Attendees are also invited to share
their DEC-related stories. Please send your story or inquire
about contributing at decworld@computerhistory.org.
3) DEC Item Donations
As the holder of the largest collection of computing-related
artifacts, The Computer Museum History Center seeks additional
material to support its exceptional DEC collection. If you would
like to participate in this donation opportunity, please make
arrangements in advance by emailing
decworld@computerhistory.org. The Museum will be announcing
new DEC- related donations at DECWORLD 2001.
4) Volunteer and Event Support
Prior to the conference, the Museum is looking for volunteers to
assist in various planning capacities. If you have time and skill to
donate, please contact Lou Greer at +1 408 266 6674 or Karen
Mathews at +1 650 604 2568.
For more information and to register, contact:
DECWORLD 2001
The Computer Museum History Center
Building T12-A
Moffett Field, CA 94035, USA
+1 650 604 2579
decworld@computerhistory.org
www.computerhistory.org/decworld
------- End of Forwarded Message
3-May-2001 05:54:51 -0700,1996;000000000000
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To: "Clive Dawson" <clive.dawson@amd.com>
Cc: tops-20@panda.com
Subject: Re: DECWorld 2001
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 May 2001 19:22:35 CDT."
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 08:52:12 -0400
From: "Dr. Thomas.Blinn@Compaq.com" <tpb@doctor.zk3.dec.com>
X-Mts: smtp
Hi, Clive. Nice to see your name on an e-mail again..
I like the idea; I've been thinking of making some excuse to go out to
this event. I think it would be fun. And having a 36-bit reason to be
there would enhance it all the more.
Tom
17-May-2001 11:27:13 -0700,663;000000000000
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From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Sender: Mark Crispin <mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
Subject: 18 years ago today...
To: TOPS-20 Hackers and Yackers <TOPS-20@Panda.COM>
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On May 17, 1983 DEC decided to kill the PDP-10. It was on that day that DEC
made its final transformation from a special one-of-a-kind entity into just
another computer company.
17-May-2001 12:02:46 -0700,1173;000000000000
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From: Ken Rossman - NYC SE <Ken.Rossman@east.sun.com>
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Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:04:08 -0400 (EDT)
To: MRC@Panda.COM
Cc: TOPS-20@Panda.COM
Subject: 18 years ago today...
Mark Crispin writes:
> On May 17, 1983 DEC decided to kill the PDP-10. It was on that day that
> DEC made its final transformation from a special one-of-a-kind entity into
> just another computer company.
And, of course, look where they are now... :-)
8-Jun-2001 09:59:36 -0700,3674;000000000000
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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:49:22 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <200106081649.LAA23950@hendrix.amd.com>
From: "Clive Dawson" <clive.dawson@amd.com>
To: tops-20@panda.com
Subject: 36-BIT DINNER AT DECWORLD 2001
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36TH(*) ANNIVERSARY BANQUET
IN CELEBRATION OF
DIGITAL'S 36-BIT ARCHITECTURE
(* SLIGHTLY BELATED)
On the occasion of the DECWORLD 2001 event being sponsored by the
Computer Museum History Center on Saturday, June 16, 2001,
(http://www.computerhistory.org/decworld) a Chinese banquet will
be held to celebrate the 36th Anniversary of Digital's 36-bit
architecture. The actual anniversary took place last year with
little notice, but we intend to correct this oversight!
All former DEC employees, customers, friends and aficionados of
-- the PDP-6, DECSystem-10, and DECSYSTEM-20 computers,
-- the TOPS-10, TOPS-20, TENEX, SAIL, and ITS operating systems
-- all the cousins and other decendants from Foonly, Systems
Concepts and XKL
are cordially invited to attend. Note that this event is independent
of DECWORLD 2001, so you are welcome to participate even if you are
not attending the Saturday event.
We will gather at 7:30PM, Friday, June 15, 2001 at:
Mandarin Classic Restaurant
397 Main Street (corner of 1st St.)
Los Altos, CA
(See directions below.)
The price will be $21, not including beverages.
Please come prepared to reunite with old friends, as well as share
memorabilia, humor, war stories and other legends from the 36-bit era.
We will need a firm head count by June 13, so kindly RSVP via e-mail
to Clive Dawson: clive.dawson "at" amd.com. NOTE THAT IF YOU SIGN UP,
YOU ARE MAKING A COMMITMENT TO PAY FOR DINNER, since we will be
responsible for payment based on the count we submit.
Hope to see you there!
Clive Dawson and Les Earnest
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
DIRECTIONS:
From the 101 Freeway, exit on San Antonio Road in Palo Alto heading
away from the Bay. After about 3.3 miles turn right on Main Street,
which angles off to the right. Go four more blocks and see the
Mandarin Classic on the corner on your left.
From 280 Freeway, exit on El Monte Road in Los Altos Hills heading
toward the Bay. At the fourth traffic light turn left on Foothill
Expressway. After two blocks turn right on Main street. One short
block and you will see the Mandarin Classic on your right.
16-Jun-2001 01:44:36 -0700,2147;000000000000
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Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 01:40:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Smith <inwap@best.com>
Message-Id: <200106160840.BAA29369@shell3.ba.best.com>
To: tops-20@panda.com
Subject: Pictures from the "36th Anniversary" dinner.
> 36TH(*) ANNIVERSARY BANQUET
> IN CELEBRATION OF
> DIGITAL'S 36-BIT ARCHITECTURE
>
> (* SLIGHTLY BELATED)
>
>On the occasion of the DECWORLD 2001 event being sponsored by the
>Computer Museum History Center on Saturday, June 16, 2001,
>(http://www.computerhistory.org/decworld) a Chinese banquet will
>be held to celebrate the 36th Anniversary of Digital's 36-bit
>architecture. The actual anniversary took place last year with
>little notice, but we intend to correct this oversight!
>
>All former DEC employees, customers, friends and aficionados of
>
> -- the PDP-6, DECSystem-10, and DECSYSTEM-20 computers,
> -- the TOPS-10, TOPS-20, TENEX, SAIL, and ITS operating systems
> -- all the cousins and other decendants from Foonly, Systems
> Concepts and XKL
>
>are cordially invited to attend. Note that this event is independent
>of DECWORLD 2001, so you are welcome to participate even if you are
>not attending the Saturday event.
>
>We will gather at 7:30PM, Friday, June 15, 2001 at:
>
> Mandarin Classic Restaurant
> 397 Main Street (corner of 1st St.)
> Los Altos, CA
>
>Please come prepared to reunite with old friends, as well as share
>memorabilia, humor, war stories and other legends from the 36-bit era.
>
>Clive Dawson and Les Earnest
Pictures from the dinner have been posted at
http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/36th/
-Joe
8-Aug-2001 05:44:34 -0700,1761;000000000000
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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:50:20 -0700
From: Rich Alderson <ALDERSON@mathom.xkl.com>
Subject: UP2LNG BUGHLT on Mathom.XKL.COM!
To: tops-20@panda.com
Message-ID: <13665248203.12.ALDERSON@mathom.xkl.com>
The following is a portion of the console log of Mathom.XKL.COM, wherein the
very first ever recorded UP2LNG BUGHLT occurred early today:
01-08-07-02:22:26 ********************
01-08-07-02:22:27 *BUG BUGINF: "NODDMP" at 7-Aug-2001 02:26:18
01-08-07-02:22:27 *DDMP fork blocked
01-08-07-02:22:27 * Data: DDPDUE=2
01-08-07-02:22:27 ********************
01-08-07-02:22:27 $11B>>HLTAD0/ XCT HLTADR BUGHLT/ UPDTCK+4
01-08-07-10:27:14 UPDTCK+4/ XCT UP2LNG todclk[ 377777,,777763
01-08-07-10:34:21 up2lng?
01-08-07-10:34:23 APRSRV G
01-08-07-10:34:24
01-08-07-10:36:03 tadidt[ 145022,,554057
01-08-07-10:38:23
01-08-07-10:38:24 1[ 17,,500000
01-08-07-10:39:10 updtck/ RDTIME T1
01-08-07-10:39:16 UPDTCK+1/ DSUB T1,TIMBAS
01-08-07-10:39:16 UPDTCK+2/ SKIPL T1
01-08-07-10:39:17 UPDTCK+3/ CAML T1,BASDIV
01-08-07-10:39:17 UPDTCK+4/ XCT UP2LNG
01-08-07-10:39:18 UPDTCK+5/ DIV T1,BASDIV
01-08-07-10:39:27
01-08-07-10:39:27 timbas[ 3760,,404262
01-08-07-10:39:34 TIMBAS+1[ 20140,,464000
01-08-07-10:39:41 1[ 17,,500000
01-08-07-10:39:42 2[ 243,,730000
01-08-07-10:39:49 basdiv[ 17,,500000
01-08-07-10:40:18
01-08-07-10:40:29
01-08-07-10:40:29 XKL-1>halt
01-08-07-10:40:32 XKL-1%b
The translation of the re-boot time above (TADIDT) is
!dd
DDT
1[ 0 .priou
2[ 0 145022,,554057
odtim$x
5-Jul-2000 10:04:00<>
^Z
!
Rich Alderson
Mgr., SysAdmin
XKL LLC
-------
13-Nov-2001 11:38:52 -0800,3403;000000000000
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Date: 13 Nov 2001 19:34:16 -0000
Message-ID: <20011113193416.25233.qmail@brouhaha.com>
From: Eric Smith <eric@brouhaha.com>
To: its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu, its-hackers@cosmic.com, tops-20@panda.com
Subject: M8915 or M8915-YA bit fiddler wanted, and KS10 prints and manual
I apologize if this is slightly off topic...
I'm trying to bring up a KS10. Eventually I hope to bring up a 2065,
but I'm using the KS10 as a sort of "sanity test": if I can't make a
KS10 work, there's no point in trying to run the 2065.
I received only the KS10 CPU, without any peripherals. But I was quite
happy to get it, as the peripherals are much more commonly available.
The CPU was missing the front panel and the the RH11 Massbus adapter
from the BA11 box (used for the tape drive). I didn't get the original
disk or tape drives with it either, but I do have some RP06 disk drives
and some TE16, TU77, and TU78 drives from other systems.
I don't have a TU45, but I think a TE16 or TU77 should work as well,
because they use the same formatter. I'm told that the TU77 and TU78
are too fast for a KS10. I can maybe imagine that a TU78 in 6250 would
cause problems, but it seems unlikely to me that a TU77 or TU78 at 1600
would, as that is only 200K bytes per second, which is at most
100K Unibus 18-bit transfers per second, vs. 60K transfers per second
for the TU45. Even a lowly PDP-11 can handle that.
Anyhow, I'll try the TE16 first, and it is only 45 IPS, vs. 75 IPS for
the normal TU45.
The problem is that all of my tape drives except the TU78s came from
PDP-11 systems, so the TM03 formatters have the M8906 16-bit bit fiddler
rather than the M8915 or M8915-YA "universal" bit fiddlers. I've checked
with a few resellers, and none of them have the M8915 or M8915-YA.
Does anyone here have spares that they'd be willing to sell or trade?
If all else fails, I'll try to build one, but I'd rather not go to that
much trouble if I can avoid it.
Johnny Eriksson emailed me a wiring diagram for the front panel, so I think
I've got all of the hardware I need other than the bit fiddler.
If anyone has a KS10 maintenance print set and/or the KS10-Based
DECSYSTEM-2020 Technical Manual, I'd like to borrow them to scan for
www.36bit.org.
As of yesterday I finally have a replacement lamp assembly for my Ricoh
IS520 high-speed scanner, so I intend to resume scanning the TOPS-10 and
TOPS-20 software notebooks. I originally tried to do this with an HP
ScanJet 3c, which did a good job but took about 30 seconds per image
(two images to a double-sided page). Part of that is because my scanner
software wasn't smart enough to tell the sheet feeder to eject the previous
page and load the next page at the same time, but even with smarter software
the HP is just too slow. The Ricoh was much more expensive (even used),
but can scan 15 images per minute at 400 dpi.
If there are specific volumes or manuals from the Software Notebooks
that anyone needs, let me know and I'll put them at the head of the
queue.
Thanks!
Eric
13-Nov-2001 11:39:50 -0800,1367;000000000000
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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:39:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Guy Steele - Sun Microsystems Labs <gls@labean.East.Sun.COM>
Reply-To: Guy Steele - Sun Microsystems Labs <gls@labean.East.Sun.COM>
Subject: PDP-3 documentation?
To: its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu, its-hackers@cosmic.com, tops-20@panda.com,
eric@brouhaha.com
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This may be slightly off-topic, but can anyone tell me
where to find information on the reputed "paper-only"
design for the DEC PDP-3? (Or the PDP-2, while I'm at it.)
--Guy Steele
13-Nov-2001 11:48:32 -0800,1776;000000000000
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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:45:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: PDP-3 documentation?
From: "Eric Smith" <eric@brouhaha.com>
To: <gls@labean.East.Sun.COM>
In-Reply-To: <200111131939.OAA23413@labean.East.Sun.COM>
References: <200111131939.OAA23413@labean.East.Sun.COM>
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> This may be slightly off-topic, but can anyone tell me
> where to find information on the reputed "paper-only"
> design for the DEC PDP-3? (Or the PDP-2, while I'm at it.)
Al Kossow and I recently asked Gordon Bell, and he said that the PDP-2
wasn't actually designed. For the PDP-3, they at least had a
preliminary spec, but I don't know whether they designed the circuitry.
It's essentially just a double-width PDP-1.
Al Kossow has a .PDF file of the PDP-3 preliminary spec on his web site:
http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp3/
13-Nov-2001 13:28:12 -0800,2607;000000000000
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Subject: RE: PDP-3 documentation?
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:26:19 -0500
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Thread-Topic: PDP-3 documentation?
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From: "Ed Schwalenberg" <ed@basistech.com>
To: "Eric Smith" <eric@brouhaha.com>, <gls@labean.East.Sun.COM>
Cc: <its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu>, <its-hackers@cosmic.com>, <tops-20@panda.com>,
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VGhlcmUncyBhIGJvb2sgY2FsbGVkICJDb21wdXRlciBFbmdpbmVlcmluZy4gQSBERUMgVmlldyBv
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13-Nov-2001 18:16:52 -0800,1503;000000000000
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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:11:31 -0500
To: Eric Smith <eric@brouhaha.com>, its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu,
its-hackers@cosmic.com, tops-20@panda.com
From: John Wroclawski <jtw@lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: M8915 or M8915-YA bit fiddler wanted, and KS10 prints and
manual
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
At 7:34 PM +0000 11/13/01, Eric Smith wrote:
>I apologize if this is slightly off topic...
>
>I don't have a TU45, but I think a TE16 or TU77 should work as well,
>because they use the same formatter. I'm told that the TU77 and TU78
>are too fast for a KS10. I can maybe imagine that a TU78 in 6250 would
>cause problems [...]
For what it's worth we had a TU77 on a KS at MIT. I _think_ we had a
TU78 working successfully with a KS as well, but those particular
neurons seem to have maybe gone a little flakey.
Cheers,
-john
13-Nov-2001 19:10:40 -0800,1755;000000000000
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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:09:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Austein <sra@hactrn.net>
Sender: Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: Re: M8915 or M8915-YA bit fiddler wanted, and KS10 prints and manual
To: TOPS-20 Hackers and Yackers <TOPS-20@Panda.COM>
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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:11:31 -0500
From: John Wroclawski <jtw@lcs.mit.edu>
For what it's worth we had a TU77 on a KS at MIT. I _think_ we had a
TU78 working successfully with a KS as well, but those particular
neurons seem to have maybe gone a little flakey.
The TU77 definitely worked.
I don't think we ever got the TU78 working, but that was pretty late
in the PDP-10 era at MIT (the TU78 was obtained by salvaging it from
XX's cooling remains after the wake). I don't recall whether we ran
into a seriously intractable problem getting the TU78 running on BLT
or it was just taking so long that it became obvious that we were
going to run out of RP06 packs before we ever got the TU78 working.
13-Nov-2001 19:40:32 -0800,2392;000000000000
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From: "Christopher Zach" <czach@computer.org>
To: <its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu>, <its-hackers@cosmic.com>, <tops-20@panda.com>,
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References: <20011114024529.BC51B1B49@thrintun.hactrn.net>
Subject: Re: M8915 or M8915-YA bit fiddler wanted, and KS10 prints and manual
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:35:35 -0500
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The TU78 is not supported by the KS10 for boot purposes. Reason is it uses a
very different formatter from the TM02/TM03 formatters used in the TU45 and
TU77.
I have a pair of 77's; still working out that control bus parity error :-)
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Austein" <sra@hactrn.net>
To: <its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu>; <its-hackers@cosmic.com>;
<tops-20@panda.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: M8915 or M8915-YA bit fiddler wanted, and KS10 prints and
manual
> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:11:31 -0500
> From: John Wroclawski <jtw@lcs.mit.edu>
>
> For what it's worth we had a TU77 on a KS at MIT. I _think_ we had a
> TU78 working successfully with a KS as well, but those particular
> neurons seem to have maybe gone a little flakey.
>
> The TU77 definitely worked.
>
> I don't think we ever got the TU78 working, but that was pretty late
> in the PDP-10 era at MIT (the TU78 was obtained by salvaging it from
> XX's cooling remains after the wake). I don't recall whether we ran
> into a seriously intractable problem getting the TU78 running on BLT
> or it was just taking so long that it became obvious that we were
> going to run out of RP06 packs before we ever got the TU78 working.
>
>
13-Nov-2001 19:41:37 -0800,2252;000000000000
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From: "Christopher Zach" <czach@computer.org>
To: "Eric Smith" <eric@brouhaha.com>, <its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu>,
<its-hackers@cosmic.com>, <tops-20@panda.com>,
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References: <20011113193416.25233.qmail@brouhaha.com> <p05100307b817825a647b@[192.168.0.179]>
Subject: Re: M8915 or M8915-YA bit fiddler wanted, and KS10 prints and manual
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:37:48 -0500
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Yep, AI's TU77 is in the computer room here at the house.
It's flaked, but I am working on it. Slow job as tracing problems with the
Massbus can drive one to tears.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wroclawski" <jtw@lcs.mit.edu>
To: "Eric Smith" <eric@brouhaha.com>; <its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu>;
<its-hackers@cosmic.com>; <tops-20@panda.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: M8915 or M8915-YA bit fiddler wanted, and KS10 prints and
manual
> At 7:34 PM +0000 11/13/01, Eric Smith wrote:
> >I apologize if this is slightly off topic...
> >
> >I don't have a TU45, but I think a TE16 or TU77 should work as well,
> >because they use the same formatter. I'm told that the TU77 and TU78
> >are too fast for a KS10. I can maybe imagine that a TU78 in 6250 would
> >cause problems [...]
>
> For what it's worth we had a TU77 on a KS at MIT. I _think_ we had a
> TU78 working successfully with a KS as well, but those particular
> neurons seem to have maybe gone a little flakey.
>
> Cheers,
> -john
>
>
13-Nov-2001 20:13:53 -0800,1495;000000000000
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To: John Wroclawski <jtw@lcs.mit.edu>
Cc: Eric Smith <eric@brouhaha.com>, its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu,
its-hackers@cosmic.com, tops-20@panda.com
Subject: Re: M8915 or M8915-YA bit fiddler wanted, and KS10 prints and manual
References: <20011113193416.25233.qmail@brouhaha.com> <p05100307b817825a647b@[192.168.0.179]>
From: rs@seastrom.com (Robert E. Seastrom)
Date: 13 Nov 2001 23:11:00 -0500
In-Reply-To: John Wroclawski's message of "Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:11:31 -0500"
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John Wroclawski <jtw@lcs.mit.edu> writes:
> For what it's worth we had a TU77 on a KS at MIT. I _think_ we had a
> TU78 working successfully with a KS as well, but those particular
> neurons seem to have maybe gone a little flakey.
My recollection is that the TA78 in question was connected to HTVAX,
not to AI or MC. I believe that (when I was around) it was considered
too fast, the same way that the RP07 was.
---Rob
14-Nov-2001 05:55:47 -0800,2295;000000000000
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Subject: RE: PDP-3 documentation?
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:54:09 -0500
Message-ID: <3ED686A715B54646AF1BC06C2BFBA4A056BA56@kita.basistech.net>
Thread-Topic: PDP-3 documentation?
Thread-Index: AcFse8xFFioXmzCTTV663owOyd5p6QADR3KK
From: "Ed Schwalenberg" <ed@basistech.com>
To: "Eric Smith" <eric@brouhaha.com>, <gls@labean.East.Sun.COM>
Cc: <its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu>, <its-hackers@cosmic.com>, <tops-20@panda.com>,
<@brouhaha.com>
My apologies to the list for my previous shot at this, which went out
in a format that many mail readers can't handle. Here's a more vanilla
version:
There's a book called "Computer Engineering. A DEC View of Hardware
Systems Design" by C. Gordon Bell, J. Craig Mudge and John E. McNamara
that discusses the PDP-x for all values of x less than 16. It appears
to be online at CMU's Universal Library (
http://www.ulib.org/webRoot/Books/Saving_Bell_Books/Computer_Engineering
/ ).
It doesn't have the level of detail that the spec Eric has found,
though.
-Ed.
-----Original Message-----=20
From: Eric Smith=20
Sent: Tue 11/13/2001 2:45 PM=20
To: gls@labean.East.Sun.COM=20
Cc: its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu; its-hackers@cosmic.com;
tops-20@panda.com; @brouhaha.com=20
Subject: Re: PDP-3 documentation?
> This may be slightly off-topic, but can anyone tell me
> where to find information on the reputed "paper-only"
> design for the DEC PDP-3? (Or the PDP-2, while I'm at it.)
Al Kossow and I recently asked Gordon Bell, and he said that the PDP-2
wasn't actually designed. For the PDP-3, they at least had a
preliminary spec, but I don't know whether they designed the circuitry.
It's essentially just a double-width PDP-1.
Al Kossow has a .PDF file of the PDP-3 preliminary spec on his web site:
http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp3/
14-Nov-2001 13:59:24 -0800,5756;000000000000
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:58:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Guy Steele - Sun Microsystems Labs <gls@labean.East.Sun.COM>
Reply-To: Guy Steele - Sun Microsystems Labs <gls@labean.East.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: PDP-3 documentation?
To: gls@labean.East.Sun.COM, eric@brouhaha.com
Cc: its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu, its-hackers@cosmic.com, tops-20@panda.com
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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:45:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: PDP-3 documentation?
From: "Eric Smith" <eric@brouhaha.com>
To: <gls@labean.East.Sun.COM>
Cc: <its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu>, <its-hackers@cosmic.com>,
<tops-20@panda.com>, <@brouhaha.com>
> This may be slightly off-topic, but can anyone tell me
> where to find information on the reputed "paper-only"
> design for the DEC PDP-3? (Or the PDP-2, while I'm at it.)
Al Kossow and I recently asked Gordon Bell, and he said that the PDP-2
wasn't actually designed. For the PDP-3, they at least had a
preliminary spec, but I don't know whether they designed the circuitry.
It's essentially just a double-width PDP-1.
Al Kossow has a .PDF file of the PDP-3 preliminary spec on his web site:
http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp3/
Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is what I have been searching for,
for (literally) 25 years.
I'll indulge myself by providing here a brief summary of what I discovered,
since it may be of some interest to those who like the PDP-6 and PDP-10.
Yes, the PDP-3 is in a strong sense a double-width PDP-1. It has 36-bit
words where the PDP-1 has 18-bit words. The PDP-1 instruction format
is 5-bit opcode, 1 indirect bit, 12-bit address; the PDP-3 instruction
format is 6-bit opcode, 1 indirect bit (I), 2 bits unused, 9 bits of index
register specifier (X), and 18 bits of base address (Y).
(Actually, the preliminary spec says something along the lines of "addresses
are 15 bits, but we could expand it to 18-bit addresses if we wanted".)
An analysis of the opcodes shows that the instruction sets are almost
identical; in fact, the sixth bit of PDP-3 opcode goes virtually unused,
at least according to the preliminary specification. (The one exception
is that in the PDP-1, the "indirect bit" distinguishes right shifts from
left shifts; in the PDP-3 the sixth opcode bit does that.)
The PDP-3 omits the PDP-1 instructions xct, cal, jda, dzm, idx, isp, and law,
and the jsp instructions behaves in a slightly different manner. Four new
instructions lir, dia, spx, and snx deal with the new index registers.
The PDP-1 instructions dap (deposit into address part) and dip (deposit
into instruction part) store into the low 12 bits and the high 6 bits of
a memory word, respectively; on the PDP-3 they store into the low 18 bits
and the high 18 bits.
The first 512 locations of memory, except location 0, are also index
registers. Most arithmetic instructions operate on the (single) accumulator
and a memory location. The memory location is identified by (I,X,Y) just
as on a PDP-6 or PDP-10; in particular, you can have any number of levels
of indirection, and every indirection step can also be indexed. Three
instructions have an X field but treat the indicated index register more
as an accumulator. The lir instruction loads the immediate value Y into
(the low 18 bits of) register X; spx and snx add the immediate value Y to
(the low 18 bits of) register X, then skip if (the low half of) X is now
positive or negative, respectively.
There's also a place in the sequence break (interrupt) mechanism where
the PC and another 18-bit register are stored together as a single word.
So I don't want to commit the fallacy of "post hoc ergo propter hoc";
I will content myself with observing that a number of beloved characteristics
of the PDP-6 and PDP-10 also appeared in perhaps more primitive form in the
PDP-3:
36-bit words
operations on 18-bit halfwords
using locations 1 through 2**N-1 as index registers
indefinite indirection with indexing at each step
In some sense, a PDP-6 can be made out of a PDP-3 by reducing the X field
from 9 bits to 4 bits, sliding the I bit over, adding a matching 4-bit
A field (that's the crucial step)---and then using the remaining 9-bit opcode
field for a *completely* revamped instruction set! (Oh, and changing the
arithmetic from 1's-complement to 2's-complement. Note that the PDP-3
indexing mechanism uses 1's-complement addition. The first DEC machine to
feature a 2's-complement add instruction was the PDP-4, and the PDP-5 pretty
much committed itself to 2's-complement arithmetic, if I am not mistaken.
The ADD and TAD instructions lived on side by side in the -7, -9, and -15,
and the LINC side of the PDP-12 had 1's-complement arithmetic; otherwise,
all later DEC machines used 2's-complement arithmetic exclusively, I believe.)
--Guy
15-Nov-2001 11:44:33 -0800,3584;000000000000
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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:44:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Guy Steele - Sun Microsystems Labs <gls@labean.East.Sun.COM>
Reply-To: Guy Steele - Sun Microsystems Labs <gls@labean.East.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: PDP-3 documentation?
To: dgc@spies.com
Cc: Guy.Steele@east.sun.com, its-lovers@mc.lcs.mit.edu, its-hackers@cosmic.com,
tops-20@panda.com
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:24:08 -0800
From: Dave Conroy <dgc@spies.com>
To: gls@labean.East.Sun.COM
Subject: Re: PDP-3 documentation?
The pdp-3 shifts also look like they take a shift
count from the low 6 bits, unlike the pdp-1, which had a big field
in the bottom of the shift instruction, and shifted by
the number of 1 bits in the field.
dgc
This is a good point, thank you. I had forgotten that odd feature
of the PDP-1 shift instructions. However, the PDP-3 documentation
fairly explicitly states that the shift count is taken from the
low 15 bits, not the low 6 bits, which is consistent with its
parsimonious design---it undoubtedly uses the 15-bit Index Adder
as the shift counter. The document also notes:
Shift or rotate instructions involving more than 33 [typo for 36?]
steps can be used for simulating time delays.
Another difference is that the PDP-3, unlike the PDP-1, had no bit
in the "skip group" instructions to invert the sense of the skip.
Another tiny difference is that, in the operate instructions,
the PDP-1 has a bit (lap) specifying that the PC (and Overflow bit)
should be ORed into the AC and the PDP-3 lacks that bit. But
that's according to PDP-1 manuals of 1962 and 1963, and in those
manuals, the documentation for the "lap" bit is out of sequence,
as if it had been stuck into the documentation after the fact.
The only way I can find to save the PC in the PDP-3 is with the
jsp instruction. On the PDP-1, jsp saves the PC (and Overflow)
in the AC; on the PDP-1, jsp saves the PC in the Index Adder!
Then the dia (Deposit Index Adder) instruction must be used to
save that quanity in some memory location. The Overflow bit can
be saved (and cleared) by testing it with a skip instruction, szo.
I have to say, by the way, that I feel as if I have encountered
the Missing Link---it no longer feels like *quite* such a big leap
from the PDP-1 (and PDP-4) to the PDP-6. (Instead of ten miles, it's
only eight---I don't mean to downplay the brilliance of inventing
the H- instructions, the T- instructions, the jump/skip/compare series,
the complete set of booleans, and so on---not to mention the stack
instructions and AOBJN. And the UUOs.) But seeing the halfword
architecture and the indefinite (I,Y,Y) indirection is fascinating.
--Guy
3-Dec-2001 16:13:09 -0800,1438;000000000000
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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:10:12 -0800
From: Joe Smith <Joe.Smith@wcom.com>
To: Tops-20 Mailing List <tops-20@panda.com>
Subject: Tymshare Bubb Road pictures and TYMCOM-X info added
Message-Id: <20011203161012.C865@tardis.tymnet.com>
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Two new additions to http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/tymshare/ courtesy of
(Ernie) Vance Socci: Pictures of Tymshare's KL, KI and KA systems
(http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/tymshare/BubbRoad) and info about the
TYMCOM-X Monitor (http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/tymshare/software/).
Does anyone have more pictures of Tenex or Foonly machines?
-Joe
--
Joe Smith WorldCom, Global Data Network Ops, Product Technical Support
UNIX and Tech Sup: TYMNET Network, Xstream Packet Services (Public X.25)
<Joe.Smith@wcom.com> 2560 N 1st St, MS-5046/746, San Jose, CA 95131
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10-Dec-2001 22:59:03 -0800,2145;000000000000
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From: carl@reststop.com (Carl Baltrunas & Cherie Marinelli 1.6v2)
To: TOPS-20@panda.com
Subject: Happy DEC-10 Day
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 01 18:29:29 PDT
Organization: Catalyst Industries
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Welcome to TOAD at the Rest Stop, TOPS-20 Monitor 7(102400)-1
Now connected to The Rest Stop!
(Hey! I had to say SOMETHING!)
@carl
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Happy DEC-10 Day!!!!
-Carl
Carl A Baltrunas <carl@reststop.com> and Cherie Marinelli <2bunnies@1unique.com>
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