[HN Gopher] Atomic Rocket
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Atomic Rocket
 
Author : based2
Score  : 92 points
Date   : 2023-10-22 20:15 UTC (12 hours ago)
 
web link (projectrho.com)
w3m dump (projectrho.com)
 
| brucethemoose2 wrote:
| This is a gem of the old internet.
 
  | m4rtink wrote:
  | And its still very active and often updated! :-)
 
  | sillywalk wrote:
  | I was expecting a  tag
 
  | themadturk wrote:
  | This site is nearly as bad as TVTropes. I don't go there
  | often...but when I do, it takes me hours, if not days, to get
  | back out.
 
  | MilStdJunkie wrote:
  | Indeed. I'm a gigantic booster of "Atomic Everywhere"[1]
  | myself, so this site has always been pure catnip.
  | 
  | [1] To be clear, I don't favor mass production of something
  | like the SLAM's PLUTO air-cooled reactor, spewing fission
  | fragments and God knows what else. I'm not insane. But nuclear-
  | electric distributed propulsion for aviation? Oh yeah.
 
    | brucethemoose2 wrote:
    | > nuclear ramjet
    | 
    | I dunno what you are talking about, this is a fantastic idea.
    | It will be fiiiine.
 
| selimnairb wrote:
| It either completes the entire launch sequence, or none of it.
 
  | genewitch wrote:
  | "this end points toward the ground. If this end is pointing
  | toward space, you won't be going to space today"
 
| pacificmaelstrm wrote:
| "no stealth in space"
 
  | j9461701 wrote:
  | That's actually one of my issues with atomic rockets, some of
  | its conclusions are a bit....massaged to ensure the end result
  | it wants in terms of space combat even if it doesn't super make
  | sense. As an example, even as an undergrad in physics the
  | definitiveness of 'no stealth in space' struck me as
  | implausible given what I knew about long range detection
  | mechanisms.
  | 
  | http://toughsf.blogspot.com/2016/10/the-hydrogen-steamer-ste...
  | 
  | Very straight forward solution one person came up with, I'm
  | sure there are dozens of other approaches to achieve the same
  | result. Especially if you put military level budgets into
  | figuring this out.
  | 
  | The most logical form of space combat is, as boring as it
  | sounds, undetectable suicide drones. Space battleships are both
  | super cool sounding and also alas probably utterly impractical.
  | 
  | Edit:
  | 
  | "In terms of military tactics, introducing stealth ships is the
  | equivalent of punching a hornet's nest. The standard fare of
  | bright, bold warships pumping out gigawatts without care,
  | streaking across the Solar System laden with weapons, are
  | forced to become meek and paranoid affairs, as a stealth ship
  | can dump a thousand tons of weapons out of nowhere, at any
  | time."
  | 
  | As an aside, this is something I wish scifi writers understood
  | - don't include stealth ships in your stories without
  | recognizing how they change the mechanics of war completely.
 
| giantrobot wrote:
| Atomic Rockets is such a fantastic site. Really good writing plus
| a great attention to detail. Chung is an Internet treasure.
 
| cj wrote:
| I've been binge watching For All Mankind, which takes place in an
| alternate reality where society kept on pushing further into
| space after landing on moon.
| 
| It really makes me think what could have been if we dedicated
| more investment towards space travel/research.
 
  | senectus1 wrote:
  | that sounds really interesting. Thanks for the heads up.
 
  | gcanyon wrote:
  | I love that series. As someone barely old enough to have
  | watched the moon landings, those first few minutes of the first
  | episode hit me _way_ harder than I anticipated. I was literally
  | near tears watching  .
 
  | war321 wrote:
  | I had some gripes with the way the timeline developed later on
  | (like why in a world where Saturn Vs and Sea Dragons are
  | getting launched, are space shuttles exactly like our world
  | getting made? And _getting launched to the moon?_ ) but overall
  | I do appreciate the serious take at an alternate history work
  | on mainstream television.
 
    | jessriedel wrote:
    | One of the biggest causes of lack of realism is the audience.
    | People know right away that "shuttle" means "post-Apollo
    | spaceship", and they don't know enough about them to
    | understand why it makes no sense to take it to the moon.
 
      | shiroiuma wrote:
      | I haven't seen this show yet, but I know a little about why
      | the STS was developed and why it was really a bad idea
      | (basically the military wanted the ability to launch _and
      | recover_ spy satellites intact without anyone seeing, and
      | this drove the requirements).
      | 
      | However, if you have a big settlement on the Moon, wouldn't
      | a "space truck" actually make a lot of sense, for carrying
      | large cargo loads both to and from the Moon? What am I
      | missing?
 
        | thedrbrian wrote:
        | >what am I missing?
        | 
        | The wings, wheeled landing gear, all that aerodynamic
        | streamlining,etc. everything that makes it useful to fly
        | in the atmosphere is dead weight on its way to the moon.
        | Best off sending the supplies up in a simple capsule and
        | using something like a space tug to take the capsule to
        | the moon
        | 
        | https://projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacetug.php
 
      | bbarnett wrote:
      | Strong disagree. It's not the audience, because the
      | audience watches loads of scifi without such things.
      | 
      | A lot of Apple TV is just weird. I suspect weird people
      | have creative input, EG Apple execs, who shouldn't.
 
  | keyle wrote:
  | It's a great show.
 
  | clarionbell wrote:
  | I don't really like the series. I mean, on one level it's
  | awesome, filling the same niche as Star Trek used to,
  | optimistic sci-fi.
  | 
  | On the other hand, it feels slightly odd that everything in
  | this alt-history just falls nicely into place. Everything is
  | better, society, technology, even little things like king
  | Charles marrying Camilla instead of Diana. It feels like
  | someone doused the reality in sugar.
  | 
  | Which is not bad per se. I had my fill of bleak dystopias. But
  | it is starting to stretch disbelief.
 
| metadat wrote:
| If you didn't click the second link on the main portion of the
| page page, do yourself the favor:
| 
| https://archive.org/details/Galaxy_v35n05_1974-05/page/n107/...
| 
| "Last Tuesday I got a call from a national magazine ... What he
| wasn't interested in is a list of science fiction predictions
| which just aren't going to happen. Except in rare moods, neither
| am I. ..."
| 
| It's that rare HN gold.
 
  | pugworthy wrote:
  | The View From Chaos Manor was such fun to read back when it was
  | in print.
 
  | thombat wrote:
  | How have I never seen this gem before? Belters banished by
  | basic orbital mechanics, already 50 years ago!
 
    | TeMPOraL wrote:
    | It got me at Belter civilization apparently being already a
    | well-established sci-fi trope half a decade ago. And here I
    | thought _The Expanse_ was the first to dive deep into this
    | idea. I need to seriously catch up with sci-fi stories from
    | before 1980s.
    | 
    | Also nice that, before completely ruining the idea of the
    | Belters, and apparently also having "science robbing sf
    | writers of Mars and Venus" (presumably in earlier
    | installments of this work?), he proposed a working model for
    | independent civilization settling Jovian moons. I wonder if
    | there's an updated version of the table somewhere, with the
    | numbers reflecting current knowledge of the Jovian area and
    | space propulsion.
 
      | stevenwoo wrote:
      | One thing with the early sci-fi is you will have to pretend
      | you don't know what we now know about the other planets.
      | Asimov (The Martian Way I think got Saturn's rings very
      | wrong) and Heinlein (Mars and Venus are both depicted very
      | wrongly and still a very entertaining story in Double Star)
      | had a few stories and novellas.
 
        | dragonwriter wrote:
        | Well-written relatively hard but outdated scifi is, in
        | effect, well-written slightly-softer scifi.
 
      | thombat wrote:
      | Indeed - I hadn't noticed the publication date before
      | encountering the remark about Pioneer's Jovian encounter
      | still being in the future! High time for an update;
      | although many of the additional moons may not be of direct
      | interest to settlers ("By most counts, Jupiter has between
      | 80 and 95 moons, but neither number captures the complexity
      | of the Jovian system of moons, rings and asteroids." -
      | https://science.nasa.gov/jupiter/moons/) but the much
      | richer picture of the larger moons and the surprising
      | radiation environment should either grant the Jovians their
      | empire, or sadly banish them too.
 
  | fuzzy2 wrote:
  | From the linked article:
  | 
  | > The English system of measures will be as dead as the dodo
  | within our lifetimes.
  | 
  | haha oh my
 
  | WJW wrote:
  | That's a fantastic article and it makes a very coherent point
  | about why "Belter civilization" will never make economic sense,
  | but I think it could still work very well as a society of
  | authority-mistrusting homesteaders. Like doomsday preppers but
  | off-planet.
  | 
  | The Orions Arm universe has the Hiders [1], who do not trust
  | the ruling class for one reason or the other and set off in
  | spaceships to hide in the Oort clouds.
  | 
  | [1] https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-topic/45bd1a9eb4a5c
 
| jimmcslim wrote:
| Great site, but also kind of depressing as a reminder that thanks
| to the rocket equation we aren't going anywhere fast...
 
  | m4rtink wrote:
  | No need to worry, the Orion drive and Nuclear Salt Water Rocket
  | are there to save the day! ;-)
 
| spamtarget wrote:
| if you like Atomic Rocket, check out Orion's Arm:
| 
| https://www.orionsarm.com/
| 
| It's about painting future timeline for humanity that goes on for
| eons
 
  | clarionbell wrote:
  | Muuh: Colonize Titan, refuse to elaborate further, leave.
 
| pugworthy wrote:
| Really a classic site - been following Winchell Chung for some
| time.
 
| war321 wrote:
| Definitely an amazing resource for people writing hard scifi.
 
| jfoutz wrote:
| Wasn't mars supposed to be the next stop, with a similar
| approach? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_C-5N with maybe
| some design choices coming from
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propuls...
 
  | JKCalhoun wrote:
  | Hopefully this link works. Half of a NASA chart from 1970
  | showing where we would head:
  | 
  | https://www.therpf.com/forums/attachments/space-flight-evolu...
 
| Falkon1313 wrote:
| If you like the Atomic Rocket site, you might also enjoy
| Rocketpunk Manifesto. Unfortunately it's been silent since 2017,
| but there are 10 years of thought-provoking posts and comment
| threads to read.
| 
| http://www.rocketpunk-manifesto.com/
 
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(page generated 2023-10-23 09:00 UTC)