[HN Gopher] Disney packed big emotion into a little robot
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Disney packed big emotion into a little robot
 
Author : rbanffy
Score  : 242 points
Date   : 2023-10-09 07:44 UTC (1 days ago)
 
web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
 
| AndrewKemendo wrote:
| Mark my words, Behavior Authoring will be the Prompt Engineering
| of the future with no looking back
| 
| Robotic platforms are a few iterations away from it at most
 
  | Etheryte wrote:
  | I'm not sure I see what you mean with that? Prompt engineering
  | used to be crucial for getting good results, however with each
  | successive iteration it has become less and less relevant.
 
    | CharlesW wrote:
    | > _I 'm not sure I see what you mean with that?_
    | 
    | Prompt engineering is an extremely simple form of behavior
    | authoring. I'm curious about how you arrived at the
    | conclusion that newer models make prompts and prompting
    | strategies less relevant.
    | 
    | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior_authoring
 
      | Etheryte wrote:
      | An example of what I mean with prompt engineering becoming
      | less relevant as models get better is quoted at [0]:
      | 
      | > Researchers from Microsoft tested GPT-4 on medical
      | problems and found "that GPT-4, without any specialized
      | prompt crafting, exceeds the passing score on USMLE by over
      | 20 points and outperforms earlier general-purpose models
      | (GPT-3.5) as well as models specifically fine-tuned on
      | medical knowledge (Med-PaLM, a prompt-tuned version of
      | Flan-PaLM 540B).
      | 
      | [0]
      | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPT-4#Medical_applications
 
| rob74 wrote:
| If you ignore the head part, it looks very much like one of these
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walker_(Star_Wars)#All_Terrain...
 
  | soupfordummies wrote:
  | Or this one! https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/BD_unit
 
    | Topgamer7 wrote:
    | This was my immediate thought, and this is probably what they
    | were going for.
 
      | sleepybrett wrote:
      | Yeah, I think when they do star wars shows/movies they seem
      | to prefer practical droids and aliens when they can do them
      | convincingly. They did do a BD in the past in Mando, but I
      | think it was CG. Maybe they are working towards a practical
      | BD for a future series.
 
| daniel_reetz wrote:
| I used to work at Disney Research. This is a great example of the
| kinds of problems that get explored there. The constraints are
| totally different than the normal consumer-focused engineering
| you find elsewhere, because the creative conceits are
| simultaneously a challenge and a get-out-of-jail-free card.
| 
| The impossible parts of problems could be solved by visual
| sleight of hand or some artistic trick, leaving you open to
| explore and solve some really interesting application specific
| problems with technology. The much, much harder part is making
| any of this research work robust and compelling enough to
| actually show in the parks.
 
  | tomcam wrote:
  | Why did you leave?
 
    | sproketboy wrote:
    | [dead]
 
    | dylan604 wrote:
    | With some of the nicknames for one of their buildings in
    | Burbank, I could definitely think of some possible reasons.
    | Hopefully, the reasons for the GP are different than my
    | ideas, and they are much less depressing.
 
      | mkl wrote:
      | Well, don't leave us hanging. What are the nicknames? A few
      | internet searches didn't seem to pull up anything.
 
        | alana314 wrote:
        | Many were forced to move to florida, though Disney is
        | backtracking on that now
 
  | knicholes wrote:
  | You don't happen to know how someone could get access to some
  | amazing research, do you? They released Autoconnect, and it
  | blew my mind. I needed it just yesterday, but I couldn't find
  | it. https://la.disneyresearch.com/publication/autoconnect/
 
  | throwawayqqq11 wrote:
  | > the kinds of problems that get explored
  | 
  | The uncanny valley problem?
  | 
  | This intrigues me even more.
 
| dwighttk wrote:
| No qualia no emotion
 
  | pizzafeelsright wrote:
  | Is that to say there is only the display of emotion?
  | 
  | I am curious if the two robot monkeys forget all about the
  | history of the ladder.
  | 
  | Will the future not-robot monkeys discover the truth?
  | 
  | I am always amazed that I am not upset at the computer but at
  | my failure to operate it in a way to get the desired outcome.
  | The ability to generate emotion exists within the imageo and
  | not the observed or learned.
 
    | mbakke wrote:
    | > The ability to generate emotion exists within the imageo
    | and not the observed
    | 
    | I was thinking the _exact_ same thing while pondering the
    | parents assertion.
    | 
    | Qualia is just the notion of _being something_. The classic
    | example is a bat: what is the qualitative experience of being
    | nearly blind, but having wings and a highly accurate
    | echolocation system?
    | 
    | Plants too have qualia. What is it _like_ to be a tree. To
    | feel the nurture of the sun, the change in seasons, and to
    | heal a broken branch.
    | 
    | The qualia of a stone is less exciting, but we can still
    | imagine being a dense pack of minerals. Perhaps rolling down
    | a mountain and losing some weight. Suddenly finding ourselves
    | on the ocean floor, drifting aimlessly, while providing cover
    | and nutrition to all sorts of life. After staying stationary
    | for thousands of years.
    | 
    | That rock has _seen things_ , man!
    | 
    | Down at the atom level things get more excited. What is the
    | qualitative experience of interacting with other atoms? Or a
    | photon? Of being _entangled_? State transitions?
    | 
    | Anyway. It's clear to me that this robot absolutely has
    | qualia. I can imagine what it's like to be be a circuit
    | board, with an operating system, a bunch of sensors, a neural
    | processing engine, and a hard shell. How it _feels_.
    | 
    | It makes me appreciate being human more. But also evokes
    | empathy for that adorable lump of silicon, metals, and
    | plastics. Don't let the GP comment bring you down, little
    | one. You are perfect just as you are.
 
  | hammock wrote:
  | Perhaps qualia is an abstractive interpretation of the internal
  | state that generates emotional expression
 
  | ilaksh wrote:
  | They are not claiming that it experiences emotion. The point is
  | that it's movements are very emotive.
 
  | aidenn0 wrote:
  | Prove it doesn't have qualia
 
    | kbelder wrote:
    | Qualia is the safety hatch some philosophers use to escape
    | from losing arguments.
 
    | mensetmanusman wrote:
    | It has been proven that some truths can not be proven, so
    | it's not that interesting of a requirement.
 
  | mbowcut2 wrote:
  | Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.
 
    | wsintra2022 wrote:
    | But is actually a Disney animatronic name Daffy
 
| nerdjon wrote:
| Disney Imagineering (is it still called that?) always seemed
| fascinating when you looked at it as part of a company like
| Disney. Like it doesn't really make sense to exist within Disney
| if you think about it too hard but it also is critical to what
| makes Disney... Disney.
| 
| I am always fascinated ever time they release a research video (I
| remember the one talking about snow simulation for Frozen).
| 
| It seems like it could be a fascinating place to work and (from
| the outside) seems unique given their priorities. It isn't to
| release a consumer product, a new b2b project, its to support
| some other narrative purpose.
| 
| I do find it fairly fascinating that at one point in the video I
| was watching it and figured it had to be CGI. I wonder if that is
| just still not used to this on a regular basis.
| 
| Side Note: This robot is CUTE and I want one.
 
  | shadowgovt wrote:
  | > Like it doesn't really make sense to exist within Disney if
  | you think about it too hard but it also is critical to what
  | makes Disney... Disney.
  | 
  | Disney himself was a huge fan of technology and both him and
  | the CEOs after him recognized that there's a part of the
  | industry they're in (entertainment) that requires secrecy;
  | literal "magic" is mostly "things you can do that other people
  | don't know how to do." So they keep that research in-house
  | because they want first-mover advantage on illusions, effects,
  | and experiences that nobody else can do.
  | 
  | That's the best way to conceptualize Imagineering: it's a magic
  | factory. In that sense, absolutely essential core-business-
  | model stuff for the park-and-show entertainment sector of the
  | company.
  | 
  | (Some of the more recent CEOs didn't grasp this aspect and
  | actually _did_ outsource some of the work done in the past
  | half-decade. I 'm going to be real interested to see what the
  | park scene looks like in the Orlando area in the next decade or
  | so as the technologies third-party vendors developed on
  | Disney's behalf diffuse directly into Disney's competition).
 
  | sleepybrett wrote:
  | Looks like it's based on the BD-1 droid from the jedi fallen
  | order franchise: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/BD-1
  | 
  | He is, in fact, adorable.
 
    | nerdjon wrote:
    | hah right? It's not even subtle with how similar it can be.
    | It just needs to be able to jump on my shoulder in a few
    | generations.
    | 
    | Like ok I get it, Disney isn't going to paint up a prototype
    | or reveal too much of their plans with something like this
    | likely in the works years in advance.
    | 
    | This wouldn't be the first time they showed a prototype that
    | was rather clearly for a specific purpose (like the spider
    | man flying robot)
    | 
    | But uh... that is 100% Star Wars.
 
    | slimginz wrote:
    | If you watch the video linked in the article he even beeps
    | like BD-1! I love it!
 
    | distortedsignal wrote:
    | Thank you for remembering BD-1. It was frustrating to not be
    | able to remember that droid's designation.
 
  | throwaway9274 wrote:
  | The focus on robotics research starts to make more sense when
  | you dig into the financials.
  | 
  | Disney's FY2022 operating income was $12.7B. $7.9B (!) of that
  | comes from theme parks. That's 65%.
  | 
  | Everything else Disney does (Pixar movies, Disney movies, Star
  | Wars movies, television, streaming, touring musicals,
  | merchandise, partnerships, IP licensing) is the remaining 45%.
  | 
  | Robotics is essential to the parks.
 
  | detourdog wrote:
  | On the other hand Walt Disney was a creative maniac with a
  | large fortune and desire to invent theme parks. Imagineering is
  | the one valve in the heart of Disney.
 
    | [deleted]
 
    | nerdjon wrote:
    | I agree 100%, based on the desire for theme parks it fits.
    | 
    | But from the outside looking in what is "Disney". I would
    | wager that for the vast majority of people Disney is Mickey
    | Mouse, Frozen, Lion King, etc. basically media. Obviously I
    | would say that people would also say the parks. But I doubt
    | the word "Tech" is anywhere in the vast majority of people's
    | opinion on what Disney is.
    | 
    | It is wild to think that behind what is a media company, is
    | an organization with strong engineering talent. I mean it
    | seems like that the robot engineering specifically rivals
    | most of what else is out there.
    | 
    | That isn't saying there are not more advanced robotics,
    | Boston Dynamics projects are a big example.
    | 
    | But there is also something to be said that this is probably
    | going to be in a park in just a few years, if not sooner. It
    | isn't going to sit in research stage forever.
    | 
    | But it is a really weird timeline that Disney is associated
    | with advanced robotics and other crazy things that Disney
    | Imagineering does.
 
      | kranke155 wrote:
      | Disney corp. and their brilliant animators and technicians
      | invented various parts of animated films during an intense
      | period of RnD, both technical and creative. This culminated
      | in Snow White which was the first animated feature film
      | (afaik) and it was a huge hit.
      | 
      | Hollywood was the Silicon Valley of the 20s and 30s. They
      | were using and inventing cutting edge tech!
 
| slowhadoken wrote:
| [flagged]
 
  | nerdjon wrote:
  | I should have ignored this comment but I just can't.
  | 
  | Disney has been political for a very very long time. I would
  | even say "Woke" since that seems to be the term that you want
  | to use so much.
  | 
  | I would like to point out the lyrics for Pocohuants "Colors of
  | the Wind".
  | 
  | "You think the only people who are people
  | 
  | Are the people who look and think like you".
  | 
  | This came out in 1995. If that movie came out today people like
  | you would be ALL over it calling it Woke.
  | 
  | This doesn't mean that Disney hasn't had its share of problems
  | when it comes to representation and similar issues. Like Mickey
  | donning blackface in an old cartoon (Is that the "Wholesome"
  | content you want Disney to be making again?).
  | 
  | But creating media is inherently political in some form.
  | Otherwise you are not saying anything of value and what you're
  | making probably shouldn't exist. (There are some nuance to this
  | but let's keep this simple). You are generally trying to say or
  | express _something_ and that can be political in its purist
  | form (may not political in how it 's viewed today but still
  | political).
  | 
  | As far as Disney going away from "identity politics". Well that
  | isn't happening. Not only are they still fighting the "Don't
  | Say Gay" bill but they are holding official pride nights at
  | their parks now.
  | 
  | We have seen an increase in representation in Disney media and
  | gotten a lot of praise for doing that. It has been slower than
  | many of us would like, but it's still progress.
  | 
  | The world isn't about to start going backwards and Disney is
  | just following that most people don't give a shit anymore.
  | 
  | For the record I am saying all of this as a gay man with
  | multiple Disney tattoos, including a pride one I very proudly
  | wear on my arm that is always visible.
 
    | shadowgovt wrote:
    | Disney, the company, goes where the money goes. I mean, yes,
    | there are human beings with beliefs in charge also, but the
    | company has a _very_ sensitive nose for where the wind is
    | blowing in terms of American politics. Misreading those winds
    | leaves money on the table.
    | 
    | Disney World Gay Days were an organized event dating back to
    | the '90s, where people would show up on a specific day and
    | wear red to indicate they were there for a specific reason.
    | This was, broadly, supported by the staff (no surprise that
    | there is a massive overlap between a theater-heavy ecosystem
    | and LGBTQ+ tolerance and inclusion) and never formally
    | endorsed by the company.
    | 
    | ... but the company _did_ start selling red-based rainbow-
    | patterned official merchandise for certain months of the
    | year. Plausible deniability, but people have money and the
    | company would prefer they spend it.
    | 
    | If anything, the Disney we see in this decade of the 2000s is
    | a Disney that is responding to what it perceives Americans
    | are willing to support, spend money on, and consume. People
    | blame Disney for "being woke," but Disney's Disney; it's
    | always been Disney. Disney looks at American culture,
    | catalyzes it, makes it feel fun, exciting, and engaging, and
    | feeds it back to the public. Disney's telling the stories its
    | audience wants to hear.
    | 
    | ... and _that_ is what scares the hell out of the DeSantises
    | of the country and those who support them.
    | 
    | (Sidebar: if you happen to know staff who have worked at the
    | parks and are willing to talk to you off-the-record, the
    | stories are _hilarious_ about guest behavior. Gay Days guests
    | were basically never a problem. Church youth groups, on the
    | other hand? Cast has to poke their noses into every nook and
    | cranny of the parks to make sure they aren 't sneaking off to
    | make out and... let's say "violating decency policy").
    | 
    | (Sidebar 2: I tend to be a cynic and my writing tends to end
    | up with a cynical tone. but I want to turn the elephant
    | around here and highlight something: "Disney responds to what
    | Americans are willing to support" means that they're doing
    | what they do now because people like you didn't shut up when
    | told, didn't sit down, didn't go away, didn't become
    | invisible. There are megacorporations who haven't been able
    | to make the Mouse hear them. The people who stubbornly
    | refused to go away for so many _decades_ that the company
    | started selling red shirts and rainbow mouse ears did
    | something to be proud of.)
 
      | nerdjon wrote:
      | So just a couple things, I wasn't referring to Disney World
      | Gay Days but "Disneyland Pride at Night" which was an
      | official event that was held this year.
      | 
      | I was at the event and it had the feeling of it being
      | organized as a big "F U" to DeSantis. (and btw it was a
      | fantastic event).
      | 
      | They also have pride elements around both parks (including
      | a friend of mine was there just a month or so ago and they
      | still had some pride things up. Downtown Disney at
      | Disneyland has (or had) a giant pride mickey reef.
      | 
      | Disney now is past plausible deniability on this.
      | 
      | I do think that Disney did push the envelope a bit. I mean
      | it was back in 2014 that they had a Disney Chanel show had
      | a lesbian couple with kids on Good Luck Charlie.
      | 
      | But you are right that the reality is what Disney is doing
      | (and most companies) is following what is socially
      | acceptable. That is good business. Maybe they will push a
      | bit, especially with Hollywood tending to lean more
      | socially liberal so they are generally a few steps head of
      | the rest of the country.
      | 
      | Edit: The Floral Reef I am referring too: https://i.insider
      | .com/6492105565b9ce0018a43b68?width=1000&fo...
 
    | Philpax wrote:
    | Hear, hear.
 
  | aintgonnatakeit wrote:
  | Perhaps you meant to say that you're happy they're moving back
  | toward broadly appealing topics instead of those resembling a
  | rather small part of the population.
 
| yayitswei wrote:
| Much cuter than the military parkour robot we saw the other day.
| Both impressive though!
 
| seeknotfind wrote:
| Definitely reminds me of Wall.e
 
  | grecy wrote:
  | Which I believe took cues from Johnny 5
 
    | mysterydip wrote:
    | Sounds like turtles all the way down
 
  | cptnapalm wrote:
  | It's pretty much BD-1 from Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order.
 
    | sleepybrett wrote:
    | Looks that way, but maybe he needs some ozempic, looks like
    | he put on a freshman five ;)
 
| divbzero wrote:
| I assume (hope?) this is one of the cases where an advanced robot
| is being designed without military use in mind.
 
| syntaxing wrote:
| Have some coworkers that used to work for Disney. I hear most
| left since the California to Florida transition. It's a shame
| because the problems sound so interesting but I also hear the pay
| is very mediocre.
 
  | JohnMakin wrote:
  | There was no florida to california transition. That got axed by
  | the drama surrounding the florida governor and disney pulled
  | out:
  | 
  | https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/18/disney-scraps-lake-nona-
  | flor....
 
    | syntaxing wrote:
    | It never came into fruition suddenly but I believe it was
    | always the planned agenda prior. Which makes sense to change
    | your job if you expect that it wouldn't be in the area you
    | want to live in the long run.
 
| 6stringmerc wrote:
| Great now whatever is copyright eligible in there is lost to
| progress.
 
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Disney had an animatronic Lincoln that blew everybody away at the
| '64 Worlds Fair
| 
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Moments_with_Mr._Lincoln
| 
| (Oddly, Phillip K. Dick's _We can build you_ featuring a Lincoln
| simulacrum was written in 1962, a few year before Disney 's
| Lincoln)
| 
| The emotional impact of that Lincoln was carried by the voice
| actor
| 
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dano
| 
| working under Disney's direction. As others have pointed out this
| is an example of where a system like this can be carried by
| getting a few things really right and faking the other ones well
| enough.
| 
| Disney
 
  | ska wrote:
  | > (Oddly, ...
  | 
  | Why would that be odd? It's very common for speculative fiction
  | to have a version of something before it is realized in the
  | "real world".
 
| scroot wrote:
| For whatever reason, it bugs me that this robot doesn't have a
| name (or at least the name isn't mentioned in the article)
 
  | eatonphil wrote:
  | > As far as this robot goes, the character doesn't have an
  | official name, and Disney isn't ready to comment on where we
  | might see it. But based on how it looks and sounds, we have
  | some guesses.
  | 
  | Yup
 
| sleepybrett wrote:
| Looks like it's a slightly overweight BD-1 from the jedi fallen
| order games. Awesome.
 
| WesSouza wrote:
| Remember Vector from Anki, which had some former Pixar animators
| working on it.
 
| pseudosavant wrote:
| What is the total addressable market for a Disney/Star Wars
| branded e-pet droid? Seeing the kids pull a robot with this much
| 'personality' on a leash made it seem like an obvious use case.
| The robot wouldn't have to be that cheap to be less expensive
| than buying and caring for a dog. It has to be as adorable as
| this robot though.
 
| suyash wrote:
| nice, now any pointers on how someone can make something similar
| in a smaller form factor?
 
  | numpad0 wrote:
  | Hardware is more or less half a robot dog, but the cuteness is
  | in the software. Closest open source cute animatronics I've
  | seen is Stack-chan based on M5Stack/ESP32, but it's still far
  | off from Disney cute.
  | 
  | 1: https://github.com/meganetaaan/stack-chan
 
  | all2 wrote:
  | I'd be very tempted to try and run a gear train and cable
  | system so that the majority of the weight was near center of
  | mass. If you're going small enough, there are servos that pull
  | a few oz and could easily manipulate fishing line in tubes.
 
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Fit enough hardware to run a language model into one of these and
| Disney's got a trillion dollar market here.
 
  | quickthrower2 wrote:
  | Basically an "Ashley Too"
  | 
  | Whether a toy market is a trillion dollars is questionable.
 
  | shadowgovt wrote:
  | Oh, not even. You off-board that hardware into a nearby
  | cluster. No reason the brain has to be in the chassis when
  | radio is so high-bandwidth.
  | 
  | ... a Disney of the past would build four of these and just
  | have them wander around EPCOT's Future World, just to set the
  | tone. This Disney will probably purpose them for their Star
  | Wars experiences. Still great to see.
 
  | mbowcut2 wrote:
  | This is the move right here. And it doesn't have to be a GPT-4
  | I-know-absolutely-everything model. I think they could train a
  | <1B param model that is capable of being cute and interactive.
 
    | PaulHoule wrote:
    | I dunno.
    | 
    | Dialogue is the area where the interactivity of video games
    | falls down completely. I mean, dialogue in a video game can
    | be just as good as the dialogue in a movie but it has to be
    | "on rails" because of the lack of linguistic competence of
    | today's computers.
    | 
    | Even with a much better system it has to be "on rails" in
    | that a video game character will get in trouble if you get it
    | to enough an extended conversation which can be somewhat
    | answered by "people have various ways to set boundaries" and
    | that that of course can be part of the characterization.
    | 
    | Y'all are probably sick of me talking about how Tamamo-no-mae
    | in the game Fate/Extella is the pinnacle of characterization
    | in modern games, but being based on a legendary character who
    | is able to charm people by talking intelligently about any
    | subject who is connected to a photonic crystal computer that
    | has recorded all the Earth's history and having the
    | relationship she does with the protagonist any answer she has
    | to why she doesn't realize her promise would be terribly
    | disappointing.
 
    | bpicolo wrote:
    | They could also just call out to web services with cellular
    | internet.
 
      | ghayes wrote:
      | The RTT would need to be very low. It's hard to have a
      | conversation with 2-3 second pauses.
 
        | shadowgovt wrote:
        | The long poll in GPT isn't network; it's compute.
        | Unfortunately, the tech probably isn't there yet for this
        | use case.
 
        | patapong wrote:
        | I am not sure about that! It seems like small models are
        | emerging that are a bit more specific but can be very
        | small, and thus have much lower latency. For example:
        | https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.07759
 
    | aiunboxed wrote:
    | Agree, that is all kids would need.
 
      | [deleted]
 
  | mc32 wrote:
  | We could have a Johnny Five! That would be super cool.
 
    | ragebol wrote:
    | Or an AT-ST to do home patrol. Beware of squirrels with logs
    | and rope though.
 
| etrvic wrote:
| I think i know what my next side project is.
 
| tortoise_in wrote:
| Feels like Wall-E is coming to life
 
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