[HN Gopher] The way that Jensen Huang runs Nvidia: 40 direct rep...
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The way that Jensen Huang runs Nvidia: 40 direct reports, no 1:1s
 
Author : vinnyglennon
Score  : 119 points
Date   : 2023-09-12 19:42 UTC (3 hours ago)
 
web link (twitter.com)
w3m dump (twitter.com)
 
| matt3210 wrote:
| This is a psy-op to get AMD to have this horrible management
| structure.
 
| aborsy wrote:
| - Does not conduct 1:1s - everything happens in a group setting.
| 
| Wouldn't in large meetings mostly the loudest and most political
| be heard? How do you hear everyone in a large meeting? Who takes
| credit, assumes responsibility, be more or less paid, etc?
| 
| 1:1 are important, at least to connect to people.
| 
| Nvidia bet on a good fast growing market early on (AI). Maybe
| that explains their success. Also, take these stories with a
| grain of salt, til the sources are clear.
 
  | fortran77 wrote:
  | > Nvidia bet on a good fast growing market early on (AI)
  | 
  | No. Early on they realized that supporting developers for GPGPU
  | is important, and many industries have been well served by it,
  | starting with computer graphics and gaming.
 
  | itiro wrote:
  | Connection to people is important and grown ups can sort out
  | how and when.
 
  | mcoliver wrote:
  | You know where people play politics? 1:1's. Stories get told,
  | facts left out, no dissent, people take credit for things they
  | shouldn't be taking credit for. Group accountability and
  | transparency squashes all that.
 
    | aborsy wrote:
    | People play politics everywhere possible. 1:1 at least
    | guarantees that you have a chance to present your work.
    | 
    | Problems with meetings: people don't express themselves
    | because they might offend others or create enemies, people
    | follow each other, no defined rules on how the meeting
    | operates, problems with credit, diluted responsibilities,
    | opportunities for shifting the work and credit, as someone
    | said in comments formation of cliques competing, etc.
    | 
    | Both are probably needed. You need to mix.
 
      | heisenbit wrote:
      | Group settings favor bolder, louder folks. But then he has
      | email sampling. Besides a top manager directly cutting
      | through layers changes communication culture. When facts
      | and not presentation becomes focus of the group other sets
      | of skills than political are becoming valued more.
 
    | caminante wrote:
    | For me, shadow governance is intrinsic to large
    | organizations.
    | 
    | It's going to happen.
    | 
    | At these "open" nVidia meetings, I'm sure cliques are texting
    | on MSFT Teams or SMS.
    | 
    | I'm skeptical that 1:1 here means no 1:1 contact and rather
    | no recurring meetings with reports.
 
    | agumonkey wrote:
    | I often wonder what's the right balance between group and
    | personal, as you say, 1:1 has issues, but groups have some
    | too (extrovert can use more space).
 
  | koromak wrote:
  | The meetings he's are are already filled with people
  | comfortable being loud and political. I'm sure the actual
  | technical doers are having plenty of 1:1s
 
| Havoc wrote:
| If you're sitting of a money printer then damn near any org
| structure will work.
| 
| The only interesting part is Nvidia getting their bets right
| repeatedly & the why behind that is likely interesting. Is lack
| of 1:1s the secret recipe...doubtful
 
| tpmx wrote:
| No status reports, instead he "stochastically samples the system"
| - Doesn't use status updates because he believes they are too
| refined by the          time they get to him. They are not ground
| truth anymore.         - Instead, anyone in the company can email
| him their "top five things" with          whatever is top of
| mind, and he will read it         - Estimates he reads 100 of
| these everyone morning
| 
| I like this idea.
 
  | basiccalendar74 wrote:
  | In practice, each org has a top5 mailing list to which
  | employees send weekly updates. Jensen samples from these
  | mailing lists.
 
    | tpmx wrote:
    | Who can read the mails sent to each org's top5 mailing list?
    | Can ICs subscribe?
 
      | basiccalendar74 wrote:
      | everyone in the org can read them. One can also subscribe
      | to other org's mailing lists.
 
        | tpmx wrote:
        | Awesome.
        | 
        | I'm a software guy who for 1.5 years worked for a
        | hardware company with a relatively strict upwards-only
        | information reporting structure. It wasn't even for
        | secrecy, it's just that the people running it didn't
        | understand the concept of collaboration at all. They were
        | a mix of physicists and economists. Really smart but
        | also, as it turned out, very 'square' people. It was a
        | relatively small company, around 100 people.
        | 
        | It felt quite soul-crushing after a busy week to have to
        | spend mental efforts writing up a report to someone 1-3
        | levels up... especially if you had no idea if it was ever
        | read. And then do this every single week. If colleagues
        | could consume and learn from this effort it would make a
        | lot more sense.
        | 
        | Never again. Went back to the relatively speaking much
        | saner software world after that experience.
 
        | cloudripper wrote:
        | Thank you for the articulation of the issue and your
        | experience dealing with it. Were you aware of the
        | articulated issue (the absence of collaboration) while
        | you were there? Or did it only become clear in
        | retrospect? I imagine in an environment like this it
        | would be easy to get lost in the feeling of being
        | undervalued and disrespected, without being clear of the
        | source/cause of that feeling (unhealthy organizational
        | culture).
 
  | epolanski wrote:
  | Yeah, but it works if someone reads and cares.
 
| mrcwinn wrote:
| I love this. When I was CEO of a roughly 60-person startup, one
| of the things I told my (then-new) executive team was, I don't do
| 1:1s and I'm not here to develop you professionally. If you
| require professional development, I made a mistake placing you on
| my executive team. It helped establish a culture of execution and
| high standards.
| 
| It also fostered a lot of trust and cohesion. Everyone knew they
| were there because they deserved to be there, and so it made it
| very easy to make fast, correct decisions without a lot of
| bullshit. They were a great group and I felt lucky to have them
| on the journey.
 
  | bloqs wrote:
  | Everyone regardless of status, position and experience requires
  | professional development. Otherwise you claim omnicience.
  | Finding willing participants to seed a narcissistic pyramid of
  | self congratulation who are willing to forego this, to furnish
  | either their ego or yours (or both) is commendable, however.
 
    | DiggyJohnson wrote:
    | This seems like an abuse of the word need. Most of
    | "professional development" is self-actualized, and a product
    | of experience, ability, and achievement on the job.
    | 
    | I think explicit PD makes sense at a big corporation or even
    | a medium sized firm, but not in a startup environment where
    | every second counts.
 
    | protastus wrote:
    | I believe the idea is that these individuals are expected to
    | develop themselves through a combination of self-awareness,
    | autonomy, ambition and an environment that promotes growth.
    | 
    | Executives are expected to be mature enough to not need hand
    | holding.
 
    | rmk wrote:
    | The idea is that Professional Development should be sought
    | elsewhere, not from the CEO. That's not the same as 'no one
    | needs professional development'.
    | 
    | If you do not do Professional Development, and make this
    | clear to your hires whom you expect to be pretty good at
    | their job functions already, I do not see how it should be
    | treated as cultivating yes-men. 'I don't do Professional
    | Development' is also not the same as 'I can't take feedback
    | or let someone call a spade a spade'.
 
  | waffleiron wrote:
  | How did that work out? I am wondering how much to take out of
  | that anecdote without more info on how that company did with
  | you as CEO.
  | 
  | You are talking in a past tense, and I can't help but wonder
  | about the reason for that.
 
  | bjt12345 wrote:
  | I suppose the first question is.
  | 
  | What's in it for me?
  | 
  | What's on the table here?
  | 
  | This to me sounds like a culture of no support for technical
  | staff, no listening, and helicopter management when things go
  | wrong.
  | 
  | And no training budget.
 
    | DiggyJohnson wrote:
    | Just because something sounds bad to you doesn't make your
    | speculation accurate.
    | 
    | > and no training budget
    | 
    | You're just speculating. And this GP was referring to his
    | executive reports, not the ICs.
 
    | ShamelessC wrote:
    | Presumably a lot of money and mental health issues.
 
| DiabloD3 wrote:
| [flagged]
 
  | sebzim4500 wrote:
  | I wish I was as unsuccessful as Nvidia.
 
  | epolanski wrote:
  | Imagine being seriously convinced Nvidia is falling apart.
 
    | DiabloD3 wrote:
    | Imagine being seriously convinced Nvidia is a good example of
    | a successful tech company, and that Jensen is just a quirky
    | startup CEO and should be worshipped like how people worship
    | Steve Jobs (which is also wrong to do, fwiw).
    | 
    | Again and again, Nvidia does everything possible to make
    | shareholder value look good, while robbing both shareholders
    | and customers of value.
 
      | epolanski wrote:
      | Those are opinions not facts.
      | 
      | Anyway, I was writing a longer post but I'll summarize it
      | very simply: lack of competition in the GPU market (which
      | is the cause of your overblown points) isn't Nvidia's
      | fault.
 
        | DiabloD3 wrote:
        | How isn't it Nvidia's fault? Nvidia refuses to compete.
        | 
        | They refused to compete for the Sony contract, they
        | refused to compete for the Microsoft contract, they've
        | refused to compete for countless Top500 supercomputer
        | contracts. They didn't just not win the bid, they didn't
        | even bother bidding in some cases.
        | 
        | They "competed" for the Switch contract because they had
        | a warehouse of SoCs that were made for an era of gaming
        | phablet that never happened and selling them at cost to
        | Nintendo was the best they could do.
        | 
        | You know how they chose to compete? They bought Mellanox,
        | a smaller but _extremely_ competitive company in the high
        | bandwidth interconnect market.... which after the Nvidia
        | acquisition, Nvidia dropped the Mellanox name (maybe the
        | _most valuable_ thing in the entire acquisition!)
        | 
        | I'm straight up glad I don't own Nvidia stock. I'd have
        | an ulcer if I did.
        | 
        | I'm not saying AMD is magically better here, AMD has all
        | of their corporate and technological warts too... but at
        | least they show up and do the job. Nvidia doesn't even
        | show up.
 
| sdfghswe wrote:
| I'm not saying these are good or bad. But I note that every time
| a company becomes "hot", people start mindlessly copying its
| quirks, as if those are the things that make the company. They
| might be, or they might not.
| 
| Reminds me of a friend who didn't wear socks because Einstein
| didn't wear socks. The implication being "he doesn't wear socks
| and he's smart, so if I don't wear socks I'll be closer to being
| as smart as Einstein". Ok, we were like 8 years old, but still.
 
  | jabradoodle wrote:
  | This drives me crazy. let's adopt the practices of this blog
  | post from an org 100x larger than ours, building a product
  | which is in no way similar to ours... why?
 
    | rnk wrote:
    | Hey, 40 direct reports is accepted best practice! Remember
    | when google did that? My manager was a poser back 15 years
    | ago, he had only 20 direct reports - I'm not making this up.
 
      | bbarnett wrote:
      | No one on ones is probably to protect from sexual assault
      | allegations. No time alone == safe.
 
        | 13of40 wrote:
        | Well hold up, I do 1:1s with people at least every two
        | weeks, but I haven't actually breathed the same air as
        | one of them since the beginning of summer. (We both drove
        | to that empty building downtown and had lunch, IIRC.)
 
        | sneak wrote:
        | It saves on communication time, less repeating.
        | 
        | I get a lot of cold emails from my website, asking me
        | things. I ask those corresponding with me to ask the
        | questions on my BBS instead, so when I take the time to
        | answer, the answer benefits more than one person, and
        | there is increased ROI on the time and energy spent
        | constructing a thoughtful reply.
 
  | tstrimple wrote:
  | And so, microservices and kubernetes were thrust upon the
  | unsuspecting world.
 
  | mongol wrote:
  | Didn't Einstein wear socks? Seems like a misunderstanding.
  | Sounds more like Steve Jobs to me
 
    | bookofjoe wrote:
    | shoes
 
  | satvikpendem wrote:
  | YC talks about exactly this idea, cargo culting startups:
  | https://www.ycombinator.com/library/IR-dalton-michael-silico...
 
  | blantonl wrote:
  | The people that imitated Steve Jobs' worst traits under the
  | auspices that they were "as smart and driven" as him and
  | therefore should mimic some of these traits was rather
  | maddening.
  | 
  | I honestly believe there was an entire generation of young
  | managers who thought that it was OK to wear turtlenecks every
  | day and be an abrasive asshole.
 
| andsoitis wrote:
| > Does not conduct 1:1s - everything happens in a group setting
| 
| I don't believe that. There's really no confidential matters he
| discusses with team members on a 1-on-1 basis?
 
  | bbor wrote:
  | "Does not schedule 1:1s" likely doesn't mean "never has 1:1
  | conversations in his life". I have no idea what being a ceo of
  | a infinity-dollar company is like, but I imagine he's on
  | somewhat amicable terms with many of his reports, and many
  | opportunities outside of scheduled meetings to talk with them.
  | Slack, for example - assuming he's not pulling a Sundar ;)
 
  | stusmall wrote:
  | I think they are referring to regular, scheduled, private
  | standing meetings between a manager and their subordinate. They
  | are often called "1 on 1s". Of course he talks to folks in
  | private when needed.
 
  | pixl97 wrote:
  | Depends what you mean by group, but ya, even 'personal'
  | meetings probably have a member of HR in the room.
  | 
  | There is no thing as so confidential that only 2 people need to
  | know it.
 
    | ghaff wrote:
    | >even 'personal' meetings probably have a member of HR in the
    | room
    | 
    | That seems ludicrous at any company I've worked for absent
    | some serious HR-related issue.
 
    | sokoloff wrote:
    | In my experience, if HR is in the room for a 1:1:1 personal
    | meeting, things are not going well for at least one person in
    | that meeting.
 
| paganel wrote:
| 1:1s are mostly a fad, people refusing to go with the team and
| thinking that they're special and that they need personal
| counselling and growth-ing and all that bs.
| 
| It's simple, you're either part of the group or you're not,
| there's no "I" in group. I don't see past great leaders (military
| and not only) doing 1:1s with the members of their groups.
 
  | mytailorisrich wrote:
  | I suspect that it was routine for "past great leaders" to have
  | 1:1s, which only means to have opportunities to speak face to
  | face in private with direct reports.
  | 
  | The modern 'open space' office makes it impossible because it
  | is effectively a panopticon where everyone is in full view and
  | hearing distance of others all the time so effort has to be
  | made to schedule 1:1s and that may seem forced and contrived.
  | 
  | When one had to go to their manager's private office to report
  | of discuss something it was easier to exchange in confidence
  | without any specific planning.
  | 
  | My personal experience is that 1:1s are very useful not just as
  | an opportunity to raise and discuss concerns but to create
  | rapport and talk shop openly and informally.
 
    | ethbr1 wrote:
    | 1:1 feel like an unhealthy commingling of management with
    | mentorship. Better the two are distinct.
    | 
    | You have a relationship with your manager.
    | 
    | You have an optional relationship with a mentor.
    | 
    | There's no reason for both to be the same person. In all
    | probability, your manager might not even have the skills to
    | be a good mentor.
    | 
    | And they certainly don't have aligned incentives while _also_
    | people-managing you.
 
      | not2b wrote:
      | You can have a regular 1:1 with your mentor, even if that
      | person isn't your manager. I have a regular 1:1 with a
      | developer who will eventually take over some of my
      | responsibilities, but he doesn't formally report to me.
 
    | ghaff wrote:
    | There's probably truth in that. If I think back, I'd have 1:1
    | talks with managers all the time in prior lives but I'm not
    | sure I ever had standing 1:1s. Even at my current company, we
    | often theoretically had regular 1:1s but with travel and
    | other schedules they could end up being every month or two.
 
    | throwway120385 wrote:
    | The only way I've found to have effective 1:1s is to come
    | armed with pointed questions about how things are going, and
    | to actually be aware of what your reports are working on and
    | who they're working with enough to know what questions to
    | ask. They don't work if you're passive. You can surface a lot
    | of vague feelings of unease or satisfaction with initial
    | questions that you can turn into in-depth conversations, and
    | those usually tell you what the person's preferences and
    | areas of growth are.
    | 
    | I think no matter what structure you put in place as a
    | manager you still have to get to know your reports well
    | enough to know what you can and can't confidently ask them to
    | do.
 
  | SkyPuncher wrote:
  | I found 1:1s profoundly helpful as a manager. You get insight
  | into the team and business that you don't get in day to day
  | meetings.
  | 
  | Notably, when you have trust, your reports will tell you what's
  | actually wrong.
 
  | dicriseg wrote:
  | Completely disagree. Some folks are brilliant but aren't going
  | to function well in group settings all of the time. You still
  | need to find a way to listen to what they have to say, and 1x1s
  | accomplish that for many people. Otherwise, group dynamics can
  | just bias toward the loudest or most outgoing.
  | 
  | Not to mention, you also get to just talk nonsense and get to
  | know each other as humans a bit. Some folks enjoy that, me
  | included.
 
    | vsareto wrote:
    | They also find people who don't work out, since folks might
    | be hesitant calling out under performers in a group setting
    | (or frankly putting those thoughts in a discoverable chat app
    | even in DMs)
 
  | hiq wrote:
  | How do you deal with people who don't or barely talk in group
  | settings? Is this just a no-go and they're out?
 
  | wxnx wrote:
  | Any evidence for them being a fad? I definitely remember my
  | parents' generation having dedicated one-on-one meetings with
  | their managers on a regular basis, regardless of what field
  | they were working in (skilled labourers, but none of them in
  | tech).
 
    | [deleted]
 
    | icedchai wrote:
    | The first 15 years of my career, up until roughly 2010, I had
    | no regular 1:1's in tech. Managers were generally more
    | technical also (they would do non-critical path dev work.)
    | Today there is more separation between "people management"
    | and "technical management." Usually one or the other suffers.
 
  | rcme wrote:
  | I agree in principal, but in practice stroking people's egos
  | with personal attention works wonders!
 
  | the-smug-one wrote:
  | >I don't see past great leaders (military and not only) doing
  | 1:1s with the members of their groups.
  | 
  | You don't think Titus Labienus discussed anything one on one
  | with Julius Caesar? That just sounds like insanity.
  | 
  | I want 1:1s, it's the best way that I can make my boss work for
  | me. That stuff gets me raises and promotions.
 
  | epolanski wrote:
  | Any team and organization does 1:1s in some ways regardless of
  | how formal they are and regardless of those being scheduled on
  | your outlook calendar.
  | 
  | Even a chat exchange of ideas or mails qualify as a 1:1.
 
    | ghaff wrote:
    | I probably never had scheduled 1:1s with my manager prior to
    | my current job (and it's been hit or miss when I was
    | traveling a lot) aside from specific events like maybe
    | performance reviews. But had lots of in-person conversations,
    | many with open doors, some not.
 
| somewhereoutth wrote:
| 1:1s are a peculiarly American thing (in my experience) - perhaps
| something to do with the individualistic yet somewhat still old
| fashioned and hierarchical business culture?
| 
| 1:1s are problematic because they discourage/displace lateral
| communication between team members and encourage siloing.
| Everyone has to guess what 'the boss' said to the others, and to
| figure out which piece of the puzzle they've been entrusted with
| - classic oppressive divde and conquer strategy. Of course for
| people who may not be comfortable in social settings, 1:1s may be
| the only thing they can grapple with properly.
 
  | christofosho wrote:
  | I appreciate your opinion and although I disagree, I'm curious
  | about how you handle talking to reports about their careers,
  | the work they've been doing, progress on their goals, problems
  | they are encountering, etc.?
 
    | version_five wrote:
    | All of that sounds like something that could happen annually.
 
  | JTbane wrote:
  | I absolutely despise 1-on-1s. It's either me complaining about
  | corporate policies that I have no power to change (looking at
  | you, WFH) or some feature is a complete dumpster fire and I get
  | lectured about it.
 
  | tstrimple wrote:
  | That's odd. 1:1s shouldn't be used for normal every day work
  | and project activities. It definitely shouldn't be just a
  | status update to your manager. For me they are a way of
  | checking in on longer career and growth goals that can be
  | neglected when caught up in the "real work". They are also
  | where I check in on promotion readiness and ensuring
  | expectations are aligned. Things which you typically _don 't_
  | want the rest of the team in on. Anything directly project
  | related should be either a team meeting or shared via more open
  | communication channels.
 
| justheretoday wrote:
| The other anomaly is that Jensen talks all the time with ICs
| doing the work. I was only a couple of months into working at the
| company before I got to have a face to face discussion with him
| about a project I was working on. I have seen many mid-level
| engineers (IC4-IC5) give him deep dives in these group meetings.
| It can be very stressful being under Jensen's microscope, but it
| dramatically reduces the "let's show pretty slides to the CEO to
| show him everything is good" BS. I was previously at a startup
| 1/100th of this size where the CEO was far less connected to rank
| and file engineers, so it has been a really nice change.
 
  | icedchai wrote:
  | I've been on small teams where the direct manager was
  | completely clueless about the day-to-day work of his 3 or 4
  | reports. These are professional meeting attenders, basically.
  | 10+ years ago this seemed much less common in tech. Management
  | was more technical and CEOs would actually talk to the ICs.
 
| jiggawatts wrote:
| With 40 direct reports, he can pay attention to each one for at
| most about an hour per week on average. (Even if he works crazy
| hours, you have to factor in overheads and other tasks.)
 
  | koolba wrote:
  | Only having your boss bother you for an hour a week doesn't
  | seem so bad.
 
| nipponese wrote:
| Published by "strategy" consultant with no cited sources. Naa.
 
  | dang wrote:
  | Some are listed here:
  | https://twitter.com/petergyang/status/1701644142739349898
  | 
  | I haven't watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5xY_kRKHxE
  | but perhaps someone will be interested enough to.
 
| nine_zeros wrote:
| A lot of modern software management is utter BS with ceremonies
| and processes, all filled with BS work for optics and politics.
| 
| The old-school SV management style of actually being a leader is
| lost these days.
 
  | khazhoux wrote:
  | You're wrong. Not a single piece of working software (literally
  | zero) was shipped before Agile was invented 15 years ago.
 
    | nine_zeros wrote:
    | > You're wrong. Not a single piece of working software
    | (literally zero) was shipped before Agile was invented 15
    | years ago.
    | 
    | You're wrong. Not a single piece of working software
    | (literally zero) was shipped before a combination of Leetcode
    | + agile + performance reviews + feature factory culture +
    | microservices was invented in the last decade.
 
  | greenthrow wrote:
  | Don't blame systems for ineffective leaders. Those leaders
  | would be ineffective under any system.
 
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