[HN Gopher] Show HN: Van, truck or car camp for $0 a night
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Show HN: Van, truck or car camp for $0 a night
 
Author : chaseadam17
Score  : 120 points
Date   : 2023-07-11 20:17 UTC (2 hours ago)
 
web link (www.landcamp.org)
w3m dump (www.landcamp.org)
 
| gffrd wrote:
| > All members are vetted
| 
| By who? There's literally zero information that would make me
| trust this: who's running this, how's it backed up, what proof
| you have that this works.
| 
| But, cool idea. Love the reciprocity focus. Kind of like
| couchsurfing, but shinier?
 
  | vuln wrote:
  | > trust me bro
  | 
  | It's an MVP to capture interest. Simple As.
 
    | gffrd wrote:
    | So, they're missing the V then.
 
| Reubend wrote:
| Looks really interesting! I guess the big disappointment for me
| was that it's actually a $100 annual subscription. I thought from
| your title that it would be free.
 
  | mathgeek wrote:
  | Agreed. Even if it's technically $0 a night, the bait and
  | switch feeling will alienate a lot of folks. Just be honest up
  | front.
 
| solardev wrote:
| So it's kinda like Couchsurfing.com and Warmshowers, but
| expensive ($100/yr) and only for vanlifers? Interesting.
| 
| I like the community peer to peer model, but it kinda feels
| exploitative to put an expensive business layer on top of it.
| What does the $100/yr provide that Couchsurfing's $30/yr doesn't,
| aside from a feeling of exclusivity? Or is that the point, to
| weed out poor vanlifers and allow only rich vacationers to swap
| hosting with each other?
 
  | sfpotter wrote:
  | > Or is that the point, to weed out poor vanlifers and allow
  | only rich vacationers to swap hosting with each other?
  | 
  | I'm gonna go with "yes" purely based on the website's design.
 
    | solardev wrote:
    | It does have that country club, "no need to park with the
    | peasants" vibe to it, doesn't it?
 
  | mrb wrote:
  | "rich vacationers" ? Most American adults can afford $100/year.
  | 
  | Edit: I'll even add: most american adults spend $100 per
  | _month_ , not per year, on frivolous stuff. Fast food. Cable
  | TV. Unnecessary high-end phones (instead of mid-range phones).
  | All these people could definitely afford $100/year.
 
    | solardev wrote:
    | I think that's a pretty privileged viewpoint. That's
    | $100/year of disposable income for maybe a parking spot where
    | you want to go, maybe available when you want to go. That's
    | definitely not a trivial dollar amount for something like
    | that, especially when there are free alternatives (strip mall
    | parking lots, rest stops, federal lands, moving between
    | neighborhoods, etc.). Then there's the question of being able
    | to offer a designated parking spot (hosting) in exchange for
    | staying credits. Paid private parking, especially extra
    | spots, is an absurd luxury in much of the country, for many
    | people.
    | 
    | I knew many people -- climbers, travelers, dirtbaggers,
    | backpackers -- who really wanted to see the public lands that
    | they partially own but could not afford to travel in luxury,
    | people who ate ramen and rice and beans for months just to be
    | able to afford to see the lands. There are also people who
    | live in campers and vans because they can't afford rent. That
    | $100 could definitely go to better uses.
    | 
    | If $100 is nothing to you, perhaps you're the kind of
    | traveler this website is targeting. It's definitely not for
    | everyone. I've met many amazing people on Couchsurfing and
    | Warmshowers, which (at the time) were totally free and still
    | today are much cheaper. The vast majority of the people I
    | hosted were very poor but very well traveled, with stories to
    | tell and friendships across the world. Very few of the rich
    | people I've met have had the same experiences to share.
    | Hosting them was a privilege, and not something I would've
    | wanted to charge them for even if I could. I also met very
    | interesting hosts traveling the same way, because at the end
    | day doing that becomes way more relational and way less
    | transactional -- the opposite of luxury travel.
 
      | jmspring wrote:
      | $100/year, $0.27/day is not in the realm of privilege. The
      | groups you mention spend more than that a year to upgrade
      | gear/etc. I call bollocks on this.
 
        | solardev wrote:
        | I think this is missing the point. It's not "Can I afford
        | $100 for a year's worth of travel", it's that communities
        | have been sharing hosting/staying for a long time
        | already, for free or nearly free. Then suddenly a new
        | company shows up, offers the same service, but now wants
        | to charge hosts and guests $100/yr for doing the same
        | thing as before. Why should they pay that? What does the
        | new company offer?
        | 
        | FWIW, it is a genuine question, and depending on the
        | answer could make the service actually very valuable. For
        | example (only):
        | 
        | * If they manually vet each member not just with a basic
        | ID check (ID.me etc.) but also with a background check
        | and a Zoom interview, or otherwise improve community
        | trust and relationships
        | 
        | * If they provide a built-in calendar/scheduling system
        | and provide support for last-minute cancellations,
        | rebookings, etc.
        | 
        | * If they provide vastly superior UX or support compared
        | to Couchsurfing and Warmshowers
        | 
        | * If they provide support for international travelers,
        | especially for accidents, medical issues, translations,
        | whatever. But so far this seems to be within California
        | only.
        | 
        | But from their website it's not clear that such value-
        | adds are being done, so then the question is not whether
        | $100/yr is affordable, it's what $100/yr gives you that
        | $30/yr does not. If you're rich, that's not a big deal.
        | If you're poor, that $70 a year DOES make a difference.
 
      | renewiltord wrote:
      | Yeah, if I'm going to be honest, if you can't afford
      | $100/yr you can't afford to host, so you're not going to be
      | a contributor to their community. Looks like the filter is
      | working.
 
        | lacrimacida wrote:
        | Not only that but for many, paying $100 a year would
        | bring a sense of security of choosing a legit service,
        | service which could be very unsafe without a proper
        | identification and that's where the registrant's payment
        | could establish some traceability in case something goes
        | bad. Paying $100 also puts a price on account abuse for
        | registrants too. I don't think paying for a service is a
        | bad thing and don't think it is expensive at all. Someone
        | has to maintain the service, even if that's a one dev
        | shop. I don't consider myself priviledged at all as I'm
        | not in a very rosy financial situation and think twice or
        | more before spending any dollar. Ok, I have food and
        | shelter, I'm not dirt poor but do live paycheck to
        | paycheck as modestly as I can. There's an utopic idea of
        | free community service but that requires someone to put
        | work in, either volunteer or pay some.
 
        | solardev wrote:
        | Hosting is actually free (as it should be).
        | 
        | I used to be very active on Couchsurfing and have hosted
        | dozens of travelers -- to rave reviews, and much more
        | often than I stayed. It doesn't cost me anything to share
        | a couch (or a room, on the rare occasion I had a spare).
        | What I'm objecting to is the website taking $100/yr --
        | for what? It's unclear -- on principle, when communities
        | like it have existed for far cheaper and far longer. It
        | seems to exploit both the hosts and the guests. I
        | understand some overhead (especially when it comes to
        | trust and safety) but it's not clear to me why that price
        | point is necessary when alternatives can offer the same
        | service for much less.
 
        | renewiltord wrote:
        | How can hosting possibly be free? You need a parking spot
        | and a restroom to offer.
 
    | kevinsundar wrote:
    | You can't use land camp if you don't own a home / property
    | that has parking space and restrooms. At least after your 3
    | free stays are done.
 
      | notahacker wrote:
      | Or put another way, you pay at least $33/night for the
      | right to park a van in one or more undisclosed locations in
      | California for a maximum of three nights. Not sure how that
      | compares with local campsites cost-wise, but it isn't quite
      | free.
      | 
      | Any additional benefit you may be able to obtain is
      | contingent upon other people wanting to park on your lawn
      | for an equivalent number of nights _first_ , which implies
      | you're probably not in the can't afford a campsite bracket,
      | is probably more hassle than paying for a campsite, and
      | isn't much use if you're looking to stop for four nights
      | somewhere in the near future...
      | 
      | Other sites charge less for the right to stay 365 days a
      | year at thousands of actual photographed locations without
      | being a California homeowner with parking space, and waive
      | the fee if you host.
 
      | mrb wrote:
      | Correct, but solardev was criticizing the $100/yr price,
      | specifically.
 
        | jmspring wrote:
        | And if you own a home, $100 is _NOTHING_ compared to all
        | costs incurred.
 
  | throwawaaarrgh wrote:
  | Couchsurfing's downfall was lack of money (and incredibly poor
  | use of funds) that led to the sale to the bizarre monetizing
  | and "creepy engagement" scheme that ruined it. I would pay
  | $300/yr if it would restore the Couchsurfing community and
  | original site.
  | 
  | If this $100 site led to the kind of community we used to have,
  | it's a bargain. But it's not clear yet whether they will foster
  | a community.
 
    | solardev wrote:
    | I sadly stopped hosting a few years ago. What happened to the
    | community/site? I must've missed that part?
 
| ghuntley wrote:
| I've been doing this for the last couple years down here in
| Australia. Wrote some words over at
| https://ghuntley.com/freecamping/ about where to find spots etc.
 
| supportengineer wrote:
| Genius! And local too. Take my investment dollars.
 
| solardev wrote:
| For anyone looking for actually free, no strings attached (and no
| subscription) camping, check https://freecampsites.net/ instead.
| It's a community wiki of free camp sites, usually on federal
| lands of various sorts (National Forests and BLM lands often have
| primitive campsites with fire rings and not much else). It's
| great for travel around national parks, especially. But please do
| leave no trace, pack out what you bring in.
| 
| Edit: I should add that much of federally protected lands are
| free to camp on, within certain limits that I can't remember
| offhand. Things like no more than X days within a month, must be
| further than Y from a street or river, may or may not need a fire
| permit, etc. Even if undocumented and unlabeled on a map, you can
| typically just pull off the road and camp alongside, perfectly
| legally. It's part of their intended use, though that's never
| really made clear to the public.
| 
| What this website provides isn't the land itself (which is paid
| for by taxpayers) but _curation_ , so you can easily find places
| with a good view, cell reception, fire rings, minimal traffic and
| whatnot. A lot of national lands aren't exactly desirable to camp
| on even if you're totally within your rights to do so.
 
  | tastyfreeze wrote:
  | Not sure if this is true in other states. In Alaska you are
  | allowed to camp on State of Alaska land for 7 days in one
  | location. Often state land is within a few miles of a
  | community. State Parks on the other hand often cost a few bucks
  | a night.
 
  | Magi604 wrote:
  | Wow this resource is amazing. Looks like it works well for
  | Canadian sites too. Thanks for sharing.
 
  | zucked wrote:
  | Everything you wrote is bang on - please, please, PLEASE: Leave
  | no trace. Haul out your garbage. Don't shoot, shit, or camp
  | within 100 yards of streams, creeks, or rivers. Don't make fire
  | rings where they already exist. Abide by fire restrictions that
  | might vary by county. Stay on existing, marked hiking and motor
  | vehicle trails.
  | 
  | As a resident of the West (which has huge swaths of "public"
  | land) I am so tired of folks coming to "camp" on public land
  | and just absolutely trashing the place. We're losing access to
  | land because people can't be bothered to dig proper cat holes
  | for their shit, pick up their trash, and they're just setting
  | up semi-permanent #vanlife outposts. All these great free spots
  | are getting overrun by people who have no common sense and
  | slowly by slowly they're turning into paid, reservable spots.
 
    | jmspring wrote:
    | Also, you leave out (which the comment you mentioned does) -
    | please respect local rules. For instance, in Death Valley,
    | you can free camp most anywhere (refer to NPS guidelines) two
    | miles off of a designated roadway.
 
      | webnrrd2k wrote:
      | But try to be aware of what you're signing up for: Death
      | Valley Germans [0]
      | 
      | [0] https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-
      | rescue/the-hu...
 
      | zucked wrote:
      | Yes - 100%. There is zero excuse for not knowing/abiding by
      | local rules/regulations. The USFS, BLM, and others have
      | troves of information posted online.
      | 
      | A local area has gone to great lengths to put up signage
      | stating that unlicensed off-highway vehicles are NOT
      | ALLOWED to travel the main stretch of USFS fire road. So
      | what are people doing? Screaming up and down that very road
      | on unlicensed off-highway vehicles at 2/3x the posted speed
      | limit. Shooting is supposed to be confined to specific
      | areas with backstops - instead you've got dingbats firing
      | off hundreds of rounds into valleys with NO BACKSTOP and
      | they aren't even cleaning up their brass.
      | 
      | It's a goddamn shit show.
 
        | livueta wrote:
        | To add to all of this great info, to any prospective
        | dispersed campers: please use high-quality, recent,
        | ideally official maps of your choosing to ensure you're
        | on the sort of land you think you are. Boundaries can
        | change and notes on spots aren't always up to date. My
        | area involves a mix of national park, national forest,
        | DNR land, and private land, and I regularly see dispersed
        | campers getting ticketed for unwittingly setting up on
        | the wrong side of the (unmarked) park boundary. That's
        | tame compared to what can happen if you're trespassing on
        | private land.
 
        | solardev wrote:
        | That's a really good point. Although not every agency
        | produces good dispersed campsite maps, they typically do
        | have at least boundary maps on their website.
 
        | zucked wrote:
        | Avenza (iOS/Android app) has done all the heavy lifting -
        | you can download area maps and your position will be
        | shown correctly on the map if you allow location
        | services. Most of the BLM/USFS land I've been to recently
        | produce compatible maps.
 
    | AuthorizedCust wrote:
    | > _Don 't make fire rings where they already exist._
    | 
    | I think you mean that we should _only_ use extant fire rings
    | and not make new ones?
 
    | Aachen wrote:
    | > PLEASE: Leave no trace
    | 
    | Someone once mentioned "Leave it nicer than you found it" as
    | a life philosophy, maybe in relation to Japan? I'm not sure
    | anymore.
    | 
    | I've taken to that, like when going for a forest walk, even
    | if I pick up literally one tiny plastic wrapper, that's still
    | leaving the forest better than I found it. Of course,
    | pristine is pristine, but if there is trash, go for that good
    | feeling and consider an easy thing to do that would improve
    | the situation by any amount!
 
      | jrussino wrote:
      | Thoreau, in Walden, on borrowing an axe: "The owner of the
      | axe, as he released his hold on it, said that it was the
      | apple of his eye; but I returned it sharper than I received
      | it."
      | 
      | A high school English teacher used this passage to impress
      | upon us this same philosophy of "leave it nicer than you
      | found it" (in particular, I remember him telling us that
      | our parents leave us in his care and he saw it as his job
      | to "return us sharper than we were received") and it's one
      | of those rare moments that made such a deep impression on
      | me I remember it often even decades later.
 
      | aloisdg wrote:
      | I know this one as the boy scouts rule: always leave the
      | campground cleaner than you found it.
      | 
      | Kind of true for codebase too
 
  | KMnO4 wrote:
  | Freecampsites.net is fantastic (minus the UI which leaves a lot
  | to be desired, and can be problematic on mobile). I used it
  | extensively over the past two months as I roadtripped across
  | Colorado/Utah/Arizona/Nevada. It has a neat trip planner
  | feature where you put your route and it will show you all the
  | places along the route where you can camp.
  | 
  | It's not a complete source of information since it's community
  | submitted, so I often cross-reference these other two sites:
  | 
  | https://freeroam.app
  | 
  | https://www.campendium.com/
  | 
  | It's important to read the reviews of each campsite, since
  | sometimes they will say things like "road is inaccessible
  | without a high clearance vehicle" or "now private land; camping
  | is no longer possible".
  | 
  | Also, make sure you pick a few nice places and jot down their
  | coordinates BEFORE you get there. In my experience, most BLM
  | land doesn't have the best (if any) cell service, so YMMV.
 
| Paul_S wrote:
| This could work if it was community run and not for profit. A
| business running this has the wrong incentives.
 
| cypherpunks01 wrote:
| Cool idea! I suppose Couchsurfing is a bit of a philosophical
| predecessor here, but with more of an outdoor/camping bent to it.
 
| jmspring wrote:
| The van equivalent of couchsurfing.org. I'm going to go with they
| probably are flaunting local laws as to where people can park.
 
  | [deleted]
 
| JimtheCoder wrote:
| "No Social Obligations"
| 
| What does that mean exactly? Or do I want to know...
 
  | [deleted]
 
| halfstar91 wrote:
| What happens if nobody wants to use your spot to stay in?
| Presumably you never build up credits and can't use the service
| effectively.
 
  | fishtoaster wrote:
  | Probably an interesting business challenge. I could see a few
  | options:
  | 
  | 1. Add the ability to buy credits. Hurts the "community"
  | aspect, but gets around that problem and acts as a revenue
  | stream.
  | 
  | 2. "Joe Smith is a new host! Camp at his place for zero credits
  | in exchange for writing a review!"
  | 
  | 3. Just accept that people in undesirable locations don't get
  | to use the tool.
 
| fishtoaster wrote:
| This has the feel of a site someone set up to gauge interest
| based on signups, rather than something that actually exists.
| I've never been quite sure how I feel about those: smart product
| testing or disingenuous bait-and-switch?
 
  | JimtheCoder wrote:
  | "disingenuous bait-and-switch?"
  | 
  | It's usually done without the actual company name or final
  | "brand", so you wouldn't even know about it.
  | 
  | I guess these guys didn't get the memo, if this is actually a
  | "demand gauging" website...
 
  | mtmail wrote:
  | That's the new first step for startups: build a landing page,
  | collect email addresses, only then start building a product.
  | Hard to judge from the outside how much already exists (the
  | first big image is a stock photo).
  | 
  | https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html says signup pages and
  | waiting lists are usually off-topic.
 
    | shkkmo wrote:
    | Rights, so if this is only a sign up page for a waiting list,
    | then this post is not allowed as a Show HN
 
| pokstad wrote:
| Similar to harvesthosts.com or boondockerswelcome.com
 
| coding123 wrote:
| $100? what is this paying for. surely $100 from one user can pay
| for the RDS instance and hosting for the entire year.
| 
| boondockers welcome was free for a long time before they
| introduced a fee. then they were $30 per year, and now $79.
| 
| What makes you better - a newer website, a shorter domain name?
| more chic graphics?
 
| muti wrote:
| 1 host = 1 credit looks like a problem, similar to how it can be
| hard to build up ratio on well established private torrent
| trackers. The distribution of credits will not be even with many
| hosts building up credits for some nebulous future trip. How do
| those actually travelling around earn credits past the first 3
| complimentary?
| 
| Bonus point systems or just ignoring ratio solved this from my
| pov for trackers, the 1 to 1 ratio stood out as something that
| would need a solution long term.
 
| nicpottier wrote:
| I'm interested but $100/yr kind of sounds like a lot. Is it free
| to host? I wouldn't mind building up credits for a road trip
| later if I didn't have to pay. Also maybe a monthly price would
| make more sense as I tend to be on the road only for periods at a
| time. (or maybe even a per-booking fee?)
| 
| Anyways, yearly sub is kind of a non-starter for me though I like
| the concept.
 
  | barbazoo wrote:
  | > I'm interested but $100/yr kind of sounds like a lot. Is it
  | free to host?
  | 
  | Sounds like it is... maybe?
  | 
  | > Membership is free if you only want to host (great traffic
  | for businesses like breweries)
 
  | benatkin wrote:
  | It sounds like too little to avoid hosting people who don't
  | have a place where host. Someone could pretend another non-host
  | user is hosting them and both could use the credits to stay
  | with actual hosts. Or they could host someone in the same place
  | where they're staying that they don't own or rent.
 
| VoodooJuJu wrote:
| Nice design. One big thing though, when making an MVP, make sure
| the Product is actually Minimally Viable, because if it's not,
| it's just deceiving, which starts you off in a position of
| negative trust with the prospect. Trust is difficult, sometimes
| impossible to earn earn back.
 
| yuvadam wrote:
| I tried to build a community once with just a landing page and a
| contact form, it'll be hard - borderline impossible - to
| bootstrap like that.
| 
| Nice design though.
 
| totallywrong wrote:
| $400 per night for a 2-stars hotel? Is that really the case? That
| sounds absolutely insane, even for most 5-stars.
 
| [deleted]
 
| walrus01 wrote:
| We've gone from SNL making a skit about "LIVING IN A VAN, DOWN BY
| THE RIVER" to people on instagram doing #vanlife influencer stuff
| about how trendy it is to live in a converted van.
 
  | nonrepeating wrote:
  | #vanlife at least aspires to some level of tidy and
  | conscientious housekeeping. Motivational speaker Matt Foley
  | doesn't have a string of solar-powered faerie lights adorning
  | his collapsible breakfast nook. He has a clattering drift of
  | beer cans that he can gather up around him for warmth.
 
| mbgerring wrote:
| Hi, as a former employee of Couchsurfing, I just want to say:
| it's great that you're thinking about revenue and reciprocity
| upfront.
 
| impissedoff1 wrote:
| Boo, sounds like an email harvest
 
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