|
| yieldcrv wrote:
| Friendly reminder:
|
| A government agency isn't a better authority on the law than your
| own lawyers are, if you're rich enough to access the courts.
|
| The agencies, including the white house, offer one interpretation
| of the law, _and they don 't know your interpretation_. Make it
| expensive for them to disagree with you and they will likely back
| off. But also be prepared to continue that fight in court in case
| they didnt back off. They theoretically have unlimited resources
| but are frugal.
| gridspy wrote:
| The difference is subtle
|
| > One of these specified conditions is that the photocopy or
| reproduction is not to be "used for any purpose other than
| private study, scholarship, or research."
|
| "[I]s not to be used for any purpose other than" sounds very
| restrictive. However the language from the statute is the
| opposite
|
| > The fair use of a copyrighted work, ... for purposes such as
| criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple
| copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an
| infringement of copyright.
|
| This sounds like the opposite. A list of times when fair use is
| OK.
|
| The article could benefit from further discussion of this subtle
| distinction, as a librarian I think the writer assumes we already
| know exactly why this message is incorrect.
|
| From my interpretation the message seems to "remove" several of
| the examples in the statute from the message, for instance news
| reporting. I think that is the concern here, along with the
| mandate that libraries then promulgate this subtle
| misinformation.
| paulddraper wrote:
| This requirement comes not from the copyright office, but
| straight from the 17 USC 108:
|
| "(e) The rights of reproduction and distribution...made from the
| collection of a library or archives where the user makes his or
| her request or from that of another library or archives, if the
| library or archives has first determined, on the basis of a
| reasonable investigation, that a copy or phonorecord of the
| copyrighted work cannot be obtained at a fair price, if-
|
| "(1) the copy or phonorecord becomes the property of the user,
| and the library or archives has had no notice that the copy or
| phonorecord would be used for any purpose other than private
| study, scholarship, or research; and
|
| "(2) the library or archives displays prominently, at the place
| where orders are accepted, and includes on its order form, a
| warning of copyright in accordance with requirements that the
| Register of Copyrights shall prescribe by regulation."
|
| The author's issue is primarily with the inconsistency of the law
| itself.
| bee_rider wrote:
| It seems like basic CYA text for the libraries?
|
| > Under certain conditions specified in the law, libraries and
| archives are authorized to furnish a photocopy or other
| reproduction. One of these specified conditions is that the
| photocopy or reproduction is not to be "used for any purpose
| other than private study, scholarship, or research." If a user
| makes a request for, or later uses, a photocopy or reproduction
| for purposes in excess of "fair use," that user _may_ be liable
| for copyright infringement.
|
| Emphasis mine. Of course it is possible to commit some sort of
| copyright infringement using a document copied in a library. You
| are being reminded of the fact that you could use this service
| provided by the library to commit a some copyright violation, the
| fact that the library helped you doesn't magically change the
| law.
| PraetorianGourd wrote:
| It seems to me that there are a few caveats that may explain
| this.
|
| The first is that the blurb covers _furnishing_ the
| archival/photocopy, not creating the copy itself. This is more
| akin to whether I can give a friend a copy of a book I purchased,
| as opposed to the act of photocopying it myself. That is to say,
| it is okay to provide a photocopied version of a copyrighted
| document, but only under certain usage circumstances as defined
| by fair use doctrine.
|
| The other aspect may simply be laziness. Perhaps it could be read
| as:
|
| > [institutions such as] libraries and archives are authorized to
| furnish a photocopy or other reproduction
|
| Either way, I think "requires libraries to lie" is a bit
| sensationalist.
| mrbabbage wrote:
| I realize the headline is designed to be attention-grabbing, but
| "lie" is pretty strong given the warning's actual text.
|
| Could the warning be better phrased? Almost certainly--it's a
| four-sentence digest, designed for a lay audience, of an
| incredibly complicated area of law (copyright fair use). But the
| warning itself is completely accurate: There are conditions where
| reproducing a copyrighted work (which otherwise infringe's the
| owner's exclusive right of reproduction) is acceptable. And "one
| of these specified conditions" (quoting from the warning) is for
| scholarship. It's not the only such condition!
|
| To me, this feels like the author is making a mountain out of a
| molehill.
| bombcar wrote:
| It sounds to me like this wording is left over from previous
| copyright regimes/laws, where libraries were explicitly allowed
| to do things "against the law" for "private study, scholarship,
| or research" - all of which has been supplanted by fair use and
| Xerox.
|
| (I'm thinking things like asking the librarian to hand-copy down
| pages from a book in the 1800s or similar.)
| crazygringo wrote:
| The headline/interpretation seems incorrect.
|
| Copying for "private study, scholarship, or research"
| _specifically by libraries_ is permitted by SS108 [1], while fair
| use is permitted by SS107 [2]. These are separate concepts.
|
| Libraries are not intended for photocopying of materials for all
| possible fair use cases; they're only intended for "private
| study, scholarship, or research" purposes.
|
| So the sign correctly indicates what's allowed per _library_
| policy; it also correctly indicates you have _additional_ rights
| per _fair use_ policy and warns not to go beyond _those_.
|
| (A good example is that a teacher can use a _private /school_
| photocopier to make 30 copies of material for classroom use
| according to fair use; but you're not allowed to use the
| _library_ photocopier to make more than 1 copy of anything.)
|
| [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/108
|
| [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/107
| NoZebra120vClip wrote:
| > A good example is that a teacher can use a private/school
| photocopier to make 30 copies of material for classroom use
| according to fair use
|
| I disbelieve that this is the case, for copyrighted material;
| this is not supported by your citations, and that behavior (30
| copies in a classroom) seems like a flagrant violation, in
| fact, and although most teachers wouldn't generally get in
| trouble with it, most teachers also tend to steer clear of
| violations like this. A teacher either obtains permission, or
| uses public domain materials, or finds some other way to convey
| the information to their students.
|
| In fact I researched this when I was teaching a class, and I
| wanted to use some copyrighted handouts. I was able to obtain
| permission from a local blogger to use her article and
| distribute it to the whole class. In fact, she was very glad
| that I'd asked. I was less successful in contacting a
| publishing house overseas and obtaining permission for their
| stuff. So I didn't copy it.
| dang wrote:
| Ok, we've appended a question mark to the title, which is a
| trick we sometimes use to mitigate questionable titles (on
| otherwise interesting articles).
| gridspy wrote:
| > Does the U.S. Copyright Office require libraries to lie
| about fair use rights?
|
| The grammar is bothering me.
|
| Thanks for your moderation either way.
| dang wrote:
| If you 'hear' it out loud I think it sounds better?
| batshibstein wrote:
| I'm Ron Burgundy?
| HWR_14 wrote:
| Might I suggest adding some other mark as well to indicate it
| was an addition to the title. When I read it, I first assumed
| the original source had the question mark.
|
| Maybe:
|
| [?]
|
| or
|
| *?*
| treeman79 wrote:
| My wife's a teacher. School Printer /Photocopier drama was such
| a stress point for her that her Christmas present was her own
| high end laser / copy machine.
| londons_explore wrote:
| But the notice attached to any library-produced copy should
| therefore presumably refer to the rights of the reader (ie. the
| member of the public), rather than the library.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| It's basically a disclaimer limiting how you can use the
| library to make copies. You still have fair use, but the
| library won't copy documents for you outside of their own
| limitations.
| cvoss wrote:
| The user is welcome to investigate their own rights on their
| own time. The government has no interest in that here. The
| government has a different interest.
|
| The library is furnishing a powerful tool to users: the
| ability to make copies readily. The government's ability to
| police or regulate this tool so that it complies with
| copyright law is extremely limited. The government's options
| are to ban the tool outright, or to permit the tool while
| impressing a scary warning upon the user, hoping law-abiders
| will exercise self-control. "If you do something potentially
| illegal, then you are potentially liable for something
| illegal." It's a tautological warning, but it still has an
| effect. And the way they can force the library to communicate
| the scary warning to the end user is by conditioning the
| library's liability on the posting of the warning.
| mindslight wrote:
| No, the government does not have an interest in creating a
| chilling effect that goes far beyond the actual law.
| Rather, it's commercial copyright holders who have that
| interest, and they lobbied the government to include this
| scary warning.
| majormajor wrote:
| The library has an interest in Big Scary Warning because
| the US has an adversarial legal system which makes it
| easy for people to cost other people $$$$ on legal fees
| about stupid shit.
|
| You could get these signs with the following path with no
| lobbying at all:
|
| 1) Library puts out copier with no signage
|
| 2) Someone makes a bunch of copies of something and
| starts selling them to people they know
|
| 3) That person gets in trouble
|
| 4) That person gets angry and lawyers up "how was I
| supposed to know I couldn't do this, they let me use the
| machine, they need to indemnify me against this!!"
|
| 5) Library wastes money defending this and someone says
| "ugh let's just put up a stupid sign to deter the fools"
| Dalewyn wrote:
| Something to keep in mind is that governments in the US
| govern at the pleasure of the people so governed. "We the
| people", as it says in the Preamble of the US
| Constitution.
|
| So if the government has an interest in enforcing
| copyright, that's because the people (whether or not they
| are intellectual property holders themselves) told the
| government to enforce copyright.
| theknocker wrote:
| [dead]
| ftxbro wrote:
| In general what if there are laws that contradict so by
| definition you are breaking one of them? Does this create a
| purge-like situation where no law applies and you can do anything
| at will even unrestrained riotous rampage through the city.
| cvoss wrote:
| The author has misread the statute. The notice and the statutory
| language from which it derives (Title 17, sec. 108 (d) and (e))
| are about the conditions under which the _library_ is released
| from liability for copyright violations. No statement is made
| about conditions under which the _user_ is released from
| copyright liability.
|
| Each paragraph in 108 lays out various situations under which
| libraries and archives are permitted to furnish copies without
| liability (without this, no library would dare).
|
| Paragraphs (d) and (e) are the relevant ones (dealing with one
| component of a larger collection or to an entire work if
| necessary, respectively). Clause (1) of each paragraph describes
| a situation where the copy is to become property of the user
| making the request (so, I walk up to a copy machine, make a copy,
| and take possession of the copy). In this situation, the library
| is released from liability if two conditions hold: a) "the
| library ... has had no notice that the copy ... would be used for
| any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research".
| (Note that this is the source of the quote in the posted notice.)
| Naturally, that condition holds for self-service copy machines.
| b) "the library ... displays prominently ... a warning of
| copyright...". Said warning just recaps 108 (d) and (e).
|
| I do not find any lie here.
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