[HN Gopher] A barista fought to unionize her Starbucks. Now she'...
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A barista fought to unionize her Starbucks. Now she's out of a job
 
Author : mirthlessend
Score  : 22 points
Date   : 2023-06-17 19:20 UTC (3 hours ago)
 
web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
 
| a_shovel wrote:
| Honestly, not surprised. Starbucks's strategy on unions seems to
| be to union-bust as viciously as possible with the thinnest of
| pretenses, and trust that the federal government will let them do
| it with a slap on the wrist (if anything), as it always has.
| 
| > _It's against the law to fire workers for organizing. But as
| Rizzo and the other Starbucks workers were learning, there's also
| little to stop companies from doing it. The National Labor
| Relations Board, the federal agency that oversees union elections
| and protects workers' rights, has struggled to hold on to staff
| members amid deep budget cuts. Since 2010, it is down about 520
| employees, or 30 percent of its workforce. The primary penalty
| that it can impose on companies for dismissing pro-union
| employees -- reinstatement with back pay -- has been a paltry
| deterrent, labor advocates said._
| 
| This punishment is so tiny it fails to qualify as a penalty at
| all.
 
  | sneak wrote:
  | Make it a criminal offense for the person doing the firing, and
  | then you'll see some changes.
 
| houseatrielah wrote:
| The margins are so good on coffee (its a morning ritual, its a
| drug, and so on), and yet the employees are still driven to
| unionize -- why? Is it because all profits accrue to
| shareholders? Are there other reasonable explanations?
 
  | allset_ wrote:
  | > Is it because all profits accrue to shareholders?
  | 
  | Yeah.
 
  | malfist wrote:
  | There is no amount of money that you could give a billionaire
  | to make them want to pay their employees more.
  | 
  | There is no cap on wealth, nothing is ever enough for them.
  | Aside from external forces they'd hire as few people as
  | possible and as cheaply as possible
 
    | operatingthetan wrote:
    | It would be nice if we could collectively stop worshiping
    | them and realize they represent a sickness in our society.
 
| BenFranklin100 wrote:
| In my opinion, instead of trying to unionize these low margin
| retail jobs, an alternative approach is to encourage younger
| people to go into the trades. The economics of service jobs make
| it an uphill battle for the employers to ever pay living wages.
| Jobs in trades on the other hand pay very well and are in high
| demand. It's not a bad thing overall for barista jobs to be part
| time or starter jobs, while people prepare for careers that do
| pay well.
 
  | mft_ wrote:
  | > The economics of service jobs make it an uphill battle for
  | the employers to ever pay living wages.
  | 
  | And yet in some countries, low-end service workers receive
  | reasonable (i.e. meaningfully higher than the US) salaries,
  | paid vacations, and a pension scheme. [0]
  | 
  | [0] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mcdonalds-workers-
  | denmark/
 
    | [deleted]
 
  | t-writescode wrote:
  | I would still argue that anyone who works a living number of
  | work hours deserves a living wage. Anything less is taking
  | advantage of another person to make the recipient of that
  | benefit more comfortable.
 
    | BenFranklin100 wrote:
    | That's noble of you, but the economics don't work for all
    | types of job. If all jobs must pay a living wage, many entry-
    | level and lower-paid part time jobs will simply go away.
    | Among other things, this will increase youth unemployment and
    | negatively impact people with poorer backgrounds who are
    | trying to work their way up to a good career.
 
      | autoexec wrote:
      | > That's noble of you, but the economics don't work for all
      | types of job. If all jobs must pay a living wage, many
      | entry-level and lower-paid part time jobs will simply go
      | away.
      | 
      | If a business requires someone to spend 40 hours a week
      | doing something, but cannot afford to pay them a living
      | wage then that business should close. They are a failure
      | and should get out of the way so that a competent business
      | owner can replace them. Exploiting workers should not be
      | keeping failed businesses afloat. Starbucks does not have
      | this problem. They're just exploiting workers to stuff
      | their own pockets and could easily ensure that their
      | employees are all able to afford to live on their wages.
      | 
      | There was a time, not very long ago, when a single person
      | could support themselves and a family on their wages.
      | Paying a full time employee so little that they can't even
      | support themselves should be illegal.
      | 
      | All this "think of the children" nonsense ignores the fact
      | that most jobs paying minimum wage are not held by
      | children, and that most kids don't need full time hours
      | (and arguably shouldn't work that long anyway since they
      | have school) and anyone, even someone in an entry level
      | position, still absolutely deserves a living wage for their
      | time.
 
      | fnimick wrote:
      | Why does it work in other countries then?
 
        | Master_Odin wrote:
        | Because other countries are not so filled with
        | temporarily embarrassed millionaires as the US and they
        | need to maintain the status quo in case they ever
        | accidentally stumble back into "their" wealth.
 
        | [deleted]
 
      | fzeroracer wrote:
      | The economics already don't work. For example there are
      | many jobs currently where they struggle to find workers
      | because the pay is so low and no one wants to do it. Rather
      | than raise wages, they're instead hiring children, often
      | illegally and lobbying to get the regulations lessened.
      | 
      | Companies will do anything to avoid raising wages so they
      | need to be forced to the table to do so.
 
        | kazen44 wrote:
        | or the people working the jobs need govermental handouts
        | to basically survive. Which actually means the business
        | isn't competitive and can only exist by socializing it's
        | losses.
        | 
        | If the goverment needs to provide food stamps for your
        | employees so they don't get into financial trouble, and
        | your bussines cannot or will not provide them with a
        | living wage. The bussiness should simply cease to exist.
 
      | mft_ wrote:
      | That a higher minimum wage causes job losses is a long-held
      | but unproven economic theory, and attempts to study it have
      | suggested it might be wrong.
      | 
      |  _"...that have deepened the amount of data that shows the
      | original theory about the minimum wage causing job losses
      | is likely wrong. "_ [0]
      | 
      | [0] https://theconversation.com/does-raising-the-minimum-
      | wage-ki...
 
        | BenFranklin100 wrote:
        | You seem to have conflated the minimum wage discussion
        | with the living wage discussion.
 
        | t-writescode wrote:
        | Per my argument, anyone working a living amount of time
        | should earn a living wage. Since someone working 2, 20
        | hour a week jobs is working a living amount of time, they
        | should also be paid a living wage.
        | 
        | Since those two jobs won't know about each other, the
        | exact number of hours should not have an impact on your
        | per hour wage.
        | 
        | Therefore the minimum wage should be the living wage.
 
        | mft_ wrote:
        | No conflation.
        | 
        | The living wage is a concept --a wage level required to
        | achieve a certain standard of living-- rather than an
        | instrument.
        | 
        | You wrote: _" If all jobs must pay a living wage..."_ -
        | and it therefore follows that if all jobs pay a wage
        | level at least that of a 'living wage', then the living
        | wage becaomes the effective minimum wage paid by all
        | jobs.
        | 
        | Therefore evidence regarding the effects of a higher
        | minimum wage are entirely relevant to a discussion of
        | paying everyone _at least_ a (higher) living wage.
 
      | klyrs wrote:
      | Starbucks' revenue in 2022 was $33B. Their profit was $22B.
      | That is an incredibly high margin for retail. These jobs
      | wouldn't evaporate if Starbucks was paying a living wage.
 
        | DaveExeter wrote:
        | Where did you get those numbers from?
        | 
        | Obviously Starbucks has massive margins but I can't
        | imagine that massive!
 
| dakial1 wrote:
| >According to the document, she had been "1 minute late" to a 6
| a.m. shift.
| 
| In Brazil this kind of argument for dismissal would not hold in
| labour court at all.
| 
| Specially when employers report hours in what the Brazilian
| justice call "british timing", where employees clock-in and
| clock-out at the exact hour. Brazilian Justice expects a natural
| 10 to 15 minute range (to both sides) here...
 
  | klipklop wrote:
  | Believe it or not being slightly late is commonly used to fire
  | union employees in the US as well.
  | 
  | Usually the union and business come to an agreement on such
  | policies. These are then enforced with no exceptions. Even for
  | 20 year employees.
  | 
  | There is zero flexibility or nuance for special situations. If
  | your employer does not like you in the US they will do petty
  | things like fire you for being 1 minute late. The best the
  | union can do is make it so you have to be 1 minute late several
  | times before you are canned.
 
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