[HN Gopher] Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk int...
___________________________________________________________________
 
Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its
playgrounds (2021)
 
Author : mschuster91
Score  : 194 points
Date   : 2023-03-19 16:06 UTC (6 hours ago)
 
web link (www.theguardian.com)
w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
 
| zabzonk wrote:
| I don't know, kids these days. You should have seen what we had
| to contend with in the 60s - huge lumps of flesh mangling metal,
| swinging at terrifying angles, throwing small children off in all
| directions. And no wimpy rubber mats to catch them. Sometimes, I
| wonder that I survived.
 
  | munchler wrote:
  | I took a steel see-saw to the face on one of those playgrounds
  | in the 1970's. My little sister pulled her end down, which
  | caused my end to shoot up unexpectedly. Ouch. Ruined my day for
  | sure.
 
    | grogenaut wrote:
    | I let my brother (6?) unsupervised for one minute and some
    | much larger kid got on the other side jumped up and when they
    | came back down my brothers face smashed into the metal pipe
    | handle bars splitting his lip wide open, he came right over
    | streaming blood, I was 8, so I immediately went to find mom
    | and dad who were doing champion hunting dog obedience
    | qualifiers and I think I saw dad first who was actually
    | showing the dog at the time and walked into the show area to
    | get him. Immediately to the hospital. Pretty sure dad was
    | non-plussed but also pouring blood.
 
    | zabzonk wrote:
    | better than an arrow to the knee, i guess :-)
 
  | 123pie123 wrote:
  | reminds me of when I was a kid in the UK, there was these
  | places that was called 'funhouses' where kids was supposed to
  | play, I was seriously terrified of dying. I'm unsure if it's my
  | memory and/or if I was just too young
 
    | swimfar wrote:
    | I've heard stories from relatives about a funhouse like that
    | on Coney Island. Supposedly there was a dark maze section
    | with clowns that would walk around and shock you. As I got
    | older I assumed some of it had to be made up. But at least
    | part of the story is corroborated in this article about the
    | Steeplechase Park:
    | 
    | https://www.westland.net/coneyisland/articles/steeplechase2..
    | ..
 
      | 123pie123 wrote:
      | thanks - I wonder how many unrecorded near deaths or
      | injuries there where - I'm assuming back then if you
      | complained you was classed as a coward - different world!
 
    | zabzonk wrote:
    | don't know about funhouse, but playgrounds were very scary.
    | the most scary one, which would intimadate a brave man
    | (amongst whom i was living - RAF pilots) was called "the
    | boat" (if i remember correctly) which was a steel plank
    | (which you sat on), supported by 4 steel struts, attached,
    | swiveling, to a steel frame. it took some effort to get this
    | monster swinging (like sitting on a normal swing and doing
    | the stuff you do) but once it got going the momentum was
    | tremendous. there was limiting mechanism to stop it going
    | over the top. most kids too terrified to ride it to that
    | point (humiliating admission: i was too scared).
    | 
    | the other scary thing you could do with it was to grab hold
    | of the plank on the up-swing, which would boost you high in
    | the air. you had to have a nice touch of judgement on where
    | you let go, if you didn't want multiple broken bones.
 
  | ianlevesque wrote:
  | Literally survivor bias!
 
  | screwturner68 wrote:
  | maybe it's just my old man memory but when I was young in the
  | 70's there was always one or two kids in a cast, usually a
  | broken arm -it was a bit of a badge of honor and something for
  | everyone to sign. Now I almost never see a kid in a cast maybe
  | medicine has gotten a lot better and things seem to have had
  | the entire danger aspect removed from them. I wonder if play
  | today is boring or there is so much safety that kids don't
  | think anything about doing something stupid since they can't
  | get hurt.
 
    | runnerup wrote:
    | 90's as well. Lots of casts. I didn't get one so I'm not sure
    | how to judge the risk-reward.
 
    | johannes1234321 wrote:
    | I won't judge how the risk and injuries has changed. But
    | medicine changed. The strict tied cascing is done less and
    | for shorter periods these days. There are lighter and smaller
    | orthoses these days, which can be worn under clothing and
    | allow some flexibility.
 
    | loganc2342 wrote:
    | As a 2000s/2010s kid, I would word it the same way you did:
    | "there was always one or two kids in a cast." If your wording
    | is accurate to your experience then I don't think much has
    | changed. If you don't physically work in a school then it's a
    | tough pattern to monitor.
 
| daverol wrote:
| These people are amateurs: The USA lead the way:
| https://clickamericana.com/topics/family-parenting/life-for-...
 
| t344344 wrote:
| Playgrounds in Germany (and EU) are pretty safe. Child may fall,
| but there are no sharp corners, and ground is covered with grovel
| or rubber.
 
| chmod775 wrote:
| These things are ubiquitous in Berlin: https://stage.berliner-
| seilfabrik.com/wp-content/uploads/201...
| 
| They're not actually that high to an adult, but I have childhood
| memories of these seeming somewhat tall and scary. On an average
| one, a young child can fall 4-6 times their own height (but not
| straight, you'll get buffered by the structure as you go down).
 
  | danieldk wrote:
  | Also in The Netherlands, our kid's after-school care playground
  | has one. There is a quite tall one at another playground:
  | 
  | https://speleninstad.nl/mooiste-speeltuinen/speelplek-hoorns...
  | 
  | I grew up in a smaller village. We often climbed trees. I am
  | pretty sure that this is safer.
 
    | [deleted]
 
    | koen_hendriks wrote:
    | [dead]
 
  | moonchrome wrote:
  | > They're not actually that high to an adult
  | 
  | Not the ones we have here in Croatia :
  | https://fastly.4sqi.net/img/general/width960/57918118_91NXEE...
 
    | rollcat wrote:
    | Is this Bundek? I love the place
 
    | nixass wrote:
    | Then there's this in Zagreb (Maksimir), which wasn't intended
    | for climbing ever, but we as kids certainly did it
    | 
    | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Park_Mak.
    | ..
 
    | Aulig wrote:
    | Looks very similar to one we have in Karlsruhe, Germany :) ht
    | tps://mein.toubiz.de/api/v1/media/6d3f180e-13b0-4346-b142-...
 
  | PoignardAzur wrote:
  | Pretty common in Paris too.
  | 
  | I wish they made versions that were socially acceptable for
  | adults to climb. These things were _awesome_.
 
    | grayclhn wrote:
    | Climbing gym :)
 
    | Rebelgecko wrote:
    | IIRC there's one in San Antonio that isn't explicitly just
    | for children
 
    | matsemann wrote:
    | I'm only semi-joking, but perhaps join an obstacle course
    | race, or a gymnastics class for adults. I've done both, and
    | it's been so much fun. The obstacle course is all kinds of
    | weird things you have to climb over and under (I'd avoid the
    | mud variants, unless you like that aspect, though). And even
    | though I never did gymnastics as a kid and am stiff as a
    | stick, it was great fun to play around in a big hall with
    | other equally bad adults trying to do gymnastics, climb
    | ropes, forward rolls, jump into foam pits etc.
    | 
    | Like being a kid again.
 
      | throwaway742 wrote:
      | Sounds awesome. A big thing for me would be finding a non-
      | serious group. I just want to have fun.
 
    | ryanjshaw wrote:
    | The town I grew up in the 90s had much bigger versions of
    | these. I'm not sure exactly how tall they were, but based on
    | this photo [1] and my memories they were probably around
    | 10-15m tall.
    | 
    | [1] https://www.dynamoplaygrounds.com/understanding-climbing-
    | net...
 
    | dj_mc_merlin wrote:
    | I just climb them regardless when no kids are around.
 
    | Sharlin wrote:
    | Nighttime, walking from a bar or whatever in a group of
    | buzzed, happy young-ish adults (bonus points if you're
    | students), climbing these becomes perfecly socially
    | acceptable :D
 
    | renewiltord wrote:
    | There are a few in SF. After a night of clubbing, high and
    | drunk we'd fall around on them after dark till one of us
    | spotted a guard and then we'd walk away (the guard not
    | wanting any trouble as much as us).
    | 
    | In any case, the more socially acceptable way is the Spartan
    | Race or a CrossFit gym.
 
  | rokizero wrote:
  | Childhood memories! Our playground had the same version shown
  | in the linked image.
  | 
  | You were considered cool when you dared to jump off the highest
  | possible standing position. The wood chips softened the fall
  | :-)
 
  | LeanderK wrote:
  | I think common in whole germany, but maybe not ubiquitous. I
  | certainly remember them well and in my imagination they were
  | giant!
 
  | kspacewalk2 wrote:
  | We've got these in many newer playgrounds in Canada. They're
  | awesome and always full of kids.
 
  | TheHappyOddish wrote:
  | Not ubiquitous, but certainly common in Australia.
 
  | fs111 wrote:
  | I know at least two in Berlin that are pretty high even for
  | adults. One is at John-Foster-Dulless-Allee in the Tiergarten
  | the other next to Fritz-Schloss-Park in Moabit.
 
| mpweiher wrote:
| "... it's the strict policing of standards that enables a risk-
| accepting culture in the first place."
| 
| Doesn't just apply to playgrounds.
 
| hirundo wrote:
| They are lowering the long term risk of too little short term
| risk, an unsafe excess of safety. This is a kind of behavioral
| hormesis. The dose/response curve of a potential toxin is seldom
| linear, including for jungle gyms.
 
| auggierose wrote:
| This is nothing new. These exist in Germany since at least 1985,
| and can be pretty high. Source: Climbed on them. Never fell.
 
| dayjaby wrote:
| Me as a 31 year old I climbed exactly this one with my young
| nephews.
| 
| Berlin Frohnau is a very rich part of Berlin, so finding this
| quality of playgrounds is not that typical in Germany.
 
| EGreg wrote:
| Compare to USA in the early 1900s:
| https://www.vintag.es/2017/02/how-we-came-to-play-pictures-o...
 
| mschuster91 wrote:
| To add to the submission: I think there is one huge part why this
| is possible in the first place compared to the US, and the
| article just barely scrapes onto it: insurance.
| 
| Like, when a kid gets injured here in Germany, mandatory
| healthcare insurance picks up the cost, and even if the
| maintainer can be held liable it's a few thousand euros in
| damages ("Schmerzensgeld") at most.
| 
| In contrast, in the US healthcare insurances try to avoid paying
| up however possible, including shit such as forcing people to sue
| their family for healthcare cost. A paranoidly risk-averse
| society is the only thing that this can end up.
 
| dllthomas wrote:
| I remember playing on this as a child:
| https://playgroundology.wordpress.com/2018/06/29/whats-in-a-...
| 
| Mixed feelings about it being unavailable to my children.
 
| 6_6_6 wrote:
| too little too late
 
| andrewfromx wrote:
| This makes me think of this article
| https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/04/hey-par...
| 
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14241813
 
| _Microft wrote:
| There were some comments in a 2021 submission, among them one
| with links to a manufacturer's website that has good pictures of
| playground structures.
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28978056
 
| [deleted]
 
| janmarsal wrote:
| I remember when I was a teen I started noticing how the nanny
| state had managed to remove all the old swings I used to play
| with and replaced them with some tiny and safe swings that no one
| even uses anymore. Children even started wearing yellow safety
| vests to school all of a sudden. I'm glad there's at least some
| backlash to this nonsense.
 
  | mschuster91 wrote:
  | > Children even started wearing yellow safety vests to school
  | all of a sudden.
  | 
  | Given how many accidents happen on the way to school
  | ("Schulwegunfalle", yes we have a dedicated word for it), it's
  | absolutely necessary. 62k accidents in 2021, and 16 dead kids
  | [1].
  | 
  | A large part of the cause is how absurdly car-centric our
  | cities are - and yet, we're harmless compared to the US.
  | 
  | [1] https://www.dguv.de/de/zahlen-
  | fakten/schuelerunfallgeschehen...
 
    | nicbou wrote:
    | It's getting better, at least in Berlin.
    | 
    | Besides, the quality of the drivers in Germany is far better
    | than in the US in my experience.
 
    | lynx23 wrote:
    | "Absolutely necessary" is your personal opinion. I, for one,
    | disagree with that.
 
    | LeanderK wrote:
    | > 16 dead kids
    | 
    | of course every preventable death is too much and we should
    | be aiming at zero...but 16 doesn't seem that much? I would
    | have guessed more for sure.
 
      | burnished wrote:
      | It does seem a little hypocritical to follow up 'should aim
      | for zero children dead from being ran over by vehicles'
      | with 'but 16 is fine'
 
      | mschuster91 wrote:
      | In the last few years, the residential street where I live
      | had multiple accidents caused by inattentive or plain
      | racing drivers. One child ended up in hospital for weeks
      | after being run over by a speeding car, a woman ended up
      | dead after being run over by a lorry, and from my window I
      | can see dangerous behavior from motorists alllll the time.
      | Not good if you have three schools, (at least) two
      | kindergartens and a sports area used by all of them.
      | 
      | The problem is, the street is _fucking wide_ - it used to
      | be the supply road for a beer factory and only got
      | developed into pure residential and schools zoning two
      | decades ago, and that seems to invite people to not give a
      | fuck.
 
    | riffic wrote:
    | _accident_ is not the preferred term considering people
    | intentionally drive the way we do
    | 
    | https://laist.com/news/car-crash-accident-traffic-
    | violence-l...
 
  | matsemann wrote:
  | > _Children even started wearing yellow safety vests to school
  | all of a sudden_
  | 
  | Ban cars around schools. Ironically, the danger to kids walking
  | to school is other parents driving their kid to school (a bit
  | stressed, over the limit and probably on their phone).
 
    | screwturner68 wrote:
    | Things only gotten safer over the last 50 years and every kid
    | walked to school in the 60's,70's & 80's but now the majority
    | are carted in very large SUVs. Something changed and it's not
    | safety. I'd also add that they walked to school without
    | parental supervision pretty much from kindergarten forward. I
    | think most parents today would have a heart attack if their
    | 2nd grader walked to school alone (even though they likely
    | did)
 
  | themitigating wrote:
  | What state manages playground equipment?
 
    | leipert wrote:
    | Many, if not most, public playgrounds are maintained by the
    | city or municipality in Germany. Here in a larger city they
    | are checked and cleaned weekly.
 
      | themitigating wrote:
      | So not the state?
 
        | sircastor wrote:
        | "The state" is a generic term that refers to the
        | government, local, provincial, or larger.
 
        | wizofaus wrote:
        | I'd suggest it's not typically thought of as including
        | local government. It is a peculiarly overloaded term
        | though, particularly if you live in a country where
        | "state" is a key governmental/administrative division! In
        | the usage here - "nanny state" - I'd agree it can include
        | local government and indeed even organisations operating
        | below that level (it might just be a single school board
        | making "nanny state" decisions).
 
        | leipert wrote:
        | Depends on your definition of state. If you really want
        | to dig into it:
        | 
        | The country, Germany, or a federal state like Bavaria,
        | likely not directly but indirectly, due to how our tax
        | system works. Different entities collect different taxes,
        | but the cities and municipalities get a certain
        | percentage of wage and sales tax for example. Often those
        | taxes are not bound to be used for a certain purpose.
        | 
        | But also we have city-states liked Berlin or Hamburg, and
        | those directly fund and maintain their playgrounds.
 
| tanekloc wrote:
| Building risk into playgrounds so that no adult German ever takes
| risks and has insurance for every case :)
 
  | fs111 wrote:
  | how do you think Allianz got so big? ;)
 
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| >A sign urges parents to take off their children's cycle helmets
| in order to eliminate a strangulation risk.
| 
| That's ironic - PPE that becomes dangerous in a different
| environment.
 
  | TeMPOraL wrote:
  | Another example: there's a reason the security briefing on
  | airplanes tells you to not inflate the vest while still inside
  | the cabin.
 
    | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
    | Also helicopters.
    | 
    | There used to be a gentleman who gave the mandatory safety
    | briefing before taking guests from Lundy Island by helicopter
    | (the only travel option in winter months) who would make the
    | point that if one person inflates their vest, the other
    | passengers would lemming-like inflate their vests and then
    | you suddenly find the cabin is filled with 5 or 6 inflated
    | people that have no chance of getting out of the door. He
    | always used to joke that the whistle was to amuse yourself
    | until the coastguard arrived.
 
  | paleogizmo wrote:
  | Another common example: don't wear safety gloves when working
  | with rotating equipment, as they can catch and drag one's hand
  | in
 
  | ip26 wrote:
  | Helmets in particular have tremendous specificity, which is
  | fascinating. Bicycle, ski, and motorcycle helmets have MIPS.
  | Motorcycle helmets have chin guards. Bicycle helmets have side
  | impact protection. Climbing helmets have puncture resistance
  | and top impact protection. Ski helmets have puncture resistance
  | and coverage close to a motorcycle helmet, but less cushion.
  | I'm sure the list is long for hard hats as well.
  | 
  | Kids helmets have started to show up with breakaway neck
  | straps- the strap only need be so strong to prevent the helmet
  | from slipping off in a crash.
 
| magicalhippo wrote:
| Someone I know designed playgrounds. One of his core concepts was
| that there's two aspects to safety.
| 
| One is subjective. Like when you're high up and you see the
| ground beneath you, you know it'll hurt if you fall down, so
| you're more careful moving around.
| 
| Then there's all the hidden dangers that kids don't think about
| or see[1], like a small gap where a cord from the clothing can
| get attached potentially leading to suffocation.
| 
| The point being, the first aspect is something the kids should be
| able to expose themselves to. It teaches them about risk, but
| also can give them a goal and a sense of achievement when they
| finally dare to do something and succeed. His point was that this
| is an important part of their development, which could have
| knock-on effects later.
| 
| However the playground should be designed such that any accident
| should not lead to permanent injury or death. Sure they might get
| a bit banged up if they misjudge, lesson hopefully learned, but
| nothing permanent.
| 
| He was often in Germany to study their playgrounds for
| inspiration, and this article illustrates nicely why.
| 
| [1]: https://www.utdanningsnytt.no/barnehage-grunnskole-
| leker/her...
 
  | tunnuz wrote:
  | Very interesting, I never thought of safety that way. Thanks
  | for sharing this.
 
  | jl6 wrote:
  | There's a broader lesson here about finding ways to teach kids
  | to handle minor failures in a consequence-capped environment.
 
| tda wrote:
| I remember when my kids were younger they always had difficulty
| climbing onto the cooler play structures. Somehow the first few
| steps of the entrance are the most difficult. So I just had to
| help them get on and they would be fine. At first this annoyed me
| a bit, but later I realized that this must be intentional; if the
| kid manages to get in/on the play structure in the first place,
| they'll probably be fine. If they fall when trying to get on it,
| they fall in the sand so also no problem. Only the kids with some
| physical ability are able to reach some height, the smallest have
| to stay on the ground
 
  | groestl wrote:
  | Came here to post this. I noticed as well, the first step is
  | always adjusted to the target age group. So when he was
  | smaller, my kid couldn't get into the structures that were not
  | meant for him, but year after year more stuff became
  | accessible. There were also structures with multiple difficulty
  | levels at once, and different entrance obstacles tuned to them.
  | Pretty neat I must say.
 
    | Moru wrote:
    | I always expected this to be the case, everything designed
    | with some sort of safety aspect for kid playgrounds. Until I
    | was in one of those indoor playground companies where you pay
    | an entrance fee. I was climbing around with my three year old
    | daughter when we ended up at the top of the structure. There
    | was a big sign with lots of text that a three year old can't
    | read. It said something about four meter vertical drop slide.
    | There were no hard places where I had to help her up to get
    | up to this point. Luckily I'm not a very trusting parent.
    | This place was later shut down because of lots of safety
    | issues. Their defence was that they are a Cafe, not a kids
    | playground. Weird even for swedish standards.
 
| paganel wrote:
| Until recently we still had a concrete-made children slide [1]
| here in Romania, built in pure brutalist style back in the '60s.
| There was also one built in my home-town, and I guess in other
| towns throughout Eastern Europe.
| 
| There's no way anything like that could ever get built again, and
| yet, we managed to don't kill ourselves as kids when we were
| sliding on them.
| 
| [1] https://www.cotidianul.ro/wp-
| content/uploads/2017/10/19/tobo...
 
| wnevets wrote:
| Is anyone else like me and just sick & tired of the
| boomerification of the public discourse? There isn't anything
| _more wrong_ with kids these days compared to previous
| generations. Participation trophies didn 't matter, foam
| playgrounds didn't create "soft" kids. Its all non-sense.
| 
| "What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their
| elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They
| riot in the streets, inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are
| decaying. What is to become of them?" - Plato
 
  | DiggyJohnson wrote:
  | Would you dismiss any evidence of generational changes in the
  | way children are raised, in the aggregate?
  | 
  | Or that changes in the way children are raised don't affect the
  | child?
 
    | wnevets wrote:
    | I would love to see evidence that showed a measurable
    | difference of an adult's behavior or personality based on the
    | playground (or trophy policy) they grew up with.
 
      | magicalhippo wrote:
      | From what I know there's a fair bit of research linking
      | improved motor skills and social skills with later academic
      | performance. Here are some quotes from a review article[1]:
      | 
      |  _Research presented in this section indicates that
      | removing play from early childhood classrooms may actually
      | undermine intended achievement-oriented outcomes._
      | 
      |  _Play enhances attention, memory, self-regulation, and
      | overall academic achievement throughout childhood. In
      | short, physical play is necessary for learning._
      | 
      |  _Young children's motor development has been found to be a
      | powerful predictor of cognitive abilities in the elementary
      | years._
      | 
      | A good playground will be exciting and thus promote
      | spontaneous play, a creative process, and it will be
      | challenging which help kids develop their motor skills.
      | 
      | A bad playground will be dull and lack challenges, thus not
      | making kids develop those skills in the same way.
      | 
      | Thus it seems quite likely that the quality of the
      | playgrounds available at their kindergarten, school and
      | local area can have an effect into adulthood.
      | 
      | [1]: https://www.easternct.edu/center-for-early-childhood-
      | educati...
 
        | wnevets wrote:
        | > Research presented in this section indicates that
        | removing play from early childhood classrooms may
        | actually undermine intended achievement-oriented
        | outcomes.
        | 
        | That is absolutely not the same as having an overly safe
        | or "soft" playgrounds.
 
  | Fricken wrote:
  | It's not a "kids these days" thing. It's a modernity thing. The
  | first person to make a lot of noise about this was Georges
  | Herbert, a French physical educator who is regarded as the
  | inventor of the military obstacle course, and who was broadly
  | influential in shaping physical education programs, largely
  | throughout Europe and the eastern block in the 20th century.
  | 
  | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_H%C3%A9bert
 
| themitigating wrote:
| Children don't know better and getting hurt isn't always the best
| way to learn because their could be permanent consequences
 
  | leipert wrote:
  | I don't know. Our kid frequents these playgrounds and it's
  | interesting to see how the usage changes over time. The kid
  | quite frequently signals when it thinks something is too high
  | or a slide to steep or whatever. And most kids seem to be
  | rather cautious.
 
  | mpsprd wrote:
  | A friend of mine, PhD in early childhood education, told me the
  | contrary: Toddlers instinctively know their limits and will not
  | "bite more than they can chew", at least with gross motor
  | skills.
  | 
  | My personal experience confirms this: for example, when
  | teaching my young kid of 18mo to climb down stairs standing, I
  | would stop holding his hands and observe his behavior. He would
  | initially try to go down a step on his feet while holding the
  | side rail, then hesitate and ask for my hand. If I told him to
  | do it himself, he would instead sit down and slide down gently.
 
  | Fricken wrote:
  | There could be permanent consequences either way. Children of
  | overprotective parents tend to live less:
  | 
  | https://neurosciencenews.com/overprotective-parents-child-lo...
 
  | realworldperson wrote:
  | [dead]
 
| moron4hire wrote:
| We've had a couple of playgrounds like this near where I live
| here in Virginia for a number of years. They're not very old, but
| certainly older than 2021.
 
| dang wrote:
| Related:
| 
|  _Germany is building risk into its playgrounds_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28978056 - Oct 2021 (6
| comments)
 
| swimfar wrote:
| It doesn't look like they are building risk into the playgrounds,
| as much as they are building the feeling of risk. which isn't
| necessarily a bad thing. This seems like a compromise that should
| be seen as better, or at least acceptable to both extremes of
| parents.
| 
| "The maximum fall height in the Triitopia structure's spiderweb
| is 1.8 metres." That's not a risky fall, if you're falling onto a
| rope net.
| 
| Also, "The Triitopia tower is encased with boards and netting to
| ensure no child can take a tumble from a height above three
| metres." Kids used to climb on the outside and on top of tall
| playground structures like that. But they're making sure this
| much more difficult to attempt. This is not a criticism, just my
| observations.
 
  | ip26 wrote:
  | Risk is likelihood X consequence, and there is also the
  | distinction of actual risk vs perceived risk. They are
  | manipulating the four variables; control actual consequence,
  | maximize perceived consequence, maximize perceived likelihood,
  | and moderate actual likelihood.
  | 
  | Both are types of risk IMO, and as children come to recognize
  | the actual risk through experience they will come to
  | recalibrate their perceived risk. Ideally this makes them
  | better at perceiving risk in the future.
 
  | fsckboy wrote:
  | i wonder if it will be discovered as fun to "base-jump" into
  | the net
 
    | mschuster91 wrote:
    | Not really, as you will notice and learn that the ropes are
    | damn stiff and have metal ties to form the grid.
 
      | germinalphrase wrote:
      | In the US, my experience with this style of rope structure
      | is that the ropes are actually steep cables encases in
      | fiber or nylon rope sheathing. There is no stretch, so
      | landings are immediate (unlike falling onto an actual rope
      | net).
 
        | schoen wrote:
        | I think I've seen that too; why are they made this way?
        | Durability? Supporting more people's weight at once?
 
        | mschuster91 wrote:
        | Same shit as some commercial residential developments
        | here in Germany have: wrong metrics.
        | 
        | Like, when the builders' metric is "must last for 20
        | years at minimal maintenance effort and legal risk", you
        | get radically different results (barely fulfilling the
        | legal definition of playground, no one uses it) than if
        | the metric is "out of the X potential users in the 200m
        | surrounding the playground, Y% use it frequently". The
        | latter costs more money in construction and upkeep.
 
        | germinalphrase wrote:
        | I was told that the cables reduce the potential for
        | stretch over time, and this is important to maintain
        | safety tolerances ("space x cannot exceed size y because
        | otherwise a child can...")
 
  | wanderingstan wrote:
  | However they say that some broken bones are acceptable, which
  | are more than just a "feeling of risk".
 
  | dan-robertson wrote:
  | I wouldn't want to fall 1.8m and land awkwardly, even if it
  | might not permanently injure me.
 
| tomaskafka wrote:
| Prague here, happy to have this:
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/eEcKTe5rfNxr7he77
| 
| Was I scared a bit climbing this with my kids? Yes. Was it an
| awesome day? Hell, yeah, and returning there soon!
 
| yazzku wrote:
| Considering our species used to send children into dark caves as
| a rite of passage and the way things are now, this is probably
| for the best.
| 
| "Parents can try to keep up with their young mountaineers as they
| ascend through the rope spiderweb, but they might get left behind
| in the tightly woven mesh."
| 
| Like Instagram and TikTok, but with real safety guarantees.
 
  | ClumsyPilot wrote:
  | > Considering our species used to send children into dark caves
  | as a rite of passage
  | 
  | Is this a reference to Victorians sending kids into coal mines
  | to die of back lung, or something else? As a bonus, the tunnels
  | didn't need to be so large.
 
| globalise83 wrote:
| All well and good, but the children in our local playground in
| Germany climb the nearby trees overlooking the risk-engineered
| playground, reaching heights of around 5 metres while standing on
| branches less than 1cm thick!
 
| gammarator wrote:
| I saw some of this German company's equipment in Memphis,
| Tennessee--very cool, and quite different from most U.S.
| playgrounds: https://www.richter-spielgeraete.de/en/playground-
| equipment/...
 
  | qwertox wrote:
  | Crazy, this is one of their main playgrounds they are
  | responsible for:
  | 
  | https://www.garten-landschaft.de/guenter-beltzig-nachruf/
  | 
  | The page is an obituary because the designer died in December.
  | 
  | The video is in English.
 
| lynx23 wrote:
| It is hard to explain, but this headline makes me sad, very sad.
| 
| Not because german children are supposedly put at risk, not at
| all...
| 
| It is the tone of finger pointing. Risk is what eventually makes
| us grow.
| 
| A totally risk free world/life would be utterly worthless living,
| and perhaps a reason to attempt suicide.
 
  | nonethewiser wrote:
  | Good point. Makes me think of the complete lack of suicide in
  | more primitive cultures.
 
    | WJW wrote:
    | That's simply untrue. Suicide among the Greeks and Romans was
    | at least prevalent enough to have laws written about it (see
    | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_suicide) and suicide
    | among samurai was also certainly non-zero.
    | 
    | If those examples are not "primitive" enough, already in 1894
    | Steinmetz collated an extensive list of at least forty-two
    | documented cases of suicide amongst what he terms "savage
    | peoples" like the "Polar peoples, North American Indians,
    | Bedouins, Polynesians and native races of British India".
    | Many of the terms he uses would be frowned upon today, but
    | the article is available for free at
    | https://www.jstor.org/stable/658295 and clearly documents
    | many cases of suicide even in societies untouched by Western
    | ideas. It's quite the list, from women killing themselves for
    | "unrequited love" to adulterers committing suicide out of
    | fear of repercussions. In fact he concludes that suicide may
    | even be _more_ prevalent in primitive cultures, relative to
    | the size of the population, because some of those societies
    | did not seem to have a stigma or taboo against suicide
    | (unlike western civilizations where it is /was a sin).
 
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-03-19 23:00 UTC)