[HN Gopher] Flux Keyboard
___________________________________________________________________
 
Flux Keyboard
 
Author : 1900-01-01
Score  : 463 points
Date   : 2023-03-09 17:15 UTC (5 hours ago)
 
web link (fluxkeyboard.com)
w3m dump (fluxkeyboard.com)
 
| spankalee wrote:
| If they could get the knobs to attach to the screen without metal
| contacts (maybe inductive power and alignment magnets?) and have
| a touch screen, this would make an incredible customizable music
| / midi controller. It would be a joy to make hybrid HW/SW
| interfaces for soft synths with that.
 
| roflyear wrote:
| looks awful for ergonomics :/
 
  | inerte wrote:
  | yeah, came here to say something similar. It looks super cool
  | and the features, wow... but unfortunately when I don't use an
  | ergonomic keyboard (my Microsoft Sculpt has been with me for 10
  | years), pain starts pretty much instantly. If they ever release
  | a more ergonomic version that would be interesting!
 
  | tomtheelder wrote:
  | No worse than any other standard keyboard that the overwhelming
  | majority of people use.
 
    | ahelwer wrote:
    | Well, the bar is in hell. Nobody should be using flat slab
    | keyboards. They are objectively terrible for your wrists.
    | Absent space constraints like inclusion in a laptop this flat
    | design is a nonstarter.
 
  | mthomasmw wrote:
  | Agree. Would be interested if horizontal rows. Still happy with
  | my kinesis which I never look at.
 
| unxdfa wrote:
| Not a fan of the idea:
| 
| 1. I don't look at a keyboard so there's not much point in making
| it look fancy.
| 
| 2. I destroy keyboards in 12 months. Even good quality mechanical
| ones. I probably can't afford to own this.
| 
| 3. It looks like bits are going to fall off it when I inevitably
| catch the edge of it moving from my mouse to my keyboard.
| 
| 4. It doesn't have enough keys on it and the default positioned
| layout sucks.
| 
| 5. It's got transparent bits. My backlit laptop keyboard already
| looks like a cat litter tray after a couple of weeks. This is
| going to require a lot of upkeep.
| 
| I think the only keyboard I actually like at the moment is the
| Cherry Stream SX TKL. Costs $26, feels like an old ThinkPad, has
| all the right keys in the right place, if you break you won't
| cry, no bits fall off it when you shake the crap out, it doesn't
| look like a Christmas tree on acid or ever like a cat litter
| tray. I had 11 keyboards to get to that and it was the cheapest
| one. Ugh.
 
  | 1-more wrote:
  | > I destroy keyboards in 12 months. Even good quality
  | mechanical ones.
  | 
  | Wait how? How do they fail? This is interesting to me.
 
    | bityard wrote:
    | Same here, I don't think I've _ever_ destroyed a keyboard in
    | my life. After about a decade on one, I just get tired of it
    | and want to try something new.
    | 
    | Right now my favorite is the wired Apple Magic keyboard with
    | numpad. I bought my current one new on ebay during covid at a
    | big of a premium because they stopped making them years ago
    | and are NLA. I don't use a Mac so the layout is funky, but
    | all of the standard-layout knock-offs are bluetooth-only,
    | have poor reviews, or are staggeringly expensive.
 
| fire wrote:
| replaceable key "frame" had me hopeful, but no, there is no
| ortholinear support - only staggered layouts. Lame.
| 
| this just seems to be a new attempt at the ol' Optimus Maximus
 
  | jhanschoo wrote:
  | Maybe maybe eventually? And perhaps it can be marketed as
  | macropad-like? I'm hopeful but realistically there isn't much
  | of a market for us folk.
 
| mhitza wrote:
| I like the swappable modules idea. If it would support Linux, and
| was hackable I miight consider it (no mention of open source).
 
  | junon wrote:
  | If this didn't support something like QMK I'd be shocked. They
  | seem to know what will drive sales and the keyboard community
  | will be huge on hacking. If they're tone deaf enough not to
  | have that ability then.. well, we'll see.
 
| kensai wrote:
| Why should one get this and not Nemeio?
| 
| https://www.nemeio.com/
 
| Terretta wrote:
| Always missing from keyboard-craft FAQs:
| 
| - What are your plans for TouchID?
| 
| I would spend the price of the custom keyboard _plus_ the price
| of an Apple keyboard to tear down, just to have that feature
| included. Offer a primary price point without it, add $149 for a
| TouchID  "module", see what happens.
 
| shanebellone wrote:
| I'll definitely buy one. Very cool form factor.
 
| amelius wrote:
| Cool idea, but I try to not look at my keyboard ...
 
| nayuki wrote:
| Some other times this was tried:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard ,
| https://liliputing.com/the-poly-keyboard-uses-tiny-oled-disp... ,
| https://www.alphr.com/united-keys/united-keys-oled-display-k...
 
  | [deleted]
 
  | skyyler wrote:
  | This looks like one big screen with transparent keys instead of
  | a single small screen for each key like all the examples you
  | linked.
  | 
  | Should be much cheaper to produce, and cost is always the
  | problem with projects like this.
 
    | ahofmann wrote:
    | Well, this keyboard will cost $300 to $450 :-(
 
      | tremon wrote:
      | That's still only 20-30% of the quoted price for the
      | Optimus Maximus ($1500, IIRC).
 
| pdntspa wrote:
| I would really like it if these fancypants keyboards came in a
| layout other than the crunch-all-your-fingers-together-in-the-
| middle-for-extra-RSI design that the keyboard nerds seem to adore
 
  | pnathan wrote:
  | the 3 modern higher end keyboard companies that attend to
  | ergonomic concerns are, afaik, - keyboard.io - kinesis -
  | ergodox
  | 
  | and then there's maltron keyboards, a bit older-school.
  | 
  | I have a kinesis edge and a keyboard.io, I like the kinesis
  | edge rgb variant. the keyboard.io is very hard for me.
 
    | pdntspa wrote:
    | keyboard.io keyboards look really uncomfortable for long-term
    | use, what with that hard wood looking enclosure. Ergodox and
    | kinesis both do that weird split keyboard thing. All put
    | other buttons below the thumb which I am not sure about.
    | 
    | Can someone just please make a high-quality MS Natural
    | Ergonomic 4000? Mine is getting worn out.
    | 
    | edit- holy shit it looks like MS reintroduced it!
    | https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/microsoft-ergonomic-
    | keyboa...
 
      | pnathan wrote:
      | The hardwood enclosure hasn't bothered me too much. The
      | thumb cluster and layers bother me more.
      | 
      | I also miss the MS Natural 4K. There's a cheap knockoff on
      | Amazon, but I didn't bother with it.
 
      | pnathan wrote:
      | re the edit:
      | 
      | > Nevertheless, if there were a world where amazing
      | products suddenly snapped out of existence and were
      | replaced with husks of their former selves, it would be
      | this keyboard. Oh, right. That is this world.
      | 
      | Amazon review of the latest gen ergo keyboard.
      | 
      | If ms does a MS Natural 4001 or whatever, a genuine
      | successor, I'll probably buy 3. It was _really_ nice.
 
        | pdntspa wrote:
        | It's cheap enough that I'm willing to give it a shot. The
        | MS Sculpt wireless keyboard was pretty and unexpectedly
        | comfortable for me once I got used to the chiclet keys
 
  | robinsonb5 wrote:
  | To be honest I'd settle for an ISO option!
 
  | doix wrote:
  | I feel like you're out of the loop when it comes to keyboard
  | nerds. Check out the dactyl-manuform [0]. The days of tiny
  | 40/60 keyboards are gone, they aren't cool anymore (joking of
  | course, use what you want).
  | 
  | [0] https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform
 
  | tomtheelder wrote:
  | I mean the layout is more or less a standard qwerty one. It's
  | not any more condensed than any other keyboard, as far as I can
  | tell. You can imagine why an ergonomic layout would make this
  | particular product more difficult, as you'd either need
  | multiple displays for a split board, or a much larger display
  | to accommodate the larger keyboard surface of a more
  | traditional ergonomic layout.
  | 
  | Also fwiw I don't think there's any real evidence to suggest
  | that ergonomic keyboard layouts help with RSIs.
 
    | pdntspa wrote:
    | It puts less tension on my hands, I can feel that. 12+ hours
    | a day in front of a keyboard, for weeks at a time sometimes
    | for me. I don't have to bunch my elbows into my stomach to
    | use the standard home row posture. I think those are all
    | ergonomic wins.
 
    | johncalvinyoung wrote:
    | Switching to a tented split keyboard (UHK v1) effectively
    | saved my productivity from a really bad case of forearm
    | tendonitis a couple of years ago. Was still typing with
    | coldpacks on my wrists, but it was doable in a way continuing
    | on the laptop keyboard every day all day was not.
 
| balaji1 wrote:
| Surprising this toy doesn't exist yet. People will use(buy) it.
| 450$... fine, it is an expensive toy after all.
 
| alecfreudenberg wrote:
| I love the pitstop video for the keyframe swap.
 
| ics wrote:
| Giving me major nostalgia for the Optimus Maximus
| (https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/maximus/) keyboard and its
| successors. This one looks like an interesting take now that
| displays are even higher resolution, have haptic feedback, etc.
 
  | qubex wrote:
  | Also came here to say this -- I wanted to love the Optimus
  | Maximus (perhaps because of a bad case of buyer's regret
  | generating a counter-force to maximise cognitive dissonance)
  | but as a keyboard it was awful.
  | 
  | (Combined it with a BMW-designed Level 10 case; quite the
  | looker but monumental and monumentally oversized.)
 
  | agentwiggles wrote:
  | I remember thinking the Optimus was _so fucking cool_. I think
  | when it was first announced I was still in high school, and I
  | wasn't even a programmer yet, so the utility of it would have
  | mostly been lost on me, and the price tag was laughable. But I
  | just thought the idea was so cool.
  | 
  | Definitely my first thought when I saw this too. That brings me
  | back to the good ol' days.
 
  | anoonmoose wrote:
  | I was coming here to say this- one of those, "everything old is
  | new again" moments.
 
  | insonifi wrote:
  | Same here :). But original Optimus has a screen in each key.
  | This technically similar to a later design
  | https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/popularis/. Which also had a
  | single big LCD and transparent keys on top of it.
 
    | JonathonW wrote:
    | Elgato's Stream Deck is a more mainstream application of the
    | same approach, with a single LCD under all of the keys.
    | 
    | The Stream Deck isn't doing anything particularly exotic with
    | its key mechanism, though (from what I can tell, there's a
    | frame between the LCD and buttons with the actual contacts on
    | it; no Hall-effect sensors or anything like that).
 
      | fmajid wrote:
      | I have the midsized Stream Deck. The mushy feel of the keys
      | is awful.
 
| LordDragonfang wrote:
| >How much will it cost?
| 
| >The keyboard will cost between US$299 - $350 after discounts for
| pre-orders with a retail price of US$450.
| 
| That's... not as high as I thought it might be, considering how
| expensive mechanical keyboards can get and how esoteric of a
| product this is.
 
  | nomel wrote:
  | > considering how expensive mechanical keyboards can get
  | 
  | I would claim that there's nothing expensive about mechanical
  | keyboards, there's healthy profit margins, and passionate
  | people.
 
| moremetadata wrote:
| [dead]
 
| wodenokoto wrote:
| The "hot swap" video is really cute with the team switching from
| green to red, as the keyboard switches to red type linear
| switches.
 
| drcode wrote:
| This looks fun, but I worked a long time to get to the point
| where I never have to look at my keyboard
 
| donutdan4114 wrote:
| This looks awesome. I'm curious to see what additional modules
| they make for it.
 
| nixpulvis wrote:
| Why hasn't this caught on yet? Tiny little OLED displays have
| been around for a while, and we could standardize a layout that
| is independent of the glyphs on each key just as ISO/ANSI/etc
| have...
| 
| What's the hold up?
 
| RajT88 wrote:
| They should have sent a poet
 
| generalizations wrote:
| That's going to be hard to keep clean.
 
| von_lohengramm wrote:
| This is exactly what I've been dreaming of ever since Hall effect
| switches came back. It's very reminiscent of the old school
| Zboard keyboard that had physical overlays tailored towards
| specific games. This digital approach seems a touch more
| scalable.
 
  | baybal2 wrote:
  | [dead]
 
  | adolph wrote:
  | Also that the keys are "maglev"
  | 
  |  _Each key is magnetically suspended with rare earth magnets
  | allowing them to be 97% transparent and ultra low friction.
  | Each switch has 4mm of travel and will be available in linear
  | and tactile variants. They also feature a software adjustable
  | actuation point in 0.1mm increments and rapid trigger
  | functionality through analog hall effect sensing._
  | 
  |  _The keys contain magnets along their perimeter which are
  | attracted by magnets in the frame which surrounds them. This
  | magnetic attraction suspends them in place and provides the
  | return force which makes the key bounce back after depressing -
  | similar to a spring._
 
    | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
    | I have a magnet in the pad of my left ring finger. This
    | keyboard would likely be uncomfortable for me
 
      | adolph wrote:
      | Life is truely composed of tradeoffs, no?
      | 
      | My guess is that if this keyboard is released and if you
      | use your fingertips rather than fingerpads to type, you
      | might not have a problem unless you are ticklish.
 
      | jaywalk wrote:
      | Why do you have a magnet in your finger?
 
        | timdiggerm wrote:
        | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_hacking probably
 
        | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
        | Yep. From that link "Rich Lee is known for implanting
        | headphones in his tragi in 2013, as well as for his work
        | on a vibrating pelvic implant called the Lovetron9000.
        | His biohacking activities were used as a justification to
        | remove his parental custody rights in 2016."
        | 
        | I got the same implants after talking to him about it on
        | IG. It barely worked. An array of magnets on the skull
        | would probably work. I had to get the magnets in my ears
        | removed when the casings failed.
 
        | Raicuparta wrote:
        | One reason some people do this is so they can feel
        | currents, and it's a cool party trick. But the real
        | effect is spending the rest of your life explaining to
        | people that you can't do something because you have
        | magnets in your fingers.
 
        | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
        | I read this blog in 2009??? Found a guy to implant a
        | magnet in 2013
        | 
        | https://feelingwaves.blogspot.com
 
      | JasonFruit wrote:
      | Is "I have a magnet in my finger!" the new "I'm vegan!"?
 
        | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
        | No, but I am vegan. Vegan since 2002. Magnet in my finger
        | since 2013. It's fun to feel my laptop charging. But also
        | it's kind of inconvenient in ways I never expected.
 
      | evan_ wrote:
      | uncomfortable or not I would expect the keyboard might type
      | a lot of extra "S"s when you use it.
 
    | atomicUpdate wrote:
    | Their description feels wrong to me. How does an attractive
    | force repel the key and keep it suspended?
 
      | adolph wrote:
      | I like magnetic force too. My guess is that they use two
      | magnets of different polar orientation on the key and below
      | the key, like -+ to +- or +- to -+. This keeps the key
      | floating above the base.
      | 
      | If they are really with the times, then they will use
      | printed polymagnets:
      | 
      |  _Programmed magnets, or polymagnets are magnetic
      | structures that incorporate correlated patterns of magnets
      | with alternating polarity, designed to achieve a desired
      | behavior and deliver stronger local force. By varying the
      | magnetic fields and strengths, different mechanical
      | behaviors can be controlled._
      | 
      | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_magnet
 
| hendersoon wrote:
| I don't find the displays particularly interesting or useful on
| an entire keyboard.
| 
| What _is_ interesting is they 're using hall effect (magnetic)
| sensors, which have a vastly longer life than normal mechanical
| switches. That isn't new either, the Dreamcast had them way back
| in the day, and today Wooting sells keyboard with the same tech.
| This enables some very useful gaming features.
| 
| First, you can adjust the initial actuation point, so the
| keyboard registers a much lighter press, resulting in faster
| effective response times. Like Wooting, it goes all the way down
| to 0.1mm.
| 
| Second and probably more importantly, it supports rapid trigger,
| meaning the key instantly releases the instant you start to lift
| up your finger, and then it doesn't have a _set_ actuation point
| so the key doesn 't need to lift up most of the way before you
| can press it down again. This allows for much, MUCH more
| responsive controls which is a noticeable advantage in eSports
| games and some rapid-clicker games like Osu.
| 
| Thirdly and not very important at all, Wooting supports analog
| controls, so you can play driving games with your keyboard, or
| adjust your movement speed in a shooter. There are all kinds of
| issues with support in games, though, and it's unclear if the
| Flux supports it at all.
| 
| The problem with Wooting is it's expensive; the keyboard costs
| $175. These magnetic switches need to get down to a more
| reasonable pricepoint.
| 
| And the problem with the Flux keyboard is, well, it's even more
| expensive. Starts at $299 in the kickstarter phase, and will
| retail at $450.
| 
| I do find it encouraging to see more manufacturers using magnetic
| switches, and hope prices come down at the low end quickly.
| They're just plain _better_.
 
  | Majromax wrote:
  | > These magnetic switches need to get down to a more reasonable
  | pricepoint.
  | 
  | I think that's close to an inherent problem with the bill of
  | materials. Taking a look at DigiKey, the cheapest in-stock
  | linear hall effect sensor that I see still runs about $0.40
  | apiece in large quantity. Turning that into a usable keyswitch
  | requires at least two more magnets, and I'm sure the assembly
  | isn't particularly easy.
  | 
  | Without some great cost reduction in hall effect sensors, I
  | think a magnetic-switch keyboard will always be more expensive
  | than a mechanical-switch keyboard, which will be more expensive
  | than a rubber dome keyboard.
 
    | hendersoon wrote:
    | That assumes there are no discounts to be had by partnering
    | with large companies making switches, doesn't it? Wooting
    | partnered with Gateron to build their Lekker hall-effect
    | switches. I would be very surprised if their BOM for switches
    | alone on the 104-key model was $125 given it retails for
    | $195-- and that includes 104 keycaps, the case, cable,
    | packaging, controller board, etc.
    | 
    | No doubt they're _considerably_ more expensive than regular
    | mechanical switches, but it 's unclear how much of that
    | expense comes from their being pretty rare right now and not
    | benefiting from economies of scale. That's my hope, at any
    | rate, because again-- they're just plain _better_.
 
| tiledjinn wrote:
| looks like the key feel will be very bad
 
| muyuu wrote:
| > The keyboard will cost between US$299 - $350 after discounts
| for pre-orders with a retail price of US$450.
 
| [deleted]
 
| sj4nz wrote:
| This is interesting... but I can't help but think how much better
| it might be if instead of a video background just had a simpler
| e-ink display for indicating what the transparent key caps were
| for. The animation/videos are very distracting.
| 
| I never liked the Apple TouchBar or anything that required
| "active" attention away from the main screen.
 
  | [deleted]
 
  | ar9av wrote:
  | I think it'd be much better if they just had a simple e-ink
  | display for showing what the transparent key caps are for. That
  | way, you don't have to deal with any distracting animations or
  | videos, and you can just focus on getting your work done.
  | 
  | And yeah, I totally get what you mean about the Apple TouchBar
  | and stuff like that. It might look cool, but it's just another
  | thing that takes your attention away from the main screen. We
  | need interfaces that are designed to help us be more
  | productive, not ones that are just flashy and distracting.
 
  | dheera wrote:
  | I was thinking e-Ink too, it would allow the keyboard to be
  | made wireless and have a respectable battery life of at least a
  | week or two if not much longer.
 
  | jonnycomputer wrote:
  | E-ink was the very first thing I thought of. Less power use,
  | less glare, less distraction. Heck, I have the Logitech K800
  | Wireless Illuminated Keyboard and it hurts my eyes when the
  | room is not brightly lit (unlike my Mac Book Pro's backlit
  | keyboard which does it right).
 
  | layer8 wrote:
  | I wonder about the parallax effect, since the display is a
  | significant distance from the key tops. You can kinda see it in
  | the short typing demonstration a third down the page. Though I
  | never liked self-illuminating keyboards anyway.
 
  | shaunsingh0207 wrote:
  | E-ink is extremely expensive, especially at the size of a
  | keyboard like that. Memory LCD would be more practical, but at
  | that point the lcd costs the same and offers more power for
  | those who want it.
  | 
  | There isn't anything stopping you from making the entire screen
  | black except for the legends, probably
 
    | sho_hn wrote:
    | True dat. I recently made this for my home, as a once-a-day
    | automatic newspaper deco thingie (ticking all the latest hype
    | boxes: wrote a custom Rust driver for the EPD controller, and
    | it's now also using the ChatGPT API to trim and style-
    | transfer articles and headlines -- this and also various
    | layout/typography improvements not yet in that album):
    | https://imgur.com/a/PqkhdGd
    | 
    | $400+shipping for the display panel (a competitive price from
    | the shop). Even at volume (which an enthusiast keyboard won't
    | be) it's still very expensive.
 
      | throwwwaway69 wrote:
      | Very cool - I've been researching something nearly
      | identical and it's nice to see your implementation of it.
      | Unfortunately I'm not sure I want this bad enough for the
      | $500 in hardware costs.
 
      | edu115 wrote:
      | Can you let me know where you sourced the screen?
 
        | sho_hn wrote:
        | See my reply to your sibling :-)
 
      | shaunsingh0207 wrote:
      | Saw your project a few days back, absolutely loved it!
      | Same-ish setup here, a massive e-ink screen hooked up to a
      | controller and pine64 board. I hung it up next to my bed,
      | displays my most important emails/weather/health-notifs
      | etc., everything I need in the morning to get up and
      | running
      | 
      | The cost of the panel makes me cry but there's nothing like
      | e-ink :)
 
      | vopi wrote:
      | I was recently messing around with a very small eink
      | display (and used it to display HN posts somewhat similar
      | in concept to you). Out of curiosity, what display is
      | that/where did you source it from?
 
        | sho_hn wrote:
        | It's a 13.3" 1600x1200 panel made by E Ink, from the
        | Carta product line also used in Kindles et all, the
        | ED133UT2. I bought it via Waveshare together with a
        | little driver board featuring the ITE IT8951 controller: 
        | https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/epaper
        | -1/...
        | 
        | The ED133UT2 is also available from E Ink directly and
        | from other shops, but I haven't seen a significantly
        | better price. There are also some other boards with the
        | same controller around. An alternative to using the
        | IT8951 is to hook the display up to an MCU with an
        | adapter board for the flex cable directly and then drive
        | the waveforms from the MCU, this is more complicated
        | however and a little controller talking SPI is quite nice
        | to have.
        | 
        | There's also a 10.3" with an even higher resolution that
        | is very nice for various applications.
 
    | jrockway wrote:
    | Yup. TFT LCDs are in everything because they are so cheap,
    | and they make designers who are used to designing for
    | computers feel less constrained.
    | 
    | I have indoor and outdoor air quality sensors in my
    | apartment; the outdoor air quality monitor is an LCD and the
    | indoor one is e-ink. I kind of like the LCD better, but have
    | to use a feature to turn off the screen at night so it's not
    | illuminating the entire room with its backlight. The e-ink
    | doesn't emit light, but it also doesn't update as frequently,
    | so it's often displaying information that's out of date.
    | Because of the various pros and cons, neither technology
    | seems like a "win" over the other; the product designer has
    | to pick one and hope the market agrees. LCDs get the nudge
    | because of cost, though.
 
| kristopolous wrote:
| Glad people are trying to do something new!
| 
| I really like how it's Not derivative. It doesn't look like an
| Apple knockoff product or some other coattail riding project.
| Refreshing.
| 
| Keep at it! This is the kind of innovation we need!
 
  | pcurve wrote:
  | Yes! I don't care if it doesn't type as well as mechanical or
  | rubber keyboard. The cool factor is enough for me to buy one!
 
  | [deleted]
 
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| Am I the only person who wants a Thinkpad type trackpad-button in
| the middle of the keyboard so I don't have to move over to the
| mouse or trackpad?
 
  | bigpeopleareold wrote:
  | Weird - I saw this and thought ... "this is all great, but
  | where's the trackpoint?" :D The only real ooo-ahh for us is if
  | some fancy new keyboard design has a trackpoint. All the pretty
  | lights don't match up to that trackpoint :D
 
  | mackrevinack wrote:
  | i just want a trackpoint on every keyboard in general
 
    | insane_dreamer wrote:
    | shocking to me that so few keyboards implement this; maybe a
    | patent issue?
 
      | thih9 wrote:
      | Could be a demand thing.
      | 
      | Anecdotally, around 2010 I've worked for a company that
      | used Thinkpad laptops, the majority of people would always
      | choose touchpad over trackpoint.
 
  | efficax wrote:
  | https://tex.com.tw/ if you want to shell out a decent wad of
  | cash, you can get one of these. I want one but $200 seems a bit
  | much!
 
    | Ancapistani wrote:
    | > I want one but $200 seems a bit much!
    | 
    | Unsolicited advice: you should definitely never visit
    | /r/mechanicalkeyboards.
 
  | Avshalom wrote:
  | I dunno what the software on this looks like (wrt writing a
  | custom driver) but if you can add knobs it seems like it could
  | pick up trackpoint wiggling around
 
  | pyrolistical wrote:
  | I would rather have a split keyboard with a trackpad in the
  | middle
 
    | insane_dreamer wrote:
    | yes, or better yet a trackball
    | 
    | I did in fact find a keyboard like that online -- some noname
    | brand, and the promise was good, but not the execution. A
    | high quality version would be welcome.
 
  | dschooh wrote:
  | I even went and got myself a Tex Yoda II. I like it, but
  | sometimes I wish it had real arrow keys. Maybe I'd go for a
  | Shinobi next time.
 
    | [deleted]
 
  | calvinmorrison wrote:
  | I want this but a joystick instead of a nub. More leverage
 
    | pjot wrote:
    | For when you need to mouse _really_ fast? Genuinely curious
    | how more leverage would be beneficial
 
      | calvinmorrison wrote:
      | honestly - IDK I feel like the amount of force on my left
      | index finger is kind of high. Turning up the sensitivity
      | doesn't really help either. My nub isn't even very worn.
 
  | adolph wrote:
  | Or capacitance enabled keys so brushing across them performs
  | touch input.
 
    | nomel wrote:
    | Do you know of an example of this? I would assume this would
    | be a terrible experience.
 
      | Avshalom wrote:
      | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_KeyOne
 
      | banana_giraffe wrote:
      | The "Click&Touch" keyboard did this.
      | 
      | I have one. Somewhere. Because the keys need to be as close
      | as possible, it's less than ideal as a keyboard, and
      | because even though the keys are right next to each other
      | there are still gaps between the keys, it's less than ideal
      | as a touchpad.
      | 
      | That's when it worked. It wasn't reliable for me.
 
    | [deleted]
 
    | dividuum wrote:
    | Would be really interesting. I'm sad that the Touchstream
    | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FingerWorks) never got
    | anywhere. Without sensing the keys it was really difficult to
    | use, but the mix of keyboard and touch interface was nice.
 
  | roter wrote:
  | You probably already know about this wired keyboard by Lenovo
  | [0] that features the TrackPoint.
  | 
  | [0] https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/p/accessories-and-
  | software/keyb...
 
    | notpushkin wrote:
    | And you also probably know that it is also possible to build
    | one yourself: https://github.com/rampadc/arduino-thinkpadkb-
    | usb
 
    | insane_dreamer wrote:
    | I did not. Thanks.
    | 
    | The only problem is that I use a split (ergo) keyboard :/
 
      | huhneverthot wrote:
      | [dead]
 
      | LesZedCB wrote:
      | https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76149
      | 
      | https://www.keymouse.com/catalog/keymouse/keymouse-
      | track-3d-...
 
      | thih9 wrote:
      | https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/
      | 
      | I don't use it and know little about the project, I just
      | remembered that it's a split keyboard with an optional
      | trackpoint attachment.
 
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| I think it's the wrong move to make this a keyboard, particularly
| a traditional typewriter layout.
| 
| My main question is: can the hall effect sensors be read as
| variable states instead of boolean keypresses? That could be
| really cool, especially with the display for real-time feedback.
| I can think of so many use cases: change the volume _that hard_.
| WASD like a joystick.
| 
| It would be even cooler if they were in an even orthogonal grid
| pattern like a planck keyboard. That would be a lot like the
| impact-pressure sensitive controllers that are popular in audio
| work.
| 
| I would love something like that too use as a macro pad: keys
| that have arbitrary meaning you can reference. Keys that behave
| differently depending on context, and _show you the context_ in
| real-time. That would be incredibly useful.
| 
| But my keyboard itself? I don't want to look at that. That place
| is for muscle memory alone.
 
  | femto113 wrote:
  | Definitely makes way more sense for a macro pad--you don't hit
  | those keys very frequently so switches are less significant but
  | the key's effect changes often so the screen is useful.
  | Tactility is good, I never liked Apple's Touch Bar for that
  | reason, you had to look to be sure what you were doing. Can't
  | imagine those switches being preferable for the primary keys,
  | but would love to see something like this in the old IBM AT F
  | or XT layout: 10 function keys in two columns on the left side
  | where they could easily be combined with meta keys. Back when I
  | had those (mid to late 1980s) I relied heavily on them, but I
  | almost never use function keys since they moved to the top of
  | the keyboard (and are effectively out of reach).
 
  | pmontra wrote:
  | You don't have to look at the keyboard. If you touch type the
  | switch to emoji key, with a little training your muscle memory
  | can type the right emoji for you and switch back to qwerty.
 
    | thomastjeffery wrote:
    | If I don't want to look at my keyboard, why have a display?
    | 
    | If I do want to look at my keyboard, why have it physically
    | resemble a typewriter from 1800?
 
  | amelius wrote:
  | > My main question is: can the hall effect sensors be read as
  | variable states instead of boolean keypresses?
  | 
  | From the article:
  | 
  | > They also feature a software adjustable actuation point in
  | 0.1mm increment
  | 
  | So probably yes.
 
  | MSFT_Edging wrote:
  | > can the hall effect sensors be read as variable states
  | instead of boolean keypresses
  | 
  | Yes, there's hall-effect keyboards out now that you can
  | configure to have certain keys provide an analog input, for use
  | in things like racing games. Since the actuation point is
  | entirely software, you can keep track of actuation distance.
 
    | thomastjeffery wrote:
    | Neat! I wonder how difficult and expensive it would be to
    | build one.
 
  | xearl wrote:
  | > I would love something like that too use as a macro pad: keys
  | that have arbitrary meaning you can reference. Keys that behave
  | differently depending on context, and show you the context in
  | real-time. That would be incredibly useful.
  | 
  | You might want to have a look at Elgato's Stream Decks.
 
| dgdosen wrote:
| Would the mechanics of those switches be any good?
 
  | junon wrote:
  | They're supposed to be, yes. Maglev and hall effect is a hot
  | topic in keyboard modding communities.
 
| skrebbel wrote:
| Loved the last FAQ entry:
| 
| > Where is Flux based?
| 
| > Flux is based in Sydney, Australia. We are from the future, due
| to time zone differences.
 
| mickdarling wrote:
| I have used a LOT of custom keyboards, looking at an Ergodex DX1
| on my shelf now. I wish this is something I could be confident
| in.
| 
| but, them not treating the screen as a display I think
| significantly limits the utility of this. You have to go through
| their software to customize the screen, layout, and
| customizations. Many of us know how hit-and-miss esoteric
| keyboard software tends to be.
| 
| If they stuck to making it an external display managed by the OS,
| polling the keyboard layout from the OS, and maybe just have
| their app apply custom functions like emojis and tool graphics I
| would have some confidence.
| 
| They are trying to tie up too much to their software which they
| will eventually stop supporting, like my DX1 paperweight.
 
  | daveidol wrote:
  | I see your point, but I actually had the opposite concern when
  | I was first looking at the product page.
  | 
  | I'd actually rather not have to worry about how my OS treats
  | the extra "display" - plus I don't want running my keyboard to
  | eat into my computer's resources in any significant way.
  | 
  | For me, this approach is better. Although I do have some
  | concerns about the software eventually going EOL unless they
  | open source it.
 
  | ryukafalz wrote:
  | > They are trying to tie up too much to their software which
  | they will eventually stop supporting, like my DX1 paperweight.
  | 
  | This is precisely why I probably won't buy one despite it
  | looking honestly very cool.
  | 
  | Hardware manufacturers these days seem to be allergic to
  | telling their customers how to actually talk to their gadgets,
  | in favor of proprietary bundles of software that inevitably go
  | unsupported within a few years.
 
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| I prefer blank keycaps. Better for posture and focus to not be
| looking at your keyboard all the time. Also, maintaining the need
| to see your keys clearly puts arbitrary limits on tent angle.
| 
| I _would_ appreciate something which could understand both my
| keyboard firmware and whichever app has focus, and summon a
| hotkey helper on screen which mirrored my key layout.
 
  | asddubs wrote:
  | if you don't want to shell out for a das keyboard, you could
  | really just use any keyboard and spraypaint all the keycaps
 
  | anoonmoose wrote:
  | I've been using a blank Das Keyboard [1] at work for years.
  | Besides all of the benefits you've listed, I've also found that
  | it's the most effective deterrent for keeping people off my
  | desk/off my computer that I've ever deployed.
  | 
  | [1] https://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-ultimate/
 
    | dkersten wrote:
    | I used a blank DAS to learn to touchtype. I now use a non-
    | blank Kinesis Advantage2, but it has qwerty keycaps while all
    | my devices are colemak so it has a similar effect to blank
    | with the added bonus of confusing other people even more
    | because the keycaps don't match what is typed.
 
      | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
      | Ha, awesome. It makes me want to get some keycaps in some
      | obscure language like klingon, just to mess with people.
 
        | pascal_wizzard wrote:
        | I like to use symbol only space cadet keycaps
        | https://mkultra.click/gb-kat-space-cadet
 
        | asoneth wrote:
        | I ended up going with blank but I did consider getting
        | "Linear A" keycaps
        | https://shop.keyboard.io/products/linear-a-keycaps-m100
        | for my Keyboardio Model 100.
 
    | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
    | Yep, I may have gotten carried away with that. There's
    | nothing so uniquely mine as this: https://imgur.com/a/vXLX4RA
 
    | pathartl wrote:
    | Agreed. I'm also left handed and have my mouse to the left of
    | the keyboard with the buttons swapped. It's amazingly
    | effective.
 
    | JadoJodo wrote:
    | For me, this plus a split keyboard in the Dvorak layout fries
    | the brains of anyone who might dare to try to use my
    | computer.
 
  | fwlr wrote:
  | Not to be pedantic, but in the "Easy Maintenance" clip you can
  | see the keycaps are in fact blank
 
    | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
    | Touche
 
| jmartrican wrote:
| I would buy this. If anything, just for the aesthetics. I'm stuck
| on the Logitec MX keyboard cause it can easily switch between my
| two laptops. I will have to find a solution to be able to do the
| same with this keyboard.
 
| thih9 wrote:
| I wish there was a version without the screen. I'm fine with
| blank keys, I'd even enjoy them.
 
| 1MachineElf wrote:
| I'd love it if they offered an ortholinear keyframe.
 
| qwery wrote:
| As far as I know the "other times this has been tried" all have
| had individual displays (and controllers) in each key. The
| difference being that here there is just one panel under the
| whole board with most of the parts above the display being
| transparent. This approach should be far less complicated to
| build, more robust and cheaper.
| 
| Honestly, I don't think I need an LCD in my keyboard but I'd
| quite like to have a go on some _mAgLeV_ hall effect switches! On
| that note, if you like magnets and /or keebs you might be
| interested in Void switches[0] -- 3D printable hall effect
| switches
| 
| [0] https://github.com/riskable/void_switch
 
  | Groxx wrote:
  | For a simpler but different-feeling option, you can also use
  | rubber domes and glue, e.g.
  | https://github.com/geoffder/dometyl-keyboard/#another-dactyl...
 
    | nerdponx wrote:
    | It's a shame that attempts to build open hardware and
    | firmware for Topre/Niz-style capacitative rubber domes
    | haven't gone anywhere over the years. Unless I'm out of the
    | loop, people are still stuck yanking PCBs and controllers out
    | of their Realforces and HHKBs to use domes in custom builds.
 
      | sodiumjoe wrote:
      | This is the closest I've seen:
      | https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=11734
 
      | nerpderp82 wrote:
      | One could use those silicon popper OCD toys as a keyboard
      | construction method. Still might need some sort of
      | compliant spring mechanism with hysteresis.
 
  | nerdponx wrote:
  | Are there actual custom keyboard PCPs and controllers that
  | support these? That would be pretty damn cool to have a maglev
  | keyboard.
 
    | qwery wrote:
    | There's a kicad library [0] and (STM32F4*) firmware in rust
    | [1] on riskable's github.
    | 
    | Ed: Untested Void Switch Reference PCB Implementation [2]
    | 
    | [0] https://github.com/riskable/void_switch_kicad
    | 
    | [1] https://github.com/riskable/riskeyboard70
    | 
    | [2] https://github.com/riskable/void_switch_65_pct
 
  | k_ wrote:
  | Looks like a nice use case for eink IMO, as I don't see the
  | point of having video playing under my keys but having keycaps
  | that can change depending on the context sounds nice.
 
| gerash wrote:
| I really like the idea. This is touchbar + tactile feedback. This
| could reduce the mental burden of remembering keyboard shortcuts.
 
| l_theanine wrote:
| Jesus. This is the most tasteful, flexed out but not over the top
| landing page I've ever seen.
| 
| I love it. I've no use for something like this, but I'm in
| absolute awe at the design on display. Marvelous. I hope Apple or
| somebody makes this person obscenely wealthy.
 
| shaunxcode wrote:
| Is my decades long quest for a keyboard that can switch between
| space cadet lisp mode and APL finally coming to an end?? I hope
| so. Hyper super meta alpha!
 
  | bmn__ wrote:
  | You can have that today.
  | 
  | Rough outline to get you hacking: Run `setxkbmap -print |
  | xkbcomp -xkb - -` and edit super/hyper/meta keys to your
  | liking. Install result with `xkbcomp my-cool-layout.xkb
  | $DISPLAY`.
  | 
  | IMO APL is best implemented as a new input method rather than a
  | layout, add a new .mim file into /usr/share/m17n.
 
| jetzzz wrote:
| The keyboard itself looks good but hardware vendors (including
| keyboard manufacturers) have a track record of making abysmal
| software. In fact, software should probably be their primary
| focus. From their FAQ it look like they want themselves to add
| support for every application. Will they have an SDK for other
| software vendors to add support to their applications? Being more
| open, e.g. making a github repo where anyone can contribute
| support for any application would be welcome.
 
  | RajT88 wrote:
  | Mark my words. If they release a good SDK for this, and this
  | product catches on, we will have, "Jenna Jameson Teaches
  | Typing".
 
    | bglazer wrote:
    | What's the joke here? I don't understand
 
      | RajT88 wrote:
      | Porn typing game.
 
        | bglazer wrote:
        | Yeah but what does that have to do with this keyboard in
        | particular?
 
        | D13Fd wrote:
        | The keyboard has a screen.
 
        | RajT88 wrote:
        | Rule 34 in video game form.
 
        | kilgnad wrote:
        | I picture a naked torso with all the sensitive zones
        | under the correct letters. Typing the right letters
        | triggers something to happen.
 
    | Levitz wrote:
    | This just sounds like you are completely set on making that.
 
  | pmontra wrote:
  | This keyboard is a computer. They should have built a server of
  | some kind (REST API, whatever) to manage the keyboard and
  | documented it. They could provide a client for Windows, Linux
  | and Mac OS developers would have built one or many of them for
  | their OSes.
 
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| > Linux / Android / iOS - Limited compatibility (see FAQ
| regarding operation without installed software)
| 
| i.e. no, it can't be run without a Windows or MacOS machine to
| set it up first. Oh well, $300-450 was a lot for a keyboard
| anyways. (Well, not bad for what this is, but I have to tell
| myself something to feel better)
 
| theodric wrote:
| So basically the Optimus Maximus again, but a decade and a half
| later. Cool. Everything old is new again.
| 
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ5rX6WpxTk
 
| freedomben wrote:
| Always great to see innovation in the keyboard space! Looks like
| a pretty neat product. I was hoping to see some sort of mouse
| layer or mouse control like on the UHK.
| 
| The UHK totally transformed how I use my desktop. I literally
| don't even have a mouse to plug in now if I wanted to because
| it's been so many years since I needed it. If the UHK ever broke
| or went out of business, I'd be in a world of hurt. Shipping
| times for the UHK are abysmal. I think it took almost a year to
| get my UHKv2. I spent some time searching for a similar product
| but couldn't find it. I don't think implementing that in software
| would be too hard, although it would not be cross platform like
| the UHK is.
| 
| Anyone know of "mouse with the keyboard" solutions?
 
  | nahuel0x wrote:
  | How do you control the mouse using the UHK?
 
| kilgnad wrote:
| easy maintenance is what I really want this for. Even the best
| keyboard eventually transforms into a crusty mess due to how
| dirty I am.
| 
| With this I can I can keep it clean.
 
| jvanderbot wrote:
| > Each key is magnetically suspended with rare earth magnets
| allowing them to be 97% transparent and ultra low friction. Each
| switch has 4mm of travel and will be available in linear and
| tactile variants. They also feature a software adjustable
| actuation point in 0.1mm increments and rapid trigger
| functionality through analog hall effect sensing.
| 
| Ok sign me up.
 
  | nixpulvis wrote:
  | I don't like low travel distances personally :(
 
    | Fetiorin wrote:
    | 4mm is not a low travel distance. Most cherry-like switches
    | have around 4mm travel.
 
      | nixpulvis wrote:
      | Oh, right you are!
 
| tommiegannert wrote:
| > Truly hot swappable 84-key keyframes to switch between tactile
| keys and linear keys in just 2.15 seconds.
| 
| I think I love everything about that sentence.
| 
| An easy-to-clean keyboard could definitely find its uses in dirty
| environments. Even if the screen is glass, the keys should
| protect it pretty well. Depending on how scratch-resistant they
| are. For CNC, being able to customize the keyboard seems really
| useful.
| 
| It's interesting that they say you can play video on it due to
| the built-in 8 GB storage, but it's not available as a display to
| the host. Their point that the "mouse cursor could get lost on
| the keyboard" is a nice rationale, but it does feel like an odd
| limitation for such a powerful device.
| 
| I wonder how complicated it would be to allow customization based
| on SPAs. Their list of initially supported applications suggests
| they are not tackling web apps at launch. E.g. the Google
| Docs/mail suite would be interesting to me.
 
  | fwlr wrote:
  | There are upsides to the "not a display" approach: it means the
  | display isn't being driven by the host, so it's going to be
  | consistent even when your system is under load. I'm sure that
  | was the original rationale for putting in its own ARM chip. I
  | feel like they could totally add a pass-through mode, flip a
  | switch to make it a display for the system to drive.
 
  | russdill wrote:
  | From a cleanability aspect if this maglev system works well I'd
  | just want this without the LCD and clear keycaps.
 
  | data-ottawa wrote:
  | For CNC use I would worry about magnetic bits of metal getting
  | into the keys and scratching the display below.
 
    | daniel_reetz wrote:
    | Yep. Magnets and magnetic cleverness are a real problem for
    | those of us doing any kind of metalwork. They suck up all
    | kinds of conductive metal chips and grinding dust. Even the
    | speaker in a phone can be problematic.
 
| Kukumber wrote:
| Finally an evolution of the keyboard
| 
| People hated on Apple for the touch bar, but this is the natural
| evolution of the keyboard, why stick to fixed physical keys when
| you can have them digitalized to be context aware
| 
| The problem will be the price
| 
| Mechanical keyboard market already is a scam where 90% of
| products are greatly overpriced, that will not encourage them to
| offer a reasonable price unfortunately
| 
| EDIT:
| 
| The keyboard will cost between US$299 - $350 after discounts for
| pre-orders with a retail price of US$450.
| 
| Yeah, the price of a console-tier GPU, way too overpriced to be a
| successful product
 
  | modeless wrote:
  | People didn't hate the touch bar because it had a screen.
  | People hated it because capacitive touch sucks for keyboards.
 
  | Enginerrrd wrote:
  | I actually suspect it's too cheap for what they are promising.
 
  | zuminator wrote:
  | Are you kidding, I saw a mouse the other day selling for two
  | hundred bucks. Provided that by some miracle this has a good
  | keyboard feel, I can imagine entire shops switching over to
  | this in specialized industries, plus loads of gamers,
  | translators, people wanting it as a status symbol. It could
  | even be something of a security measure by obfuscating the keys
  | during login. Even perhaps a laptop manufacturer can license
  | their tech for dual screen laptops like the Lenovo Yoga Book
  | 9i. It wouldn't even be a $400
 
    | Kukumber wrote:
    | It's no wonder companies out there have an insane burn rate,
    | something important got lost in the process
 
| vmoore wrote:
| Anyone have a specific keyboard they really enjoy using?
| 
| For me it's a simple affair: Apple Wired Keyboard. I always liked
| thin keyboards with minimal travel / low profile keyboards.
 
  | jabroni_salad wrote:
  | My logitech K860. The keypresses are crisp but quiet, the
  | raisers are correctly at the bottom of the board rather than
  | the top, the split layout is decent enough, and you can pair up
  | to 3 bluetooth devices, so I can use it to type on my phone
  | too.
 
  | nullnix wrote:
  | I remain obsessed with / utterly dependent on my Maltron
  | (contoured, two-hand, trackball). I have a Glove80 coming:
  | let's see if it wins me over.
 
| [deleted]
 
| WillAdams wrote:
| I was kind of surprised that the keyboard for the Lenovo Yogabook
| 9i dual-screen folding laptop wasn't so done.
 
| sleepybrett wrote:
| Why the fuck do i need video behind my keyboard?
 
| johnvaluk wrote:
| As a touch typist, I can usually adapt quickly to variations in
| the bottom row (Ctrl, Fn, Alt, super key). But I find it
| impossible to use a keyboard with undersized, asymmetrical Shift
| keys. Odd choice for a flexible keyboard.
 
| precompute wrote:
| Looks like a meme, yet another expensive rectangle. The screen
| gimmick will wear away in a few days. Also, keycaps will be very
| difficult to source, and flat keycaps are really uncomfortable.
 
| roarcher wrote:
| Is it possible to give the key tops a concave curve? I find that
| that helps me be a slightly less mediocre typist, but I'm
| guessing it would distort the image underneath.
 
| [deleted]
 
| brigadier132 wrote:
| The screen is the least interesting part of this for me and might
| actually be a negative. The mag lev switches, now that's cool.
 
| ideasman42 wrote:
| At what point would the magnets lose their strength?
 
| ris58h wrote:
| Interesting. It could be used together with a foldable
| laptop/tablet. Something like ThinkPad X1 Fold.
 
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