[HN Gopher] Philadelphia Phreakers installing free payphone
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Philadelphia Phreakers installing free payphone
 
Author : DoktorDelta
Score  : 189 points
Date   : 2022-12-21 15:26 UTC (7 hours ago)
 
web link (www.nbcphiladelphia.com)
w3m dump (www.nbcphiladelphia.com)
 
| theonething wrote:
| anyone remember the needles in coin return slot scare growing up?
| We didn't the internet to check if it was real so I'd always be a
| little paranoid when getting my coins back.
| 
| https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/slots-of-fun/
 
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| My big worry with the disappearance of public pay-phones is for
| the homeless and other poor. However, I recently learned that
| there are often programs to assist them with getting cellular
| devices. All in all, a mobile device is probably much more useful
| than a public payphone (as long as they can keep it charged). I'm
| a little under-educated on what the actual reality of this
| situation is, tbh.
 
  | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
  | Critics often call the free phones _Obama phones_
 
    | pessimizer wrote:
    | Supporters often call the free phones "Obama phones" too.
    | Just like Obamacare started off as a slur towards ACA, the
    | party saw Obama's name as a way to link a benefit to
    | Democrats and detourned it. It's like the Bush tax rebate or
    | the Trump stimulus.
 
    | zikduruqe wrote:
    | Which Lifeline phones started in 1985 under Regan.
    | 
    | https://www.fcc.gov/general/lifeline-program-low-income-
    | cons...
    | 
    | But it's easy to blame Obama.
 
      | notinfuriated wrote:
      | It was a relatively memorable moment of the 2012 election.
      | 
      | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio
      | 
      | I had a note in this comment on fraud, but it looks like
      | there was probably a consistent pattern of waste/fraud for
      | a long time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Servic
      | e_Fund#Waste_a...). There were some proven accusations of
      | fraud in 2012 as well:
      | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY4cy95VFes
 
        | [deleted]
 
        | zikduruqe wrote:
        | Obama Phone Lady as evidence of fraud.... laughable.
        | 
        | I used to sell Lifeline phones into certain carriers back
        | in 2009 - 2012 when I worked with various phone OEMs. I
        | can see where some phone resellers could create some
        | fraud.
        | 
        | But the government is not involved. They merely subsidize
        | the program.
 
        | notinfuriated wrote:
        | Just to be clear, I was not claiming that Obama phone
        | lady was evidence of fraud. I was only pointing out it
        | was a memorable moment during the 2012 election because
        | that clip was replayed ad nauseam at the time. So I think
        | people call them "Obama phones" because of a fairly
        | successful campaign at pinning their existence or
        | popularity on Barack Obama (where this woman credited her
        | free phone to Obama), and this particular video clip was
        | shown quite a bit at the time.
        | 
        | The fraud remark in my comment was about the other news
        | video I linked and also a link to wikipedia. Free phones
        | and phone plans are really, really low on my list of
        | things I care about in terms of examples of bad
        | governance in the US.
 
      | tomschlick wrote:
      | Around the time Obama became president is when they started
      | giving cell phones from the program instead of just
      | subsidizing landline phones. It happened before he was
      | president but given the recession that took place while he
      | was president it was regarded as the Obama phone because he
      | was president when the majority of people got them.
 
    | bittercynic wrote:
    | Such a strange twist of language.
    | 
    | As someone who thinks free phones to those who need one is a
    | good thing, and thinks Obama was generally a pretty good
    | dude, I wouldn't automatically ready negative sentiment into
    | those words.
 
  | Daltzn wrote:
  | Every hospital I have ever been have a free phone in the ED
  | waiting room. It's common to see a homeless person using it.
  | Has a list of numbers for shelters, taxis etc posted along side
  | it.
 
  | mzs wrote:
  | Their cellphones tend to get stolen 2-4 times a year.
 
  | forgotmypw17 wrote:
  | It is a helpful program. With minimal paperwork, you get a
  | device with calling and data service. The phone hardware ranges
  | from basic to decent. They typically have much less crapware
  | installed than your average store phone.
  | 
  | Several challenges with the program exist, compared to
  | payphones.
  | 
  | a) It is difficult to hold on to anything when you live on the
  | street, even without any bad habits. Without a place to keep
  | your things, they regularly get lost, stolen, etc. If you have
  | a habit, you may also be tempted to pawn the device for a few
  | bucks.
  | 
  | b) The paperwork and process is minimal, but is still a
  | barrier. For example, some programs do not give you a device on
  | the spot, but it must be mailed to you. I had mine mailed to a
  | post office and it got lost. I never received the device, but I
  | was marked as having ordered one in the system. From that point
  | on, even years later, I could never qualify for another one.
  | 
  | Compare this to a stationary device that's always there that
  | doesn't have to be maintained by you, and the advantages are
  | clear.
  | 
  | New York has a pretty good system of LinkNYC kiosks, which
  | provide basic calling service, and are maintained reasonably
  | well (about half work at any given time.) They were better when
  | they allowed browsing the web, but that functionality was taken
  | away after Reddit raised a stink about someone browsing porn on
  | them.
 
    | sam345 wrote:
    | Reasonably well = half work?
 
      | forgotmypw17 wrote:
      | they get a lot of use and abuse, so I imagine it's
      | difficult to keep up with repairs.
 
  | intrasight wrote:
  | Homeless and poor can get free phones in many municipalities.
  | I'm a technical consultant for the BigBurg app
  | [http://www.informingdesign.com/bigburgh] and getting free
  | phones into people's hands in part of the project. It actually
  | saves the municipalities money - which makes sense in our
  | digital society. They are able to deliver social services more
  | directly and at lower cost.
  | 
  | Hopefully those free phone booths also have a USB port for
  | charging.
 
    | shagie wrote:
    | ... that then get stolen (and make it difficult to use for
    | 2FA).
    | 
    | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33120534
 
| ipdashc wrote:
| I'm somewhat acquainted with one of the guys running this effort,
| and it's really been amazing to see it go from "unknown niche
| hobby project" to "all over the news" practically overnight.
| Nobody is sure why the media seized on it so much, but in the
| course of a week or two, it went from completely obscure, to
| being reported on by a few Internet-based techy/nerdy media
| outlets, to being talked about by the mainstream news (NBC!). I
| guess people are more interested in payphones than expected.
| 
| Though it does bum me out that a typical comment section on the
| mainstream news articles is 30% "why is the government spending
| money on this? Lower my taxes!!" It's a completely volunteer
| project guys, there is no government money involved... ah well.
 
  | DannyBee wrote:
  | Do you know why does he pay per minute?
  | 
  | Can't he hook it up to ooma or something that only charges the
  | monthly regulatory fees?
 
    | mmcgaha wrote:
    | I was thinking stick in a gsm module with $7/month airvoice
    | sim.
    | 
    | https://www.airvoicewireless.com/plan/monthy-plan
 
    | mandelbrotwurst wrote:
    | Most likely he's not and the article contains an inaccuracy.
 
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| This is all good, hack the planet and all that, but meanwhile
| there are Link NYC boxes with free calls all over NYC no?
| (debatable quality etc but still, they're there)
 
  | c22 wrote:
  | The gas station near my house still runs a COCOT. I don't know
  | what to tell you.
 
  | aposm wrote:
  | However those are well-documented to be data-harvesting devices
  | placed by a for-profit company, despite receiving government
  | money as well. PhilTel is a non-profit volunteer organization
  | run by community members.
 
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| Other discussion on this earlier this month:
| 
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33851030
 
| dragonsky67 wrote:
| In Australia a couple of years ago Telstra, which I believe is
| required by the government to provide public phones. They have
| discovered that it's cheaper to just provide the phones free
| rather than have to continuously repair them after people try to
| jack the coin hopper or deal with support for refunding card
| payments when the payment succeeds but the call does not go
| through.
| 
| https://exchange.telstra.com.au/why-were-making-payphones-fr...
 
  | SQueeeeeL wrote:
  | 'Something something, tragedy of the commons. Some veiled
  | comment about "undesirables" using the phones all the time.
  | There's no such thing as a free lunch, this is a perversion of
  | all known theory to not force a profit.'
 
| ourmandave wrote:
| Reminded me of 2600 magazine's reader pics of payphones from
| around the world.
| 
| I haven't looked at a copy in forever so I don't know if it's
| still a thing.
 
  | tux wrote:
  | Actually 2600 is still alive and well, they sell 2600 Magazine:
  | The Hacker Quarterly @ Amazon. [1]
  | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2600:_The_Hacker_Quarterly
 
    | arthurjj wrote:
    | Their podcast, off the hook is weekly and in the same spirit.
    | https://www.2600.com/offthehook/
 
  | knewter wrote:
  | It is and it is still why I go to the magazine stand if I'm in
  | a bookstore
 
| Eleison23 wrote:
 
| c22 wrote:
| See also: futel
| 
| http://futel.net/
| 
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32118936
 
| giantg2 wrote:
 
  | mikestew wrote:
  | Why disagree? I don't, necessarily. But you took a side comment
  | and turned it into a very off-topic topic of discussion that
  | has nothing to do with TFA. Have a downvote.
 
    | [deleted]
 
    | giantg2 wrote:
 
  | schoen wrote:
  | You replied to a complaint about an off-topic post elsewhere
  | with a further discussion of the substance of the off-topic
  | issue. So other HN readers were probably not eager to have you
  | continue that discussion in this thread.
 
    | giantg2 wrote:
    | Why is the off-topic comment I was replying to the top
    | comment for the submission? I guess I just suck. Thanks.
 
    | [deleted]
 
| vips7L wrote:
| I wonder how long it will take before my fellow Philadelphians
| smash these things.
 
  | dylan604 wrote:
  | What? Are you saying the City of Brotherly Love is truly closer
  | to the City of Brotherly Shove?
 
| xattt wrote:
| Tangential, but what would be the most expensive outgoing call
| destination from mainland North America, sat phones excluded?
 
  | lormayna wrote:
  | Many years ago I worked for a VOIP provider. The most expensive
  | frauds that we detected was calling special service in remote
  | place of the world like Tristan de Cunha, Nauru, Falkland or
  | Buthan. Something like 50$ for minutes and 10$ at the response.
 
  | willcipriano wrote:
  | Not a destination but my guess is one of these would be the
  | most expensive call (I think some people here are young enough
  | to not be aware of these):
  | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premium-rate_telephone_numbe...
 
  | sbarre wrote:
  | North Korea I believe.. then all the little Pacific islands.
 
  | Scoundreller wrote:
  | For a while there was a lot of in-cahoots fraud where a
  | country's telecom would make seemingly arbitrary numbers a
  | premium rate $$$/min number and some uncareful VoIP providers
  | got hosed.
  | 
  | https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0919/058.html?sh=3e7f98cc...
 
| elecush wrote:
| really great to consider what the younger generations will
| surmise
 
| thrownaway561 wrote:
| I applaud this in so many ways... however the realist in me knows
| that, like most pay phones, this thing will be vandalized in a
| matter of weeks.
 
| geocrasher wrote:
| I'm not sure what surprised me more: Seeing a guy installing free
| payphones (a great idea!) or seeing the term "Phreaker" on HN :D
 
  | myvoiceismypass wrote:
  | The article linked does not mention it, but these phones are
  | connected to PhreakNet also: https://portal.phreaknet.org/
 
    | jrochkind1 wrote:
    | Wow! I... do not understand what this is. Can phreaknet make
    | and receive calls from the general public phone network?
 
      | tecleandor wrote:
      | Nope, as I understand is a parallel network.
      | 
      | https://portal.phreaknet.org/faq
 
  | Quarrelsome wrote:
  | > seeing the term "Phreaker" on HN
  | 
  | its not _that_ uncommon is it? Given that phreakers are like
  | the genesis of hackers.
 
    | _joel wrote:
    | Not really, I recall this being posted when it came out which
    | has a good phreaking lineage :)
    | http://www.phrack.org/issues/70/1.html
 
    | intelkishan wrote:
    | Phreakers were the second generation of hackers. The original
    | hackers were a collective of students in MIT
 
      | _joel wrote:
      | Phreaking is phone comms, which is a subset of
      | hacking/cracking imho
 
        | nbk_2000 wrote:
        | This is how I've always heard it categorized, since at
        | least the early 90's.
 
      | manv1 wrote:
      | No, phreakers have been around since the Bell system.
      | That's Capt. Crunch etc.
 
        | m4jor wrote:
        | I met Capt. Crunch at DEF CON 5-6 years ago.
        | 
        | I was so excited and even got a picture with him. Then I
        | found out about his dark and sketchy past from others
        | when I told people about it.
        | 
        | tl;dr = hes basically a sexual predator/creeper w young
        | boys.
 
        | mistrial9 wrote:
        | I will defend Capt. Crunch a bit.. no, not 'predator'
        | thats a legal accusation. AutoDesk brought a fully
        | configured Sun to his messy desk in the 1980s, and "the
        | workout" was sort of repressed sexual behavior yes, but
        | not 'predator' .. no way.. How many people here are
        | active kinky ? loud about it too.. Its a complicated
        | story.. no CANCEL on Capt Crunch, please
        | 
        | If you want to hate on someone in a cowardly anonymous
        | way, I would go for that ReiserFS guy, who lived in the
        | same area at the same time
 
        | squarefoot wrote:
        | Parent is probably referring to the Tech Model Railroad
        | Club at MIT, which is considered the first recognized
        | group of hackers and predates Capt. Crunch by at least a
        | decade.
 
  | theCrowing wrote:
  | we still phreaking.
 
| CivBase wrote:
| Does anyone still make phone books? I can count the number of
| phone numbers I have memorized on one hand. Without access to a
| phone number registry of some sort, I think these would have
| extremely limited value to most people.
| 
| It's a neat project though.
 
  | binarymax wrote:
  | Looks like white pages can be ordered for free[0], but yellow
  | pages ceased print copy in 2017.
  | 
  | [0] https://www.verizon.com/about/our-company/white-pages
 
  | _joel wrote:
  | In the UK they were still about up until recently but became
  | smaller and smaller. I've not had a landline for years now so
  | not sure if they're still released now. I'd imagine not, but
  | who knows.
 
  | AussieWog93 wrote:
  | >I think these would have extremely limited value to most
  | people.
  | 
  | Quite recently in Australia, every single phone booth in the
  | country was made free to use.
  | 
  | When asked why this was the case, the spokesperson for Telstra
  | (the company that owned them) explained that one of the major
  | users of phone booths were people escaping from domestic
  | violence situations. Apparently it was very common for abusive
  | partners to control phone access (and access to cash, too,
  | hence why they made the network free).
  | 
  | Point is, don't underestimate the importance of obsolete
  | services!
 
    | jessaustin wrote:
    | Seems to indicate that Telstra is better than every single
    | American phone company?
 
  | twobitshifter wrote:
  | I see what you're saying but if you don't have a phone, you'll
  | remember the numbers you need or at least write them down
  | somewhere and create your own registry. If you don't have that
  | there's always 411
 
  | tclancy wrote:
  | Sadly, they stopped giving them out around here almost a decade
  | ago. Made me sad, because we got them in early October and
  | every year I would hang onto it until near the end of the night
  | on Halloween when some over-aged kid doing the ironic tour
  | called out "Trick or treat" and I'd say "trick" and drop it in
  | their pillowcase.
 
  | sbarre wrote:
  | When I was younger some of my friends who had very limited
  | income could often not afford to top up their cell phone
  | minutes, but still had their phone with an address book full of
  | numbers in their pocket. I would lend them my phone and they'd
  | call someone from the list in their phone using my phone.
  | 
  | I feel like someone who relies on free or community phones
  | would have a similar book of numbers that are meaningful to
  | them.
  | 
  | Of course if you're looking to call somewhere new, then that's
  | definitely an issue.
 
    | c22 wrote:
    | When I was a kid I had a DTMF tone-dialer which was a small
    | device with all my numbers in it and a small speaker in a
    | rubber cup. I could select a number from the list then hold
    | the speaker against the receiver of a (hardwired) telephone
    | to dial the number. I actually had two of these, the other of
    | which I modified to simulate the signalling sound of dimes
    | and quarters dropping into a payphone.
 
  | weberer wrote:
  | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-1-1
 
| graupel wrote:
| Wait so this is a real....phone? Using old-school twisted pair
| phone lines? If it has a monthly cost that scales with use it
| must, but it seems like making this IP would be more practical,
| if a little less fun?
 
  | c22 wrote:
  | No, they're using analog telephone adapters and Asterisk. [0]
  | 
  | [0]: https://philtel.org/2022/12/15/asterisk-overview.html
 
| tecleandor wrote:
| Time really flies! I still remember when my friends from the
| Patio Maravillas social center in Madrid set up one in this
| style... in 2009 ! At the time and in the beginning, it was a
| bunch of countries only, as VoIP gateways weren't as popular as
| now.
| 
| https://web.archive.org/web/20090402170754/http://www.patiom...
| 
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patio_Maravillas
 
| kepler1 wrote:
| How long before someone with less-than-good intentions walks up
| and starts using this phone in ways that the creators didn't
| intend, and it has to be shut down?
 
  | jandrese wrote:
  | Being somewhat famous and in a public place makes it less than
  | ideal for calling in bomb threats or whatnot.
 
  | c22 wrote:
  | Like as a bludgeoning weapon or something? Legally I think this
  | service falls under common carrier protections.
 
  | everybodyknows wrote:
  | Users are apparently anonymous -- this will make it non-
  | sustainable. One plausible fix: A video camera that records
  | faces. Otherwise the homeless will be taking a beating from the
  | local drug dealer whenever they get in the way of urgent
  | business.
  | 
  | Like this:
  | 
  |  _Q. Do Links have cameras and what happens to the footage?
  | 
  | There are two security cameras on each Link._
  | 
  | https://www.link.nyc/faq.html
 
| bitwize wrote:
| "...and never again pay for a service that would be dirt cheap,
| if it weren't run by a bunch of profiteering gluttons!"
| 
| Hack the planet!
 
| slackfan wrote:
| A free PAYphone seems like an oxymoron.
| 
| Perhaps they meant public phone?
 
  | Wohlf wrote:
  | It's more about the image a payphone conjures in the mind,
  | which is accurate.
 
| nashashmi wrote:
| New Idea: Android tablet connected by wire (PoE?) with tap-and-
| pay NFC giving out a unique Wifi QR code. And that will give you
| pay-per-use-or by-minute internet at every booth. A free phone
| call is just a headphone plug away with voice activated calling.
| Full hardware with phone handle and/or tablet screen browsing is
| (much) extra.
 
  | noAnswer wrote:
  | Pay phones had a pay for Wifi options. (At least in Germany.)
  | It didn't save them neither.
 
  | awiesenhofer wrote:
  | > pay-per-use
  | 
  | Why would you charge for that? Especially if you want to help
  | homeless etc.?
  | 
  | Just make it a free wifi hotspot and be done with it.
 
  | e_i_pi_2 wrote:
  | I think the main goal here is that people using the phone don't
  | have to pay for it. To that point though, it may be cheaper to
  | use an existing (maybe thrown away) phone and just install it
  | in a phone booth, then have an unlimited calling service set up
  | so it's free for anyone on the street to use
 
| plusminusplus wrote:
| Who's listening in?
 
| tux wrote:
| One of the best projects I've seen in years. This project should
| receive some sort of grant or at least award from Philadelphia.
| This brought back good memories :) EDIT: Hack The Planet and
| maybe @giantg2 for downvotes! ^_^
 
  | giantg2 wrote:
  | Good luck getting money from Philly. Philly is one of the
  | poorest big cities. They certainly don't have money for
  | anything like this. Better off looking for grants from rich
  | people who work in Philly (I didn't say residents because most
  | of them choose to live outside the city in places like Radnor).
 
| baron816 wrote:
| Will the pay phones support Apple Pay?
 
  | jagged-chisel wrote:
  | It supports any payment system that permits a sale of $0.00
 
| martyvis wrote:
| All the 15000 payphones in Australia are free and have WiFi.
| https://www.telstra.com.au/consumer-advice/payphones
 
  | sillypuddy wrote:
  | Who pays for them to be free?
 
    | femto wrote:
    | It's worth it to Telstra, to hold onto the real estate. They
    | have effectively been been gifted a nationwide network of
    | plots of land and structures that turn out to be a good match
    | for 5G/6G/WiFi base station locations.
    | 
    | They are probably kicking themselves for ripping out so many
    | phones in the past, thus giving up the locations.
 
| pmarreck wrote:
| I love that a phone phreaker has a "free payphone" hobby project!
 
| niklasrde wrote:
| BT in the UK has been replacing payphones with advertising
| billboard, with a little digital infopad, USB charging and free
| domestic calls. Calls are cheap as, they probably still make a
| profit with the advertising. It's win-win, though they are a bit
| of an eyesore.
 
  | ascagnel_ wrote:
  | NYC has been doing the same thing, but there are concerns over
  | tracking (the terminals are equipped with cameras that may or
  | may not be running facial recognition software).
 
| finnh wrote:
| > Mike Dank
| 
|  _name checks out_
 
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(page generated 2022-12-21 23:00 UTC)