[HN Gopher] Reversible and irreversible decisions (2018)
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Reversible and irreversible decisions (2018)
 
Author : durmonski
Score  : 61 points
Date   : 2022-10-30 18:15 UTC (4 hours ago)
 
web link (fs.blog)
w3m dump (fs.blog)
 
| noduerme wrote:
| This may work for business, where only money is at stake. But the
| hardest decisions in life are the ones where both options are
| irreversible. e.g. choosing to have an abortion or have a baby
| with someone you barely know. There's no reversible way to check
| the other side of either door.
 
| FinanceAnon wrote:
| I use this model a lot in life. I like to remember about this
| when in arguments with someone - once you say something that you
| later regret, it's very difficult to take it back.
 
| nerdponx wrote:
| Interesting framework. Perhaps one of the difficulties is that
| decision reversibility tends to lie on a spectrum between
| "reversible" and "irreversible", and sometimes it's hard to even
| know where on that spectrum it lies. Thus you end up having to
| figure out if a decision is "reversible", maybe even first
| needing to develop a decision framework in which to make such a
| determination. I think all of the truly difficult decisions I've
| made in work and life have been in this category.
| 
| Still, I appreciate this concept and I think it's better to have
| the mental model than not.
 
  | steveBK123 wrote:
  | Right, Bezos & this blog are framing the world as black & white
  | when its really just lots of gray.
  | 
  | Many things that you could bucket into "type 2" decisions which
  | are not one-way doors, effectively are. For example, orgs that
  | tend to never go back and fix technical debt means everything
  | is a one-way door.
  | 
  | Further, design decisions that require substantial and growing
  | effort once you go through the door .. are effectively one-way
  | doors as well.
  | 
  | Maybe ZIRP era over staffed FAANG could afford to build and
  | rebuilt, have multiple competing redundant systems to see who
  | wins, etc.. but most tech orgs just don't work that way.
 
| photochemsyn wrote:
| I've been learning a bit about distributed databases and of
| course AWS is a major user of such systems. The decision to do a
| mass migration from one distributed system to another, as an
| example, doesn't fit well with the kind of 'executive boardroom'
| mentality that this article is talking about.
| 
| The fundamental issue is more just taking the possiblity of error
| and failure of strategy into account. Hence, having a rollback
| strategy in place beforehand is wise. This post discusses a few
| basic recovery strategies plus more complicated ones:
| 
| https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/database/rolling-back-from-a-mi...
| 
| Bezos is likely well aware that the real world is always more
| complex than two simple choices, but that's too much information
| for a sales-confidence pitch to shareholders, I imagine.
 
| simonw wrote:
| I've used a similar model successfully in work situations where a
| decision is taking too long to make but is something that's
| reversible: pick a path, and put a note in the calendar to review
| that decision in a couple of weeks time.
| 
| If it turns out to be the wrong direction you can course correct
| then.
| 
| This really helps if not everyone on a team is convinced that
| it's the right decision: they can commit to it knowing that there
| will be a chance to change direction pretty soon if it turns out
| not to work.
 
  | ghaff wrote:
  | Way back when I was a product manager the team would constantly
  | want decisions in this or that. The reality was that a lot of
  | these decisions really didn't matter or didn't matter much and
  | could be course corrected. So the best course of action was to
  | make some decision any decision. It was usually more informed
  | than flipping a coin but it often didn't need a lot of deep
  | study either.
 
| scared333 wrote:
| I guess russian leadership failed to consider this when they
| started their illegal imperial war to annex Ukraine. People of
| russia are almost irreversibly becoming the new 'nazis' of whose
| attrocities the kids will learn at school and of whom they will
| learn to despise for the rest of of their lives (while the
| earlier ones will be just another chapter in the history books
| that is read with the same enthusiasm that most study geopolitics
| behind WW1 currently).
| 
| This is not to suggest that the attrocities (at this point
| anyway) would be comparable, but that history is moving ahead.
| 
| Sorry about political angle, but due to my circumstances, I am
| very angry of what is happening, and I think these things cannot
| be repeated too many times.
 
  | uri4 wrote:
  | Everything with US is reversible, just wait until next
  | election... I really hope not too many people will die until
  | then. Iran, Afghanistan, Lybia, Syria, Jemen... another
  | pointless war. World needs something better!
 
  | rvba wrote:
  | > People of russia are almost irreversibly becoming the new
  | 'nazis'
  | 
  | Is this really "new"? It's like you never heard about
  | Stalinism, or even earlier: Leninism. Starting from 1920 war
  | Bolsheviks tried to invade Poland; they starved millions in
  | Ukraine in holodomor ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
  | ), they backstabbed Poland in 1939 only to "free" it, just like
  | they "freed" rest of Eastern Europe. Later they crushed the
  | Czech uprising in 1956 (
  | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring )...
  | 
  | Not to mention millions who died in gulags.
  | 
  | It's like history 101. High school level stuff. You really
  | never heard about it earlier?
  | 
  | The cycle is described in the old cartoon:
  | https://twitter.com/theeconomist/status/447387748748759040
 
    | scared333 wrote:
    | I haven't been completely unaware of those and other things.
    | But vast majority of my history classes and bringing up
    | focused on nazi germany being the sole responsible for
    | everything WW2 and how we beat them. And then soviets being
    | the commies and the enemy of the free world. And then the
    | wall came down and everything was swell again.
    | 
    | So yes, I have been ignorant. Of which I am sorry. I may be
    | late in the game, but let's put it out a loud: where are the
    | russians living outside of russia that are protesting against
    | russias war on Ukraine?
 
  | creatorbytes wrote:
  | What Russia is doing is horrible. War crimes and all. However I
  | wouldn't go so far as call them nazis, think it dampens that
  | metaphor when it's over used.
  | 
  | Russia feels NATO expansion is too close to their doorstep, he
  | warned many times and this is the outcome.
  | 
  | Obviously not condoning it, and it's many millions of lives
  | displaced and tens of thousands lost. Generations will be
  | effected.
  | 
  | Russia using the excuse of nazis in Ukraine, and the need to
  | free the Ukrainian people is a tall tail. Though there is a
  | small amount of truth, of actual nazis existing in some of the
  | armed forces of Ukraine [0]. But by no means justifies what's
  | been done.
  | 
  | [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-
  | probl...
 
  | Animats wrote:
  | No, that's when you _thought_ you were making a reversible
  | decision but events played out in a way that made it
  | irreversible.
 
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| Decision reversibility is much overlooked in resilience
| engineering.
| 
| In a perfect world we'd have a kind of quantum uncertainty, where
| we forked reality into two streams, and maintained two options
| until one or the other proved a safe passage. Quoting from
| Digital Vegan;                 "Consider how the UK government
| let our drinking water reservoirs be       sold off for property
| development, believing that advanced JIT (just       in time)
| management technology, smart metering and so forth, would
| dispense with them. Then climate change came. Reservoirs are like
| power supply capacitors; they absorb as well as smooth out
| supply. Now in the UK we have housing estates built on flood
| plains.       Rivers burst their banks with every downpour.
| Knocking down       thousands of peoples' houses to regain
| reservoir capacity is much       /harder/ than it was to sell the
| reservoirs to developers."
| 
| The transition from a reservoir to a housing estate looks like a
| net gain in "order" (entropy reduction) because it seems to
| create value, but considering the system as a whole (cost of
| losing infrastructure) it increases disorder.
| 
| Similarly our gushing project toward an "online cashless society"
| is playing with dangerous forces. It's a net destruction of
| wealth and order. It won't be cheap or quick to re-open shops,
| print and distribute cash, install ATMs and money handling
| facilities once the terrifying brittleness of a wholly digital
| economy becomes clear. Those imagining "Nothing can possibly go
| wrong with the all Bitcoin + Amazon society", haven't thought
| through the reality of what happens when tens of millions of
| people can't get food even though it's in a warehouse less than
| 100 miles from their house.
 
| city17 wrote:
| I try to apply a similar mental model to new purchases. It can be
| tempting to weigh all the pros and cons of different products and
| find out a detailed list of all the possible alternatives.
| 
| But often you just have to try a product to find out if it works
| for you. In that case it can help to think about what risk there
| is in just buying something that seems ok.
| 
| If you can return it easily, or if it doesn't lose much value in
| using and you can sell it used for 90% of the new price then
| there's no real downside to just making a quick decision.
| 
| Detailed analysis is only really worth it for more 'irreversible'
| purchases where it's either a big hassle to undo the purchase
| (buying a house) or there's a large cost (cars lose value
| quickly).
 
  | lazide wrote:
  | What goods can you easily get 90% of the purchase price back?
  | 
  | In my experience, unless you're spending a lot of time and
  | effort selling, 50-60% is the best you can hope for most of the
  | time.
 
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