[HN Gopher] Classic 50mm "Normal" Lens
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Classic 50mm "Normal" Lens
 
Author : Tomte
Score  : 86 points
Date   : 2022-10-30 14:44 UTC (8 hours ago)
 
web link (www.garyvoth.com)
w3m dump (www.garyvoth.com)
 
| oliwarner wrote:
| The Nifty Fifty is a forgotten lens? Since when?
| 
| It's a classic, super cheap and usually very fast prime that's a
| recommended starter prime on every photography website I've ever
| visited.
 
| Finnucane wrote:
| Because I am old I grew up when zoom lenses generally were not
| good. So I always used prime lenses. Even now, when
| intellectually I know that thanks to fancy glass and cad-cam
| methods, zoom lenses are much better than they used to be, I
| still tend not to use them. But lately I tend to use either a 28
| or 85 rather than the 50.
 
| podiki wrote:
| Title should be "The Forgotten Lens" though as a fan of the 50mm
| just "The" Lens works for me :)
| 
| The 50mm f/1.8 Z lens for Nikon is really magical, I love any
| chance to use it.
 
  | muro wrote:
  | Same here, have a bunch of lenses, but this one is almost
  | always on the camera. I'm tempted by the 50mm 1.2, but its
  | price gives me pause and I'm worried about its weight.
 
    | _ph_ wrote:
    | One shouldn't get too crazy about aperture. On a modern 35mm
    | camera you rarely need the f/1.4. Certainly not for gathering
    | enough light and usually the DOF is small enough at f/2
    | already. So you can get a much lighter and cheaper lens by
    | not going for the fastest aperture.
    | 
    | A nice alternative are the Voigtlander lenses, which are
    | available or adaptable to modern mirrorless cameras. They
    | tend to be less pricy and quite compact. I personally love my
    | Voigtlander 50/3.5. It isn't the fastest lens, obviously, but
    | lovely, compact and has a great image quality. Steve Huff had
    | a glowing review of it some time ago.
 
      | trap_goes_hot wrote:
      | In general I agree, but as you probably know, the answer
      | almost always is - it depends :)
      | 
      | So it depends on the focal length. I use both 24 and 35mm
      | at 1.4 pretty much every-time I use them. At those focal
      | lengths, and normal subject distances, they don't have
      | crazy shallow depth-of-field where only one eye-lash is in
      | focus. I can get great environmental portraits where the
      | subject pops a bit more than 1.8/2.0 etc.
 
| zokier wrote:
| > The 50mm lens, once the mainstay of 35mm photography, has been
| all but forgotten by today's photographers.
| 
| > Before falling to its current level of disfavor, the 50mm lens
| had a long and distinguished pedigree
| 
| umm, I'm pretty sure nifty-fiftys have been top recommendation
| always for people wanting to explore beyond the kit zoom. And
| quickly checking some camera stores, indeed, they are one of the
| top selling lenses around. Not really sure where author is
| getting the idea that it is some obscure forgotten relic.
 
  | combatentropy wrote:
  | > I'm pretty sure nifty-fiftys have been top recommendation
  | always for people wanting to explore beyond the kit zoom.
  | 
  | His article isn't addressed to "people wanting to explore
  | beyond the kit zoom". It's addressed to people who just
  | finished unwrapping "that new 35mm camera kit you bought to
  | document your child's early years", who accepted the default
  | lens and have only a foggy awareness of the pros and cons of
  | different lenses. His article is meant to turn these people
  | into "people wanting to explore beyond the kit zoom".
 
| TomK32 wrote:
| It's an old piece and maybe not of of the famous lenses, but all
| I could afford in the late oughts: A Konica Autoreflex T4 with
| the 50mm/1.8 pancake and I did some great photos with it.
| Nowadays I often use it on a modern 4/3rds with an adapter (not
| so pancake) and still gives me a nice handling.
 
| FortiDude wrote:
| My brain sees in 4:3 40mm, 50mm on 3:2 cameras feels too crammed
 
| mgrund wrote:
| The "nifty fifty" is certainly not forgotten and absolutely a
| great buy.
 
  | rabuse wrote:
  | It's basically everyone's first lens for the bokeh craze, and
  | then you just keep hunting for even creamier bokeh, until
  | you're broke and wondering where all your money went.
 
| simonblack wrote:
| I paid a lot of money for a super-duper zoom lens, way back when.
| But I kept leaving that zoom lens in my bag and using only the
| 'standard' 50mm lens because it was a far better lens.
| 
| Today we use crappy phone lenses and force ourselves to think
| that they're wonderful, but I have very fond memories of that
| Canon 50mm lens on my Canon film camera.
 
| wiredfool wrote:
| Site says 2022, but I could have written this in 2007. With the
| addition of -- get the flash off the camera, and set the power
| manually. Off the camera makes the flash light define the shape
| of what you're shooting, and setting the power manually means no
| preflash -- so no blinks.
| 
| Personally, I went from the 50 to a 40/2.8 which had a much
| faster focus speed and better build quality -- and I basically
| never shot wide open anyway because the focus plane would be so
| narrow as to be unusable. And the 100/2, which was just an
| awesome lens, good color, shape, everything.
| 
| But in the intervening 15 years, DSLRs are now dead, mirrorless
| is hanging on, and basically, it's computational photography from
| phones. Best camera is the one you have and so that's where it's
| done. It doesn't hurt that Apple has more R/D budget for their
| phone than the entire legacy camera industry.
| 
| But given the prices of the 5d on ebay now, I might must pick up
| the camera I lusted for then and couldn't afford, so that it can
| spend time gathering dust on the shelf like the other DSLRs.
 
| Marazan wrote:
| 50mm prime is like a cheat code for photography. Slapping one on
| my camera improved my shots by an order of magnitude
 
| rixrax wrote:
| My cell phone has become my normal lens. New phones from both
| Apple and Google take such a good photos that literally all my
| street photography is shot with them. I'll grab my trusty A7r4 /w
| either wide or very long variety of lenses if I will be going to
| some special place etc. with specific purpose of shooting
| something that is (in my opinion that is) worth recording in the
| detail only achievable with this gear. But other than some far
| and few grand landscapes or wildlife, most of my most amazing(?)
| photos nowadays come from my cell phone. Case in point - was
| driving last night along the city street and was passing this
| church/graveyard which just looked amazingly spooky in the
| dark/fog/street lighting; stopped my car in the middle of the
| street, rolled down the window, and snapped couple of (raw)
| photos with the phone before driving away. Because the phone is
| with me all the time, it has become my new normal lens.
 
| natas wrote:
| If I had only one lens, it would be a 50mm prime. I have 3, mind
| you, a 35mm, 50mm and 90mm, but 99% of the time, I only attach
| the 50mm to the camera; zero regrets.
 
| aimor wrote:
| What's limiting new digital cameras from becoming faster? A
| decade ago a friend showed me his digital camera with an ISO
| setting in the thousands and I was amazed at how little noise
| there was. I've since been a little disappointed that I'm still
| balancing noise and aperture shooting indoors. Phones take on the
| problem with heavy image processing, but I'm interested in
| hardware solutions.
 
  | astrange wrote:
  | Is the a7s not fast enough for you?
  | 
  | Shooting indoors is unfixable because there isn't full spectrum
  | light; you'll have to make up some of the missing colors
  | eventually.
 
  | excite1997 wrote:
  | What do you mean? The current crop of high-end cameras is
  | absolutely amazing in that respect. Take Canon R5, where usable
  | ISO settings extend at least to 32,000 (and the upper limit is
  | 102,400).
 
  | adrr wrote:
  | You need lower pixel counts on the sensor for better ISO
  | performance. Larger the sensor pixels, more light they get.
  | Sony A7S have low pixel sensors and have performance better
  | than a human eye. Night time shots with a full moon look like
  | it's a day time shot.
 
| [deleted]
 
| uniqueuid wrote:
| I could not agree more, and the reason is an empirical one:
| 
| Looking back over the past 10 years, the best and most photos
| that I've taken were with a simple ~$300 Sigma 50mm f 1.4. I do
| have Canon L glass, but the bokeh and low-light speed just
| dominate most other considerations.
| 
| There's also one super important benefit/limitation that I love:
| With a prime lens, you zoom with your feet. That's not actually
| bad, you just need to get in people's faces to have them close
| up. And that in and of itself (often) yields great shots.
 
| hengheng wrote:
| I've outgrown it, personally. For that "natural" perspective,
| 35mm is still wide enough to shoot a scene "the way you see it",
| but it can still be surprisingly intimate. And for the "portrait"
| thing, anything 70-100mm is a sweet spot. 50mm is trying to split
| the difference between both scenarios but doesn't really achieve
| either. So personally, I'm more likely to carry a 35+85 duo. Or
| in fact, a 50mm f/1.8 on an APS-C crop camera along with my
| smartphone. Or, a smartphone with a portrait lens. I just zoom in
| from the default 24mm a lot of times, that's it.
| 
| From a tech point of view, 50mm is the easiest lens to build.
| That's why they used to be on everything. Not because they're
| useful. A symmetric double gauss setup with six lenses is kinda
| straightforward and it works okay, it even becomes excellent once
| stopped down. Sharp 35mm lenses that are also fast can only be
| built with aspherical lenses, so traditionally it wasn't really
| possible to build fast ones that are also good. Recent ones are
| excellent, but as always, many photographers refuse to go with
| the times, and they'll repeat decade old advice.
| 
| (TL;DR: Smartphones do a lot of things right, and their evolution
| was backed by data. They first went from 28mm to 24mm, added 16mm
| second, then added 75mm third, and only then did they add 48mm as
| a 2x zoom into the 24mm camera. It's neat, but not essential.)
 
  | adrr wrote:
  | 50mm is my least used lens. I don't even bother carrying it on
  | trips. Like you said portrait is 70mm or higher. Landscape I
  | use 24mm.
  | 
  | 24 to 70 2.8 is the best lens because it can do landscapes and
  | portraits. I may carry a fast prime lens if I am shooting
  | indoors.
 
| mav88 wrote:
| I have the 50mm 1.4 from Canon and it's gorgeous. I also have a
| 50mm Summicron on my old Leica IIIf and it could have been made
| yesterday.
 
| aaronbrethorst wrote:
| If you have an SLR or mirrorless camera, don't yet own any prime
| lenses (a lens that doesn't zoom), and you want your photographs
| to get a _lot_ better very quickly, go buy the 50mm f /1.8 lens
| your camera manufacturer makes and only use that for a couple
| months.
 
  | dieortin wrote:
  | I'm curious, why is this?
 
    | ISL wrote:
    | Aside from the clarity that a prime brings to your
    | composition, the optics in a 50mm f/1.8 are frequently much
    | better than what you'll find from a kit-lens zoom.
    | 
    | A Canon 50mm f/1.8 at f/8 as as sharp as anything you'll ever
    | use -- outperforming many professional lenses.
    | 
    | In the long run, though, a prime helps you to understand what
    | goes into composing a great image. It takes time to learn a
    | focal length and learn which focal lengths resonate with you.
    | 
    | I have recently dabbled with a standard zoom for the first
    | time in ages -- to me, it is now a collection of f/4 prime
    | lenses that are accessible with the turn of a dial, each of
    | whom have their own perspective, character, habits, and
    | temperament. As I work to compose an image with it, I now
    | decide, before I bring the camera to my eye, which focal
    | length I _want_ and select it. If the composition is off,
    | then I _move_ to bring the image together. Without extensive
    | experience with primes, I 'd never have understood the power
    | of the changes in perspective that even small changes in
    | focal-length can bring. (See a sibling comment of mine on
    | this post waxing poetic about the differences between 50mm,
    | 40mm, and 35mm.)
    | 
    | (you can, of course, get the same experience at lower cost
    | with discipline and duct-tape holding a zoom at fixed focal
    | lengths for days at a time, but most people don't succeed
    | with that approach)
 
    | _qua wrote:
    | In my limited photography experience, a prime lens forces you
    | to move and work more to get a pleasing composition which
    | teaches your eye better than twisting a zoom lens.
 
      | sanitycheck wrote:
      | I think so too. You have to think more to get good shots,
      | and although you lose zoom you get to use DoF as a creative
      | dimension.
 
  | astrange wrote:
  | Mirrorless cameras don't care what brand their lenses are and
  | 50mm is easy to manual focus. You can get an old Canon FD lens
  | anywhere.
 
    | The_Colonel wrote:
    | > 50mm is easy to manual focus
    | 
    | It's not. Especially at f/1.4.
 
      | jetrink wrote:
      | Have you ever used a manual focus lens on a mirrorless
      | camera with focus-peaking[1] on? It's so easy to focus, it
      | feels like cheating. It makes a 50mm usable wide open.
      | (This is assuming your subject is relatively static or at
      | least cooperative. Small children and animals really
      | benefit from autofocus or a smaller aperture.)
      | 
      | 1. For those unfamiliar with the term, focus peaking is a
      | feature of most mirrorless cameras that highlights areas of
      | the image that are in focus, usually in bright red. It
      | makes it very intuitive to adjust the focus precisely, so
      | much so that you soon find yourself subconsciously making
      | fine adjustments by leaning slightly forward or back,
      | rather than manipulating the lens.
 
        | The_Colonel wrote:
        | Yes, I used many manual lenses on my Fuji XT-10 and XT-2
        | - 12mm f/2, 35mm f/1.2, 56mm f/1.4 (all crop of course)
        | among others. The only one I would say was easy was the
        | 12mm (for obvious reasons).
        | 
        | > This is assuming your subject is relatively static or
        | at least cooperative.
        | 
        | Well, there you go, that's a pretty important caveat. It
        | makes e.g. candid photography pretty challenging.
 
        | aaronbrethorst wrote:
        | Agreed. From my perspective, someone who would benefit
        | from my advice doesn't need the added challenge of
        | dealing with manual focusing in addition to properly
        | composing their frame.
        | 
        | I see it as being similar to an innovation token in
        | software development. Choose to learn one new thing at a
        | time, not two or three.
        | 
        | https://mcfunley.com/choose-boring-technology
        | 
        | Once you're comfortable with a 50mm with autofocus, go
        | nuts! Turn off AF on your lens or body. Practice with
        | manual focusing.
        | 
        | Buy an old Canon FD lens and see how delightful these
        | vintages lenses are on a modern body! Then, attach it to
        | a Canon AE-1 and learn how to shoot black and white film!
        | 
        | Lots to learn; just don't bite off too much at one time.
 
        | trap_goes_hot wrote:
        | Sure, but using auto-focus is even easier. I can achieve
        | focus in under a second. And with subject detection +
        | eye-AF, there really is no comparison.
        | 
        | In my opinion, focus peaking is somewhat useful for
        | video, macro and astro. I say somewhat because it depends
        | on the implementation. Some implementations (e.g. Sony)
        | also apply in-camera picture settings (which adds
        | sharpening to the output of the JPEG engine - which feeds
        | the EVF), which can give you a false sense of sharp-
        | focus. You'll see a ton of red, when actually the red is
        | coming from the JPEG sharpening, not the change in focus.
 
        | cat_plus_plus wrote:
        | Auto focus _on something_ can be easier, however at this
        | point you may not have enough focus points to hit the
        | right thing, or the best shot can be a compromise focus
        | between several things which is easier to achieve through
        | analog interface.
 
        | trap_goes_hot wrote:
        | Its not an analog interface. On the lens hardware side
        | most lenses today focus by wire, and the EVF is digital,
        | the focus peaking overlay is an edge + contrast-detection
        | filter (which is imperfect due to JPEG sharpness
        | misleading the engine to show an area as high focus when
        | it isn't). Also the in the hardware/optical realm, the
        | plane of focus is never flat in three dimensions, there
        | is always a curvature to it (and this curvature changes
        | based on the focusing distance).
        | 
        | Can you put forth an example of a real world situation
        | that we can discuss?
 
| Nav_Panel wrote:
| 50mm was pretty much the only lens I used for ages when I was
| shooting film. I had an old Pentax KX SLR (like the K1000 but
| with a few more bells & whistles), and a regular f/1.7 50mm
| manual focus lens -- and I loved it. Shot rolls and rolls of
| film.
| 
| I highly recommend shooting old-school like this, as practice.
| After a while, you stop needing to meter, even, because you
| understand the light conditions and can pre-emptively configure
| the camera to do exactly what you want. Then, focus and shoot.
| 
| The other thing shooting on film taught me is that one perfect
| photo is better than 100 bad ones. I find that digital
| photography natives tend to rely on burst features in an attempt
| to capture the right moment. But in my experience, especially
| with portraiture, waiting and then grabbing the precise moment
| can produce better results.
 
| regular wrote:
| It should be noted that if you're using an APS-C (or Super-35mm
| for motion pictures) sensor, the 35mm is your "normal" lens.
 
| sizzzzlerz wrote:
| I've been using 3 'L'-series Canon zoom lenses to cover 16mm to
| 400mm and been very pleased with their performance as an amateur
| landscape/wildlife photographer having come to grips with their
| cost and weight. I recently bought an new, inexpensive 50mm/f1.8
| lens off E-bay and spent a day shooting flowers at a local
| municipal rose garden and had an absolute blast. When I loaded my
| images onto the computer and had my first real chance to review
| them, I was very impressed. They're tack sharp, great color
| balance, and absolutely no vignetting in the corners. It's a
| perfectly usable lens in the right circumstances and I'll find a
| place for it in my bag.
 
| 323 wrote:
| I have a highly regarded, but old 50/1.4. I also have a cheaper
| 50-300/3.5-4.
| 
| Big surprise - the 50-300 zoom looks MUCH better than the 50/1.4
| at 50 mm. I'm talking about the colors, they are just better and
| more natural (less aberrations probably). Of course, if you have
| enough light since it's slower.
| 
| I investigated this, and it turns out modern lenses have much
| better coatings and other optimizations.
| 
| Conclusion: lens age matters too, if it's an old design
| investigate.
 
  | sanitycheck wrote:
  | I completely believe you, at f8. I'm not sure I do if both are
  | at f3.5. And of course the zoom can't do f2.8, f2 & f1.4 which
  | are three good reasons to use the prime. (This is without
  | getting into "character", because it's so subjective.)
 
  | writeslowly wrote:
  | As someone who got into photography relatively recently, if
  | you've only used modern lenses, old (or extremely cheap) lenses
  | can be really interesting to use as well. My 1970s Olympus 50mm
  | f.14 or low budget Chinese f1.2 give me interesting colors and
  | lens flares that I've never seen with modern lens designs.
 
| rkuska wrote:
| My favourite portable cheap full frame lense is 40mm summicron
| (yeah cheap and summicron, weird right?)
| https://www.35mmc.com/02/04/2016/leica-40mm-summicron-review...
 
| jeffbee wrote:
| These are still useful on a micro four-thirds body, just not in
| the way you might expect. With a speed booster, you reverse most
| of the magnification and throw a huge amount of light on those
| small sensors. A Nikon 50mm AF-D on a .71x speed booster and an
| m43 body is a disturbingly fast setup at ~70mm equivalent field
| of view.
| 
| All that said, the state-of-the-art fast primes for the m43
| systems have left the classic 50/1.4 in the dust. The performance
| of the Olympus 25mm f/1.2 is utterly amazing. The only quibble
| with the lens is it's huge.
 
  | trap_goes_hot wrote:
  | Modern lenses will always benefit from modern materials, design
  | and manufacturing techniques. That said the benefits of M43 as
  | a format are shrinking with the advent of small compact FF
  | cameras. Your 25mm f/1.2 lens is equivalent (from a field-of-
  | view and depth-of-field standpoint) to a full-frame 50mm f/2.4
  | lens or thereabouts.
 
    | jeffbee wrote:
    | The size of the m43 kit was never the benefit, to me. The
    | first thing I did was add a grip because the Olympus body was
    | too small. Then I added another grip so I can hold it the
    | other way. Now it's as big as any 35mm I owned.
 
      | trap_goes_hot wrote:
      | Fair enough, but I'd wager most articles written about the
      | benefits of the M43 format do bring up the size and weight
      | savings compared to full frame systems.
      | 
      | To me, the smaller sensor in M43 does have a few unique
      | benefits over FF.
      | 
      | * faster readout (less rolling-shutter)
      | 
      | * less power-consumption and therefore less heat-generation
      | (longer record-time limits, more power for computational
      | photography)
      | 
      | * less inertial mass for the sensor & assembly (better
      | sensor-stabilization for hand-held video)
      | 
      | * higher wafer yield in manufacturing (hopefully lower cost
      | , if economies-of-scale allow for it)
 
    | _ph_ wrote:
    | You can get very compact 35mm bodies now, but lenses tended
    | to grow in recent years to cope with the growing pixel
    | counts. So overall a mFT kit will be significant smaller than
    | 35mm unless you talk about a Leica M :)
    | 
    | The Olympus 25/1.2 is a stunning lens, but certainly large
    | for a mFT lens. it is still slightly smaller than a Leica
    | 50/2 L-mount lens.
 
      | trap_goes_hot wrote:
      | Lens size and weight changes due to many aspects - number
      | of extra corrective/aspherical/low dispersion elements, the
      | _equivalent_ aperture, the number of focusing motors,
      | whether the lens has optical image stabilization, whether
      | it is weather sealed, whether it is made out of plastic or
      | metal, etc, etc.
      | 
      | Its not easy to just isolate for sensor size. But _in
      | general_, you can make small full-frame lenses which will
      | be equivalent to micro four thirds lenses. The problem is
      | that they won't sell. Today, few people want f/2.8, f/4,
      | f/5.6 primes for full-frame. Most people shooting full-
      | frame want F/1.2, F/1.8 or F/1.4 primes.
 
| _HMCB_ wrote:
| I very much agree with this article. As someone relatively new to
| photography (less than four years), prime lenses have allowed me
| better quality for less money with a wider variation of
| lenses/applications. 20mm for architecture and interiors; 50mm
| for street or environmental portraits; 85mm for beautiful rather
| close-up portraits; 105mm macro for product shots and mid-range
| portraits.
 
| leephillips wrote:
| This first appeared no later than 20071, and is replete with mild
| anachronisms. I personally find this kind of silent re-purposing
| of old articles offensive; it adds chaos to scholarship and seems
| at least somewhat dishonest.
| 
| 1https://sunbane.com/gary-voth-photography-the-forgotten-lens...
 
| noncoml wrote:
| I have a tons of cameras and lenses from Nikon, Sony, and Canon,
| but yet I find myself just picking up the x100f no matter what
| the occasion is.
 
| adrian_b wrote:
| > "The 50mm lens is called a "normal" or "standard" lens because
| the way it renders perspective closely matches that of the human
| eye."
| 
| This sentence is confusing and wrong.
| 
| A perspective that "closely matches that of the human eye" has
| nothing to do with the focal distance of a lens.
| 
| Such a perspective is obtained whenever you look at a photograph
| from such a distance so that you will see it under the same angle
| under which it has been seen by the photo camera.
| 
| For a normal 50 mm lens, that means that you must look at a 4:3
| photograph from a distance about twice the height of the
| photograph, e.g. from about 60 cm when looking at a photograph
| whose height is 30 cm and whose width is 40 cm.
| 
| The normal focal length of around 50 mm has been chosen after
| some experiments about which is the maximum vision angle under
| which a painting or photograph can be seen, when looking at the
| complete ensemble, and not at details, while being able to
| perceive correctly the perspective relationships inside the
| image. The conclusion was that the aspect ratio must be around
| 4:3 and the viewing distance about twice the image height.
| 
| So it is a distance that feels comfortable for humans when
| looking at the entire image. Being much farther away diminishes
| the perception of small details, while being much closer makes
| difficult the perception of the complete image simultaneously.
| 
| When a photograph is taken with a wide-angular lens, one would
| have to look at the image from a too small distance, to match the
| original perspective. When a photograph is taken with a long-
| focus lens, one would have to look at the photograph from too far
| away, to match the original perspective.
| 
| N.B. The correct viewing distance for the normal perspective is
| from about twice the height of the image. I have no idea who has
| originated the very widespread myth that the right distance is
| the diagonal of the image. A computation for either 4:3 or 3:2
| images would show that their diagonals are much less than 50 mm,
| when viewed from the corresponding angle of a normal lens (e.g.
| the diagonal of a 36 mm x 24 mm image is 43 mm). Moreover, 50 mm
| is at the lower limit of the normal focal lengths. Many normal
| camera lenses had slightly longer focal lengths, up to 54 mm, or
| even 56 mm, which were even farther from the diagonal lengths of
| the images.
 
| LegitShady wrote:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20020606074506/http://vothphoto....
| 
| Title should be updated with the original year of publication
| (2002)
 
| contingencies wrote:
| List of Canon 50mm lenses:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF_50mm_lens
| 
| The cheapest Canon 50mm, _EF50mm f /1.8 II_, is affectionately
| called "plastic fantastic" or "nifty fifty" and is super cheap.
 
| petargyurov wrote:
| This is good timing -- I am literally in the middle of
| researching lenses and film SLR cameras for a beginner -- I'm
| looking to get into film photography.
| 
| Anyone here have recommendations?
| 
| I am currently reading about the Olympus OM-1 and it all sounds
| great apart from the lack of exposure compensation (but that
| might just teach me the hard way).
 
  | wuyishan wrote:
  | Have a look at the Fujifilm X-S10 https://fujifilm-x.com/en-
  | sg/products/cameras/x-s10/
  | 
  | I like it a lot.
 
  | q-base wrote:
  | Get a Nikon FE! There are tons of cheap Nikon glass. It has
  | exposure compensation as you mention. It has a brilliant way of
  | turning of the light meter so it won't drain your battery, when
  | not in use and is just an overall pleasure to use. Some of my
  | best photographs has been captured on my Nikon FE.
  | 
  | https://www.35mmc.com/10/02/2022/appreciating-what-you-alrea...
 
    | copperx wrote:
    | I have a Nikon FE with a 50mm prime, it's great. Would you
    | mind sharing how do you process and scan you photos?
 
  | twic wrote:
  | I bought a Canon A-1 in order to (re)learn shooting with film.
  | I haven't used it intensively, but i have been happy with it.
  | It's a bit later than the OM-1, so has electronic metering,
  | including exposure compensation.
  | 
  | I was drawn towards a Canon by the abundant supply of second-
  | hand old lenses for it. Nikon's old lenses are still (somewhat)
  | compatible with their modern cameras, so they are more
  | expensive; other manufacturers' lenses are a little harder to
  | come by.
 
| throwaway290 wrote:
| It's not the only take on the subject, and I actually think it's
| quite mistaken.
| 
| 50mm is great for street portraits or fashion shots. This is
| where you 1) can't come too close to not spook the subject, 2)
| want tighter framing, 3) want to put your subject on a little bit
| of a pedestal so to speak, or 4) want to make a huge print out of
| your shot.
| 
| However, for candid "photos of your own loved ones" as in the
| article, I think you'll find it a pain. In these circumstances I
| can't recommend enough a wide lens instead. Try both and make
| your conclusions.
| 
| - On the surface a wide lens makes things look "farther away",
| but in fact what it does is emphasize the actual distances in the
| scene-- meaning with close-up shots it gives a strong sense of
| presence, which is presumably what you want. 50mm might be good
| for fashion portraits, but for shots like in TFA it's IMO way too
| long and puts unnecessary emotional distance between you and the
| subject (this was my first feeling when I looked at author's
| photos).
| 
| - The article sidesteps the fact that F-number is not the only
| factor in motion blur. 1/8 second with a 21mm lens is not great
| but it'd look loads better than 1/8 with a 50mm lens that would
| be very unforgiving as far as any shake.
| 
| - Framing and focusing is much less finicky. For casual snaps
| most of the time you don't even need to look at the screen: with
| close-ups it's self evident where the camera is facing, and if
| something is happening right now a little distance away just
| point your camera in the general direction and you'll most likely
| have it in frame. And if you have some time to frame for
| aesthetics, it's still easier because unlike a long lens with
| background separation a wide one wouldn't over-emphasize every
| object that happens to be near your subject.
| 
| Get a prime lens compact like Ricoh GR, it's too wide for street
| portraits but your loved ones will not object if you occasionally
| use it in close proximity.
 
  | klodolph wrote:
  | I cannot recommend a 35mm for close-up pictures of people. The
  | perspective is too weird. I have a 35mm lens, I used it a lot,
  | and it has its uses--and the main way I use it is to capture
  | more of the room or more people when I'm taking pictures
  | indoors. Going too close with it results in distorted pictures
  | which is fine as an artistic choice but it's not the choice
  | most people want to make.
  | 
  | The Ricoh GR III has a 28mm equivalent, which puts it well into
  | the "wide angle" category. You may like shooting with a 28mm
  | FOV, or you may absolutely hate it. If you want to buy a camera
  | like that, try it out first and see how you like it.
  | 
  | > Meanwhile 50mm is good for fashion,
  | 
  | It's really not. I would start at like 90mm equivalent for
  | fashion or general portraiture (i.e. not candids).
 
    | trap_goes_hot wrote:
    | >Going too close with it results in distorted pictures which
    | is fine as an artistic choice but it's not the choice most
    | people want to make.
    | 
    | Most people are used to seeing smartphone photos now, which
    | (until recently) only had a wider FOV. I think stylistically,
    | candid/general portrait photography is changing, and I think
    | environmental portraits are much more in vogue than tighter
    | framing with longer focal lengths. 24/28/35mm portraits seem
    | to be more popular than 85+mm.
    | 
    | Just my view, feel free to agree/disagree.
 
    | throwaway290 wrote:
    | Feel free to maintain your opinion, but I can't agree with
    | it.
    | 
    | > I cannot recommend a 35mm for close-up pictures of people.
    | 
    | Also a little too long. Emotional distance, framing
    | difficulty, yada yada. 28mm is probably the best bet for
    | casual candids with relatives for the reasons I listed.
    | 
    | > The perspective is too weird.
    | 
    | Who cares. If you fail to capture a memorable moment because
    | you were busy looking into the viewfinder focusing and
    | framing, you fail, period. Very hard to do with a wide lens.
    | 
    | Distortion is just not a problem for casual shots of loved
    | ones. It's not fashion or advertisement-- for the purposes of
    | capturing memory & feeling you may want to emphasise intimacy
    | and presence rather than perfection of proportions.
    | 
    | > It's really not. I would start at like 90mm equivalent for
    | fashion or general portraiture (i.e. not candids).
    | 
    | Hard disagree. Wow. A prime of 90mm poses way too many
    | constraints to work with. Unless we're talking professional
    | photography, at which point you might be OK investing loads
    | in a high-quality zoom/a spacious studio/lights/etc., there's
    | really no point in shelling out for a lens that long that
    | would be useless in most scenarios.
 
      | Finnucane wrote:
      | It used to be pretty common in ye olde dates for studio
      | photographers to use 85 or even 105mm lenses to get flatter
      | fields and a little distance from the subject.
 
        | throwaway290 wrote:
        | We aren't talking about studio or generally professional
        | photography are we... But yes, the longer the lens the
        | more emotional distance. A wide lens puts the viewer
        | right in the middle of the action.
 
        | klodolph wrote:
        | I've never heard someone talk about "emotional distance"
        | as being related to focal length and to be honest it
        | doesn't have the ring of truth.
        | 
        | Longer focal lengths don't even create physical distance.
        | What happens is that people sometimes choose to step
        | farther away when using a longer focal length, but you
        | don't have to do that.
 
        | throwaway290 wrote:
        | Common hobbyist wisdom is that you use a longer lens to
        | make the subject feel closer without coming closer. This
        | is subtly wrong. In the eye of the viewer the distance
        | eliminated through focal length is felt in a different
        | way. If you want a photo that takes you back to being
        | close to someone, _come close_ and use a wider lens.
 
      | klodolph wrote:
      | You're personally excited about wide-angle lenses and you
      | seem to be convinced that everyone else will feel the same
      | way about them, for candids of friends and family, and I
      | just don't think that's true. You say that longer lenses
      | create "emotional distance" but this is, to be honest, one
      | of the most horeshit photography opinions I've heard. The
      | lens doesn't create emotional _anything,_ it just changes
      | what you get in the frame.
      | 
      | I like the way the photos in the article look. They're not
      | _your_ style.
      | 
      | I've spent time with a lot of other hobby photographers and
      | there's always a few people with preferences like yours,
      | but it's never been a majority, and most photographers I've
      | met have the humility to recognize that their own personal
      | choices aren't automatically the right choices for others.
      | 
      | > Who cares. If you fail to capture a memorable moment
      | because you were busy looking into the viewfinder focusing
      | and framing, you fail, period. Very hard to do with a wide
      | lens.
      | 
      | Framing is not a problem that goes away if you use wide-
      | angle lens. You can shoot wide and crop later, but all
      | you're doing is changing _when_ you 're making the framing
      | decisions, and the crop-later approach has the disadvantage
      | that when you crop, it's too late to reframe. Framing is
      | not easier with wide-angle lenses versus normal lenses.
      | It's easier to get something in-frame, but harder to keep
      | something out.
      | 
      | There's no "default" lens which is right for everyone or
      | every circumstance.
      | 
      | I'm also not sure why it would take me longer to frame or
      | focus with a 50mm lens. For candids, I almost always use an
      | autofocus camera these days. It focuses at the touch of a
      | button.
      | 
      | > Wow. A prime of 90mm poses way too many constraints to
      | work with.
      | 
      | I've been using a 90mm equivalent for a long, long time.
      | It's my go-to lens for when a friend who's a makeup artist
      | or costume designer wants a good picture of their work, or
      | when somebody wants a simple portrait, and I think it's
      | easy to work with.
      | 
      | Maybe I just got used to working within those constraints.
      | And maybe... just maybe... you got used to working with the
      | constraints of a 35mm lens, and you've forgotten what it
      | felt like when you were first dealing with those
      | constraints.
      | 
      | I've done a lot of personal with 35mm, 50mm, and 90mm
      | equivalent primes. There's a reason why people who get a
      | set of three prime lenses most often get three lenses in
      | this range or something similar--like 28mm, 45mm, 110mm.
      | 
      | It's easy to fall in love with the look of a wide-angle
      | lens and then get disillusioned with it. You find that
      | you're including too much stuff in-frame that you don't
      | want, or you find that you're shooting too close to people
      | and they look distorted. That's why I recommend that people
      | spend some time with a wide-angle lens before deciding if
      | they want to purchase a camera with a fixed wide-angle
      | lens, like the Ricoh GR III. The Ricoh GR III is like $900
      | and forces you to use a 28mm perspective or crop in post--
      | not everyone is going to like that.
 
        | throwaway290 wrote:
        | Well, more than anything I wanted to present an
        | alternative viewpoint. The author presented his as if
        | it's the only way.
        | 
        | I arrived at my understanding after years of learning
        | about photography and experience of doing it not
        | professionally, taking tends of thousands of photos of
        | all sorts of subjects. I think the point about emotional
        | distance is under-appreciated.
        | 
        | Of course, this author (and I don't know why) clearly
        | _wanted_ to create the distance--you can see it by
        | frequent use of monochrome /sepia coloring that mimics
        | the nostalgic look of old photos. However, this was left
        | unsaid, and someone may miss this factor when choosing
        | the lens based on this article.
        | 
        | > Framing is not a problem that goes away if you use
        | wide-angle lens. ... It's easier to get something in-
        | frame, but harder to keep something out.
        | 
        | The core task is different IMO. When you are enjoying
        | family time, especially with children, it's more
        | important to 1) get something in frame in any way
        | possible _fast_ while 2) still being in the moment
        | yourself than with other types of photography. If you are
        | shooting children as models that 's different, sure.
        | 
        | > I'm also not sure why it would take me longer to frame
        | or focus with a 50mm lens. For candids, I almost always
        | use an autofocus camera these days. It focuses at the
        | touch of a button.
        | 
        | If you haven't tried wide-all-the-time, try. I shot a lot
        | wide (20-28mm), 40-50mm and 75mm. With wider lenses I
        | often shot from the hip with subsecond time between the
        | moment and the shot, and got interesting dynamic frames
        | (and I rarely crop). It just doesn't happen already at
        | ~40mm, even if I spam shoot, I need to see the frame.
        | 
        | As to focus, you don't even _need_ to focus many ~25mm
        | lenses if you shoot with moderately closed aperture (just
        | leave it around 5m~infinity). A longer lens makes it much
        | easier for subject to be off, I have to make sure focus
        | is right and a compact camera 's autofocus is rarely
        | reliable enough in low light to capture action. Remember
        | that this is candid family shots, there's no proper
        | lighting.
        | 
        | And 75mm, while great for street portraits or casual
        | fashion, is additionally unusable as a main driver for
        | candid family shots since in a random room you often
        | can't back far enough away to capture enough of the
        | action. In the circumstances described it's easier to
        | come closer rather than opposite.
        | 
        | I thought 40-50mm would be a nice middle ground, but it
        | doesn't give the really pronounced separation, bokeh and
        | aesthetics of longer lenses like 75mm yet it does make
        | things more challenging in all regards for no good (to
        | me) reason. I find it OK for street shots but now I am
        | more informed about its limitations in other scenarios.
 
| Lio wrote:
| I've had a couple of Fujifilm X100 cameras with their fixed prime
| lenses over the last few years. For me I've grown to love the
| 35mm eqv. focal length they provide.
| 
| I have 50mm and 28mm eqv. converters for it but hardly ever use
| them.
| 
| Recently I've really got into shooting landscapes with it, which
| is daft as no one shoots landscapes at 35mm. It would generally
| be regarded as not quite wide enough or not quite long enough.
| Still I think that's part of the appeal for me.
| 
| Limiting yourself to just one fixed prime is, in a way, very
| liberating. It's one less thing to think about and it forces you
| to walk about to get the framing you want.
| 
| Having said that if I was taking money to shoot someone's wedding
| again I would definitely break out my old Nikon DSLRs and a pair
| of zoom lens.
 
  | isatty wrote:
  | I use A Fuji body as well (xe3) and also find the 35mm f/2 my
  | go to lens (52mm FF equivalent). Fujinon glass is excellent so
  | if you want to walk around on a vacation instead of a wedding
  | I'd definitely just grab the 18-55 zoom instead.
 
    | oktwtf wrote:
    | Agree 100%. I shoot on an xt3 and cannot believe the
    | consistent sharp and clear images through the Fuji glass.
    | Also the kit lens is fantastic, only thing I'd love is if it
    | could reach a bit farther. I'm sure there is an upgrade out
    | there for and arm and a leg...
    | 
    | I have some old glass for my Pentax SP1000 which I was able
    | to adapt to shoot on the new mirrorless. Some of the bookeh
    | really is magical on those Super Takumar lenses. The crop is
    | a bit of a mess, but photos are nice.
 
  | pixelfarmer wrote:
  | Over time I ended up with 21, 35, and 90mm as my go-to lenses.
  | I used the 35 for many years now, which includes landscape
  | pictures. With that said, I also use 90mm for that, because
  | landscape pretty much covers the whole focal length spectrum,
  | not just wide angle. 50mm is only stuffed into the bag for when
  | I don't have to optimize for weight and it makes sense to have
  | it around (portraits in tighter spaces).
  | 
  | In return, 50mm is usually cheaper than even 35mm options. On
  | APS-C cameras this ends up being 75..80mm, which is already in
  | the realm of portrait lenses, i.e. somewhat more restricted in
  | its use than on FF bodies.
 
  | The_Colonel wrote:
  | I owned the original X100 and used it for several years as my
  | only camera. I tried to like it, embrace the "liberation" etc.
  | But it did not work out and it got me to dislike the 35mm focal
  | length.
  | 
  | 35mm is kind of good as a universal focal length - wide enough
  | for most needs and tele enough for basic "environmental"
  | portraiture. But it's also "boring" in the sense that it can do
  | most things, but does not really excel at anything. I noticed
  | that I use it more and more as a point and shoot and my
  | photography stagnated.
  | 
  | Then I got into another "need more lenses" phase settling again
  | for mostly (though not exclusively) a single lens - but this
  | time 53mm (= fuji xf 35mm). I feel more creatively alive - the
  | lens is more fun in the sense that it excels more, but also
  | requires more thought into it.
  | 
  | YMMV.
 
| CydeWeys wrote:
| A few caveats to this.
| 
| One, the recommended 50mm focal length lens here is specific to
| full-frame cameras with 35mm sensors. If you have an APS-C
| camera, which is quite common, then you want a ~32mm lens, and if
| you use M4/3 like I do, then you want a 25mm lens, to achieve
| this same effect.
| 
| Of course it's a lot simpler to abstract away the camera sensor
| size and simply look at field of view, which for a 50mm full-
| frame lens is about 40 degrees. This is actually not that much;
| it's quite "zoomed-in" in appearance compared to everything you
| can see at once through your eyes, which is at least 90 degrees
| field of view plus more for your peripheral vision. So the
| following quote from the article is definitely inaccurate:
| 
| > The 50mm lens is called a "normal" or "standard" lens because
| the way it renders perspective closely matches that of the human
| eye.
| 
| To really match the experience of being there, you need an
| ultrawide lens to capture the full human field of view. The 40
| degree field of view of a nifty fifty is like looking through a
| narrow doggy cone of shame.
 
  | SpaceInvader wrote:
  | > If you have an APS-C camera, which is quite common, then you
  | want a ~32mm lens, and if you use M4/3 like I do, then you want
  | a 25mm lens, to achieve this same effect.
  | 
  | It's not the same effect, far from it. It's different focal
  | length, that will render different image.
 
    | avalys wrote:
    | A 50 mm lens on a full-frame sensor will render an equivalent
    | perspective to a 32 mm lens on an APS-C sensor.
    | 
    | You can easily verify this by taking an 24-70 zoom lens on a
    | full-frame sensor, taking one image at 50 mm in full-frame
    | mode and another image at 32 mm in APS-C mode.
    | 
    | Depth of field and other optical properties may be different
    | but the perspective will be the same.
    | 
    | The only thing that changes the rendering perspective is the
    | physical location of the camera. If the camera does not move
    | and you take a picture with the same field of view, the
    | perspective will be identical regardless of the sensor size
    | and focal length you used to achieve this.
    | 
    | The reason different focal lengths are imagined to produce
    | different perspectives is because, implicitly, you need to
    | stand a different distance from the subject to frame the same
    | image at different focal lengths, and it's this difference in
    | camera position that causes the change in perspective.
 
    | wilsonjholmes wrote:
    | Would you mind explaining or offering resources on
    | understanding why it is different? I have a M43 camera as
    | well, and I have always just halved the focal length and
    | aperature I want a lens to be on my system to be a roughly
    | equivalent match to the full frame performance I am trying to
    | emulate.
 
  | avalys wrote:
  | > To really match the experience of being there, you need an
  | ultrawide lens to capture the full human field of view. The 40
  | degree field of view of a nifty fifty is like looking through a
  | narrow doggy cone of shame.
  | 
  | This entirely depends on the size and perspective from which
  | your photos are viewed. If you're taking photos that will be
  | printed in 8 foot posters to be hung on a wall and viewed
  | standing right in front of them - yes, a wide-angle lens with
  | 90-degree or higher FOV will resemble the perspective you see
  | through your eye.
  | 
  | However, most people view photographs at smaller scale - on
  | their computer screen, their phone, (long ago) in index-card-
  | sized prints, or in medium-sized prints they hang on their wall
  | in a frame and view from some distance.
  | 
  | If you're looking at a photo on your phone - that kind of is a
  | narrow doggy cone of shame, and a photo taken with a 50 mm lens
  | and displayed on your phone will still resemble the same
  | perspective you'd see viewing that scene with your eye.
 
| ISL wrote:
| If pointing someone to a single "normal" lens as a prime, I'd
| point them to a 40mm, not a 50.
| 
| When I work with a 50 (which I very much enjoy; used one
| yesterday), I find that it is tighter in composition than my
| normal field of view. The 40 much-better matches my own
| perception and experience. The 50 is a more-careful tool.
| 
| 35 is a little wide for me (but perfect for human/photojournalism
| work). If you want to try out a 40, there are great pancake
| lenses out there at relatively low cost. The Canon 40mm STM
| (recently discontinued) and Fuji 27mm are the smallest lenses
| made by their manufacturers -- cheap, sharp, fast, flexible.
| 
| Edit to add: For the specific case of environmental portraiture
| of kids, I'd probably trend toward a 35 and perhaps even a 28
| (the focal length-equivalent on the Google Pixel 3a and 4a and
| the Q/Q2). The perspective with which we perceive the experience
| of being a kid is a close and intimate one.
 
  | SECProto wrote:
  | > If pointing someone to a single "normal" lens as a prime, I'd
  | point them to a 40mm, not a 50.
  | 
  | The article does have a section on exactly the issue (FOV) you
  | note - it identifies that the 50mm lens is not the same with
  | modern cameras (which have smaller sensors than 35mm film
  | cameras), and recommends a 35mm lens for these cameras.
  | Personally, I have a 35mm prime lens and quite like it, and I
  | think it did help me improve my skills when I can't just zoom
  | to get what I want in frame.
 
    | coldtea wrote:
    | > _it identifies that the 50mm lens is not the same with
    | modern cameras (which have smaller sensors than 35mm film
    | cameras), and recommends a 35mm lens for these cameras_
    | 
    | That's a different thing, which is about the "crop factor".
    | 
    | Modern APS-C digital cameras have smaller sesnors, with a 1.5
    | crop factor and will need a 35mm lens to get 50mm angle of
    | view. This is not needed for modern full-frame digital
    | cameras, which can use a 50mm to get 50mm angle of view just
    | like old film cameras.
    | 
    | The article in that section just tells people to get a 35mm
    | for modern (APS-C crop factor) cameras, because that's what
    | gives the 50mm effective angle of view on those.
    | 
    | This issue is orthogonal to the parent's suggestion for 40mm.
    | 
    | To put it in different terms, the article in that section is
    | concerned with "what lens you need on a modern crop factor
    | camera to get 50mm effective angle of view - hence the
    | suggestion for a 35mm physical lens).
    | 
    | Whereas the parent is concened with the actual effective
    | angle of view you get, and suggests 40mm effective angle of
    | view is better than 40mm effective angle of view.
    | 
    | To get such 40mm effective a.o.v, you need a 40mm lens on a
    | film camera or a full-frame digital, and a 27mm lens on a
    | APS-C digital (the kind of cameras the article has in mind
    | when it says that "modern cameras have smaller lensors).
 
      | SECProto wrote:
      | I think the difference between your comment and mine is I
      | assumed the parent commenter is complaining about 50mm FOV
      | being too tight on a APS-C sensor, and you've assumed
      | they're complaining that 50mm is too tight on a full frame
      | sensor. Either could be right.
      | 
      | But I think we've all gotten a little lost in the weeds, as
      | the original article was recommending it not specifically
      | because of focal length, but also because of lens speed
      | compared to the 18-80mm zoom lenses now common on DSLRs.
 
    | dheera wrote:
    | Also worth noting that with mirrorless cameras, large-
    | aperture 35mm full frame lenses can be made much more compact
    | than their SLR counterparts, which need retrofocusing design.
    | 
    | On a mirrorless full-frame camera a 35/1.2 or 35/1.4 makes a
    | fantastic, portable, all-around landscape and environmental
    | portrait lens. Not so true for a 35/1.4 DSLR lens.
 
    | exmadscientist wrote:
    | There are two issues here. One is just the usual crop factor
    | stuff. Photographers seem to have real problems dealing with
    | this (probably thanks to the original sin of some marketer
    | somewhere), but they have always and will always suffer from
    | that. If you quote focal lengths in "mmeq" (35mm film frame
    | equivalent focal length) then this problem goes into the
    | background and stays there, out of focus, until the next
    | thread of people talking past each other on a photography
    | forum.
    | 
    | The second issue is that the normal lens focal length for a
    | 35mm film frame, by the most common definition, is actually
    | 43mm. There are, of course, other definitions.
    | https://medium.com/ice-cream-geometry/what-is-a-normal-
    | lens-... seems like a good discussion but I admit to having
    | just skimmed it. So neither 35mm nor 50mm is particularly
    | great. My X100V has a 35mmeq prime lens and I often find
    | myself wishing it was a little narrower. (Though of course I
    | might be saying the opposite if it were actually 50mmeq....)
 
      | ISL wrote:
      | If Fuji ever makes an X100 with a 50mm-equivalent lens
      | (probably a 35mm f/2), they'll sell a boatload. Quite a few
      | of them will sit on a shelf, though, compared with the
      | 35mm-equivalent X100s of today. You can always crop in, but
      | you can't crop out.
      | 
      | If Fuji did make a 50mm X100, though, I'd be on the list.
      | Ricoh made a great choice by bringing the GR IIIx to
      | market. If I ever jump on the GR train, it'll likely be
      | with that 40mm-equivalent model. Less versatile, but the
      | images that do hit will resonate with me more.
 
        | coldtea wrote:
        | > _If Fuji ever makes an X100 with a 50mm-equivalent lens
        | (probably a 35mm f /2), they'll sell a boatload._
        | 
        | Why would they? 35mm is much more versatile and better
        | for family, travel, and street photography, which is what
        | those cameras are used for.
 
        | m348e912 wrote:
        | I've spent some time with a full frame Canon SLR with a
        | few different fixed focal length lenses. (35,50,&85mm).
        | My favorite lens is the Zeiss Distagon 35mm/1.4 even
        | though it doesn't have autofocus. That being said, I have
        | moved to the Fujifilm x100v and I'm happy with the
        | results.
 
        | nop_slide wrote:
        | They're already having trouble cranking out enough X100V
        | models
 
  | basicplus2 wrote:
  | "Human normal" is actually 47.5mm
 
  | js2 wrote:
  | I used to really like shooting with an 85mm. Oh look, Adobe has
  | an article on it:
  | 
  | https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/photography/hub/guides/t...
 
| azhenley wrote:
| My favorite normal lens is a Helios 44m-2 58mm f2. It is an old
| Russian knock off that produces a swirly background and glow
| effect. I bought two on eBay 8 years ago for maybe $30 each and
| connect it to my mirrorless body with a $9 adapter.
 
| graycat wrote:
| I have a sack full of just gorgeous Nikon lenses and camera
| 'backs'. But the backs are all _single lens reflex_ for 35 mm
| film. I have nothing that uses CCDs (charge coupled devices,
| solid state, electronic photon captures).
| 
| But the lenses are just gorgeous.
| 
| Is there any way I can get a modern camera _back_ , electronic,
| with a CCD or some such photon capture means, etc. that will let
| me exploit my old lenses, including, right, a just gorgeous 50 mm
| lens, a 108 mm, a 200 mm, etc.? So, the modern camera back need
| not have a mirror and, instead, show in the view finder what it
| sees via its CCD sensors.
 
| coldtea wrote:
| I think 35mm is even better, as it's more versatile in both wide
| and close scenarios (and 40mm is closer to actual human angle of
| view than 50mm).
 
| Wistar wrote:
| My go to 50 is an odd, but extremely (razor) sharp, Canon 50mm
| f/2.5 compact macro. Sadly, it is no longer made. AF is slow and
| loud and prone to repeatedly hunting and missing focus but the
| images it makes, particularly portraits, are really good. On
| full-frame, it does have some loss of sharpness at the edges but
| on a 1.6 crop sensor camera it is simply great.
 
| combatentropy wrote:
| This article was actually published more than 20 years ago,
| https://web.archive.org/web/20020603153119/http://vothphoto....
| 
| Some of its advice is timeless, but its context is back when your
| phone did not take great pictures. Instead, most people carried
| around no camera at all, and events went undocumented. Then,
| among people who decided they wanted to take pictures of wherever
| they were going, they bought point-and-shoots, which did not let
| you change the lens. Then, for those wanted to get serious, there
| were entry-level DSLRs, which often were sold with a bag and a
| kit lens, and for the vast majority of these owners, the thought
| of buying another lens seldom crossed their minds.
| 
| In short, this article is meant to expose the problem to people
| who did not even know they had a problem, and to offer a solution
| that was last thing they would have guessed.
| 
| (I don't think the author meant to mislead us about the original
| date of publication. It looks like he recently moved everything
| to Wordpress and may not be savvy enough to fix the date.)
 
  | hellisothers wrote:
  | Arguably your phone still doesn't take great pictures in the
  | situation the author is describing: indoors, medium to low
  | light. In this situation the advice is still timeless, a camera
  | with a 50mm ~f1.4 can create a truly great photo (skills
  | outstanding), while the best phone will still produce a "good"
  | photo.
 
    | yakubin wrote:
    | I have an iPhone 13 Mini and in those conditions it will
    | never take even a good photo. To make anything even half-
    | decent excellent light is needed. When I look online at those
    | articles-ads about phones being great at photography now they
    | use a combination of great light and a boatload of RAW
    | editing.
    | 
    | Plus you need to mind that it's the standard problem of
    | people saying they don't hear the fans of their computer,
    | don't see the tearing in X, and finally don't see the loads
    | of noise and loss of sharpness in phone photos. Discussing
    | those things is basically futile.
    | 
    | As a side note, a touch screen is never going to be able to
    | compete with the comfort of physical buttons on my DSLR.
 
    | sunsunsunsun wrote:
    | The biggest difference is that most phone cameras are still
    | far too wide, they are just terrible for portraits. A few
    | cameras have 50mm equivalent zoom lenses but most seems to go
    | wide+ultrawide.
 
| cat_plus_plus wrote:
| > As your spouse proudly holds the baby up you raise the camera
| to your eye.
| 
| How did you just happen to have the camera with the right lense
| right at the moment? For truly spur of the moment, have to use
| whatever you have at hand and not worry about tech, usually a
| cell phone.
| 
| > The viewfinder seems a little dim in the room light
| 
| On the other hand if you have a little more time, just click live
| button and tap viewscreen to focus (or get a camera with
| electronic viewfinder that brightens things up for you, though
| good ones are expensive). In time sensitive situations, larger F
| stop is your friend because your main subject is likely to be
| reasonably focused. Might get noise from high ISO, but these days
| noise removal / shadow brightening is pretty powerful in post-
| processing providing you shoot RAW.
| 
| > There is a difference of approximately 3.5 stops between f/1.8,
| the typical maximum aperture for an entry-level 50mm lens, and
| f/5.6, the typical maximum aperture at the portrait end of a
| "consumer" zoom. This is a huge difference in practice.
| 
| I love a couple of old manual lenses I have, but these require
| careful scene planning to ensure focus is on the correct thing
| and background is far away to be properly blurred, the opposite
| of "kid is smiling" situation in the article. For those, I keep
| 18-135 lens on by default so I can shoot a large group of friends
| from short distance or a bird on the tree at short notice.
 
  | hef19898 wrote:
  | A 50 mm is one of my special occasion lenses, the others being
  | a 80-200 and a 300, the latter often combined with a TC. The 50
  | is great for low light, for street photography and small enough
  | to carry with you. Street ohotography because you stand out
  | much less with a DSLR without battery grip and a lens as small
  | as a 50 mm. Low light, because of f1.8.
  | 
  | The one lense that is on most of the time, especially when
  | travelling, is a 24-120.
  | 
  | I still would recommend a 50mm, simply for its convenience, low
  | light performance, small size, incredible sharpness, speedy AF
  | and beautiful image characteristics from backgrounds to sun
  | stars.
 
    | cat_plus_plus wrote:
    | Sure, I can live with a 24mm (38.4mm translated from crop
    | sensor) if I know for sure I am going to be indoors or in
    | close quarters / shooting large objects. But distance quickly
    | becomes an issue, not always possible to access interesting
    | areas or walk there in time. So for unknown situations helps
    | to have a decent zoom range, even at the expense of having to
    | shoot with higher ISO.
 
| solardev wrote:
| These aren't dead! You can still find a variety of fast 50mm
| lenses, from a cheap f/1.8 for like $150 (which is still way
| better than most kit lenses) to a very nice f/1.4 upgrade at like
| $400 all the way to absurdly expensive ones.
| 
| https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/comparisons/premium-50mm-le...
| 
| Their primary advantages:
| 
| * Amazing "bokeh" -- the quality and look of the background blur
| that modern phones mostly try to emulate using computational
| photography and maybe lidar depth sensing; but the blur effect is
| simulated in software vs being an actual artifact of the lens
| construction and aperture
| 
| * Incredibly fast, good for dimly-lit conditions or action
| photography
| 
| * Fine-grained control over depth of field makes the subject
| stand out beautifully
| 
| * Teaches you to move your body and camera around to find the
| perfect framing, instead of standing still in one place and using
| the zoom. This can often make for more interesting compositions
| and angles.
| 
| * Usually much lighter, especially if you go with an APS-C sized
| sensor in a mirrorless
| 
| Negatives:
| 
| * No zoom means you have to be able to get close to the subject.
| Hard to do with wildlife, some sports, etc.
| 
| * One more lens to carry around
| 
| --------------
| 
| The 50mm is so much fun to shoot. Get one!
 
  | vwoolf wrote:
  | I have a Sigma 30mm 1.4 in Fuji X-Mount
  | (https://www.sigmaphoto.com/30mm-f1-4-dc-dn-c), which is ~45mm
  | full-frame equivalent (FFE), and it's one of the most cost-
  | effective lenses in existence, given its quality relative to
  | its price.
  | 
  | The downside around the "perfect framing" is that focal length
  | will change perspective:
  | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photog...
  | (take a head a shoulders portrait of yourself with a 20mm and
  | then 85mm lens to see). Almost all professional photographers
  | who need to get the shot have moved to zooms for good reason.
 
    | rhn_mk1 wrote:
    | Focal length doesn't do anything to perspective. Perspective
    | is dependent on the location (distance) relative to subject.
    | 
    | Different focal lengths will make you want to change your
    | position, to get the entire subject in frame, or, conversely,
    | to get more details. Then you will change your perspective.
 
      | coldtea wrote:
      | > _Focal length doesn 't do anything to perspective.
      | Perspective is dependent on the location (distance)
      | relative to subject._
      | 
      | That's a pedantic way to put it, in the sense that someone
      | says "it's not the fall that hurts you, it's hitting the
      | ground". Sure, but not very usefull. It's the same if you
      | add the extra parameter of "changing the position" into the
      | matter of focal lens vs perspective.
      | 
      | Another way to see it is that if you stand in the same
      | place and point to the same thing, a larger focal length
      | will do compress the perspective more.
 
    | macintux wrote:
    | > Almost all professional photographers who need to get the
    | shot have moved to zooms for good reason.
    | 
    | Nitpick: I imagine you mean telephotos, not zooms.
 
  | uniqueuid wrote:
  | Absolutely agree, but have to add a small nitpick:
  | 
  | 50mm primes _used_ to be lightweight. The trend is towards
  | Sigma Art  / Zeiss Milvus/Otus dimensions, and that means much
  | better edge sharpness but ~1kg in weight.
 
    | perardi wrote:
    | Let me second that.
    | 
    | Besides perhaps the Canon 50mm f/1.8, 50mm lens are _big_
    | now. Like a grapefruit on the front of your camera, to the
    | extent it kinda obviates the size reduction in mirrorless
    | bodies--slimmer body, and a giant lens.
    | 
    | There are reasons for that. If you're buying an
    | interchangeable lens camera, you are probably after image
    | quality, and the new generation of lenses are phenomenal. I
    | am not sure if you'd call this Nikon _cheap_ , but it blows
    | away all their previous offerings.
    | (https://www.zsystemuser.com/z-mount-lenses/nikkor-
    | lenses/nik...)
 
    | avalys wrote:
    | You can still buy cheap and light ones, no?
 
    | _ph_ wrote:
    | The Leica M 50/1.4 is still around 300g and a _great_ lens.
    | 
    | But indeed, as the sensor resolution of 35mm cameras exceeds
    | many classic medium format cameras, the best lenses have
    | grown accordingly to serve that resolution. To me, the Leica
    | M system stayed mostly true to the 35mm cameras of the film
    | age. The other alternative in my eyes is mFT which offers
    | great "digital" lenses in the size of small classic 35mm
    | lenses.
 
    | _aavaa_ wrote:
    | This isn't true. Lens which optimize for performance at the
    | cost of size are becoming more mainstream. But that isn't to
    | say that this is the trend for the market as a whole. We're
    | simply seeing more options.
    | 
    | Take Sony for example. They have their large 50 1.2 and 1.4,
    | but they also have several small lenses: the insane 55 1.8,
    | the 1.8, the 2.5G, and the 2.8 macro.
    | 
    | And you can go smaller still if you go the manual focus only
    | route, e.g. the even more impressive CV 50 f2 APO.
 
  | _HMCB_ wrote:
  | Yep. The Nikon 50mm 1.8 is such a steal and provides for
  | amazing photos.
 
    | petepete wrote:
    | I love my 50mm f/1.8. I've used it so much over the years and
    | it produces beautiful shots. I also have an old 50mm f/1.4
    | (which can be had for a steal[0]) and while it's nowhere near
    | as sharp, it has a really dreamy quality about it.
    | 
    | [0] https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/nikon-af-
    | nikkor-50mm-f-1-4...
 
  | folkhack wrote:
  | 50mm fixed is a mainstay for many, many photographers - even
  | professionals. When I started shooting all of my
  | teachers/mentors pushed me to get a fast 50mm as a first lens
  | due to the versatility and affordability. If you're doing
  | _anything_ with portraiture it 's a must-have IMO.
  | 
  | I can't live without mine!
 
  | nkozyra wrote:
  | Agreed, there are a number of these that are fast and
  | considered high quality.
  | 
  | Canon had/has some great 1.8 50mm (and pancake 40mm) lenses. I
  | kept my 50 when I moved to mirrorless and it's long been my go-
  | to.
 
| oldstrangers wrote:
| I love a good prime lens. Took this with a Sony FE 24mm f/1.4
| (https://roambyland.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2021/08/ss-1-of-1-...).
| 
| 50mm is probably too 'in the middle' for my uses, as a 24 +
| 70-200 has really replaced my need for a 50, and the ability add
| in a little compression of the foreground with the zoom is really
| nice. If I had infinite space in my bags I'd have a 50 for sure.
| 
| If I was just using one camera I'd still probably want a 24 or 28
| prime (ie: Leica Q2).
 
  | _ph_ wrote:
  | On the other side, the neutral way, the 50 renders szenes is
  | the appeal and the challenge for the photographer. A wide-angle
  | or strong tele lens add a lot to the picture themselves, by
  | their extreme angles of view. The 50 does nothing like that,
  | puts all the burdon on to the photographer. Yet, a lot of the
  | most iconic pictures have been taken by a 50.
 
    | oldstrangers wrote:
    | I'm not sure I'd call using a 50 a burden on the
    | photographer, I think they're probably a lot more intuitive
    | for most photographers. A 50 was the first lens I bought
    | during school, and it was widely regarded as the preferred
    | lens for photography classes from beginner to advanced. I
    | love the 50, I just personally don't have much use for one
    | currently.
 
  | ghaff wrote:
  | You could historically get pretty fast 50mm lenses with good
  | optical quality for relatively little. Not sure of technical
  | reasons why 50mm fell into that standard role. If I had to pick
  | one standard prime lens it would probably be 35mm.
 
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