[HN Gopher] Byte Magazine: Declarative Languages (1985)
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Byte Magazine: Declarative Languages (1985)
 
Author : PaulHoule
Score  : 71 points
Date   : 2022-09-13 18:45 UTC (4 hours ago)
 
web link (archive.org)
w3m dump (archive.org)
 
| ivoras wrote:
| Those ads are much more interesting (nostalgia-wise) than the
| articles!
| 
| Like, they have schematics! And talk about expanding the 640k
| barrier!
 
| forinti wrote:
| These old magazines remind me of my 286. I wish I had kept that
| AT case.
 
| BMorearty wrote:
| What a surprise to go to Byte Magazine from 1985 and see
| Picasso's "Interior with a Girl Drawing" on the cover. I hand-
| painted a copy of it using oil on canvas in a painting class in
| the mid-90s. [1] I still have it on the wall of my backyard
| cottage.
| 
| [1]: https://ibb.co/9qQpGrb
 
| jll29 wrote:
| Some of these articles were written by Robert Kowalski (homepage:
| http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~rak/), who was part of the initial
| Prolog gang/community, which was split between Marseille (FR) and
| Edinburgh (GB).
| 
| This year, PROLOG turned 50 years!
 
  | tannhaeuser wrote:
  | https://logicprogramming.org/2022/02/50-years-of-prolog/
 
| rikroots wrote:
| I went to the magazine expecting to read a 1985 article about
| declarative languages and instead (also) found a review of the
| first Amiga computer. This sentence in the editorial column made
| my day: "Dazzling graphics and audio and an open expansion bus
| make the Amiga the intellectual and technical heir to the Apple
| II." ... if only history had played out differently!
 
  | PaulHoule wrote:
  | The GFX and sound for the Amiga were great but the 68k CPU was
  | overrated. When you factored in how the memory bus worked, 68k
  | machines didn't perform that much better than the Apple II.
  | 
  | Even Motorola gave up on the 68k line and every computer
  | manufacturer that depended on it such as Apple, Commodore,
  | Atari, Sun Microsystems and many others either scrambled to
  | switch to a new CPU or went out of business.
  | 
  | The computer press of the 1980s tells a compelling story about
  | the rise of the 68k but I've never seen a good account of the
  | fall other than the account of why the BBC Micro didn't use it.
 
    | jhbadger wrote:
    | In the early 1990s the "common wisdom" was that CISC
    | architectures were obsolete and that RISC architectures would
    | take over any day. Motorola was part of the alliance that
    | developed the PowerPC architecture (even if it is often
    | described as just coming from IBM). The lack of focus on the
    | 68k was a self-fulfilling prophecy as current versions just
    | couldn't keep up with Intel or the PowerPC, and newer
    | versions weren't being created.
 
      | PaulHoule wrote:
      | Intel came out with this ill-fated chip
      | 
      | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i860
      | 
      | but they didn't throw the x86 under the bus for it's name.
      | If they had, Intel would be a has-been chipmaker the same
      | way Motorola is.
      | 
      | In 1964 IBM realized it was a revolutionary idea to keep
      | the same architecture from one generation of computers to
      | the next. Intel was the second company to take this vision
      | seriously and realize it and that's why Intel not only made
      | the first microprocessor but it is still a dominant
      | producer today. (Alternately the Apple II has no heirs
      | because there wasn't a progression to a compatible Apple 3,
      | Apple 4, etc.)
 
        | smackeyacky wrote:
        | The Apple II did have heirs, lots of them, right up to
        | the late 1980s which meant it was a viable platform for
        | well over a decade. From the ill fated Apple III to the
        | various smaller/faster/better IIc/GS/e and whatnot. It's
        | interesting to watch "The Computer Chronicles" from the
        | 1980s on Youtube and be reminded of how diverse the
        | personal computer industry was back then.
        | 
        | Apple had a dual strategy for far longer than is
        | generally remembered, the Macintosh was a hit but it
        | wasn't a home run for a long time.
 
    | jll29 wrote:
    | 1984: MOS 6510 - first encounter with machine code
    | 
    | 1986: Motorola mc68000 - 32 bit is beautiful
    | 
    | 1991: Intel 80486DX2 - ugh, how ugly, those segment
    | registers!
    | 
    | 1993: HP PA9000 - the arrival of the RISC panther brings
    | enlightenment at the speed of light
    | 
    | But seriously, that issue of Byte magazine reminded me that
    | such mags no longer exist. Now it's just ads and tests.
 
    | mpweiher wrote:
    | > 68k machines didn't perform that much better than the Apple
    | II
    | 
    | ?
    | 
    | The 68K was significantly faster. Faster clock, wider bus,
    | many more and much wider registers and wider/faster ALUs.
    | 
    | Dhrystone is around 20x faster on a Mac than on an Apple //e:
    | 
    | https://netlib.org/performance/html/dhrystone.data.col0.html
 
      | PaulHoule wrote:
      | Faster at 32 bit math but you don't always do 32 bit math,
      | particularly people didn't do a lot of 32 bit math back
      | then. In fact 32 bit math is where the 6502 goes to die
      | because it has nowhere near enough registers.
      | 
      | In terms of real experienced performance in the
      | applications people ran at the time the 68k was a
      | disappointment.
 
        | KerrAvon wrote:
        | I don't recall anyone who actually put it into a system
        | regretting the choice. Unlike the 6502, the 68k also had
        | a viable path forward, which only really ended when all
        | the workstation vendors + Apple decided to jump to RISC.
 
    | renewedrebecca wrote:
    | I coded on Apple IIs, Atari STs, and early Macs, and I
    | remember the 68k machines being quite a bit snappier than the
    | Apple II. Keep in mind, the ST and Mac had a lot more to do
    | in order to make a higher-resolution screen and GUI perform
    | at all.
    | 
    | Also, the big reason the 68k eventually fell out of favor was
    | because it (1) wasn't ready on time for the IBM PC, and (2)
    | couldn't keep pace with Intel on the low-end.
 
  | protomyth wrote:
  | Well, it was more the heir to the Atari 800 where the Atari ST
  | was actually the heir to the Commodore 64. The Atari 800 was
  | far and away better at graphics and sound than the Apple II.
  | 
  | I remember buying this one, and seeing an Amiga a week later in
  | the mall. The Prolog article blew my young mind. How in the
  | heck is it figuring this out, BASIC doesn't do this?!?
 
| realce wrote:
| Only 75k for a C compiler!
 
| LVB wrote:
| What a massive amount of information (including useful catalog-
| style ads) packed into a _monthly_ magazine I could pick up at
| Waldenbooks. I might not have had the internet growing up, but I
| did have 400 pages of this every month, not to mention heavy
| volumes of QuickBasic manuals and Norton books, so I definitely
| wasn 't starved for information as a budding computer nerd!
 
| unwind wrote:
| Oooh that issue also has a preview of the Commodore Amiga, with
| epic block diagrams and tech specs. Having grown up learning the
| ins and outs of the Amiga 500, that is really nostalgic.
| 
| Also seeing "Computing at Chaos Manor", Jerry Pournelle's column,
| in the ToC gave me the warm fuzzies. He always came across as, uh
| I don't know, likable? Like somebody's magically technical super-
| nice granddad/uncle or whatever. When I read Byte I had no idea
| at first about his books, all I knew about him was what I gleaned
| from the columns. So weird. I guess in a way he was an influencer
| waaay before the term even existed? :)
 
  | abecedarius wrote:
  | 'Super nice' is just not the vibe I got from his writing,
  | personally. I liked him anyway. For more nostalgia there's his
  | collection of non-computer columns, _A Step Farther Out_ ; IIRC
  | the main topics were space and energy. Wasn't shy about
  | despising anti-nuclear environmentalists, for a counterexample
  | to "super nice".
 
  | PaulHoule wrote:
  | What I remember is that something happened to Larry Niven (did
  | he have a health problem like Heinlein did?) and then whenever
  | there was a Niven book it was always a Niven-Pournelle book
  | which wasn't as good as a Niven book. Pournelle was also known
  | for his right-wing politics.
 
    | [deleted]
 
    | morelisp wrote:
    | > Pournelle was also known for his right-wing politics.
    | 
    | And Niven isn't?
    | 
    |  _Niven said a good way to help hospitals stem financial
    | losses is to spread rumors in Spanish within the Latino
    | community that emergency rooms are killing patients in order
    | to harvest their organs for transplants. "The problem [of
    | hospitals going broke] is hugely exaggerated by illegal
    | aliens who aren't going to pay for anything anyway," Niven
    | said._
 
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