[HN Gopher] Making iron from sand [video]
___________________________________________________________________
 
Making iron from sand [video]
 
Author : manuelabeledo
Score  : 184 points
Date   : 2022-09-02 18:59 UTC (4 hours ago)
 
web link (www.youtube.com)
w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
 
| hn8305823 wrote:
| You can also make (extract) Iron from corn flakes:
| 
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emXo7l42vRA
 
  | knodi123 wrote:
  | yeah, but the economics on that aren't as efficient. ;-)
 
| samatman wrote:
| If you like the Primitive Technology channel (and if you don't,
| why are you here?) I'd like to suggest Advoko Makes. It's not
| stone age, it's a lawyer from St. Petersburg with a cabin up in
| Karelia. A different take on going out into the wilderness and
| domesticating a little patch of it, his ingenuity and
| craftsmanship really shine through.
 
| Nokinside wrote:
| In practice it's better to go dig limonite from bottom of the
| lakes, rivers where it has already been concentrated. Bog iron
| (mostly goethite) from bogs is also a good source of iron.
 
  | bertil wrote:
  | I believe that the blade he shows early was made in a previous
  | episode from bog iron.
 
| advisedwang wrote:
| A lot of comments here are talking about starting a civilization
| from scratch or ancient practices. Those are interesting topics
| but be aware that's not really what the "Primative Technology"
| channel is about. He's really just a hobbiest seeing what he can
| do from scratch without modern tools. He's not practicing for a
| collapse or reconstructing the past.
 
  | chasil wrote:
  | Iron is actually "made" in the silicon-burning process, in a
  | sufficiently large star, from the perspective of stellar
  | nucleosynthesis.
  | 
  | It would be fair to say that this guy is refining iron.
  | 
  | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon-burning_process
 
    | 1024core wrote:
 
  | jpatt wrote:
  | This comment reminded me of a neat video I saw where
  | reconstructing the past is the explicit intention:
  | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajqort8ldXA.
  | 
  | Starting from 1997, they picked a year 1229 as the simulated
  | start date, then worked to build a castle using, for the most
  | part, only extraction, refinement, and building practices from
  | that year. They may adopt new technologies as they were found
  | in 1230, 1231, etc. as the years progress.
  | 
  | Apparently some of the folks restoring Notre Dame went to
  | apprentice there for a little while to learn some of the
  | woodworking techniques needed for their work on the cathedral.
 
  | sylware wrote:
  | A corollary in the digital domain is the bootstraping required
  | for modern elf/linux based OSes:
  | https://bootstrappable.org/projects.html (aka moving gcc to c++
  | was a huge mistake).
 
| javajosh wrote:
| It's like watching someone work at civilization's command-line.
 
  | vhiremath4 wrote:
  | Beautiful way to put it haha
 
  | gradascent wrote:
  | or writing assembly code
 
| narrator wrote:
| Okay, now build a 3nm semiconductor fab from scratch to record
| the video on. I wonder how long that would take. Let's assume
| that the engineering for the whole thing was perfect and already
| done, you have 1000 workers, every worker is perfectly
| coordinated, didn't screw up and worked say 60 hours a week. 40
| or 50 years? Longer? The prospecting and mining all the unusual
| metals, and finding all the energy generating materials for the
| power plant would take half the time I'd imagine.
 
  | bufferoverflow wrote:
  | From scratch? Over a thousand years. You will have to implement
  | all kinds of processes. Even making basic things like plastics,
  | optical glass.
 
  | ceejayoz wrote:
  | There's some speculation that a collapse of civilization at our
  | current point would be difficult to undo, as we've mined a
  | whole bunch of the easily accessible stuff and have to delve
  | miles underground or sift through megatons of ore for the rest.
 
    | [deleted]
 
    | vbezhenar wrote:
    | Easily available coal and oil is more likely issue. But I
    | think that wood can be a replacement for energy source. It's
    | not as cheap so progress will be limited until better energy
    | sources will be built.
 
    | 8note wrote:
    | Idk, most of the stuff we've mined is concentrated in
    | existing stuff or in landfills.
    | 
    | Finding completely new ores could be a challenge, but most of
    | the stuff is just around on the surface now
 
      | jayd16 wrote:
      | Metals can be recycled but I assume they mean oil.
 
        | ithkuil wrote:
        | A lot of history happened before people started using
        | petroleum and its derivates
 
    | jjk166 wrote:
    | Except if our society was to collapse there would be brand
    | new massive veins of resources extremely close to the surface
    | and with incredibly high purity in the form of the old cities
    | and infrastructure that we already built. Eventually they
    | would have to make some jump from recovering previously
    | collected resources to exploiting new sources, but by that
    | point they would already have reached levels comparable to
    | us.
 
      | alach11 wrote:
      | We would be missing the cheap energy from hydrocarbons.
 
        | AnimalMuppet wrote:
        | If civilization collapsed today, a bunch of the Powder
        | River coal would still be there.
 
      | colinmhayes wrote:
      | No fossil fuels though.
 
        | jjk166 wrote:
        | The fact we happened to utilize cheap fossil fuels does
        | not prove that fossil fuels are necessary for an advanced
        | civilization to develop. One might even argue our
        | prolonged use of fossil fuels was a mistake.
 
        | [deleted]
 
        | WJW wrote:
        | Most of the early industrial revolution was done with
        | water wheels, steam engines came much later. Since most
        | of the iron and copper extraction would be much much
        | easier since you could loot them from pre-collapse
        | cities, it could be a wash.
        | 
        | And of course if even a single library survives mostly
        | intact then our successors will get an absolutely massive
        | jump start. Just a single "principles of physics" college
        | textbook contains centuries of research.
 
| t3estabc wrote:
| That
 
| bertil wrote:
| Detail at the beginning of the video, but if the metallic sand is
| heavier, why not wash sand and collect the bottom? Is the sluice
| helping much?
 
| umvi wrote:
| There's an anime called "Dr. Stone" which also explores the
| concept of starting civilization over with nothing but modern
| knowledge. The protagonist basically has all of Wikipedia
| memorized so that he can make optimal choices to advance
| technology given the resources at hand.
| 
| It's kind of silly and often hand wavy (especially when it comes
| to how much labor is _actually_ needed to realistically produce
| refined materials). And it has the usual eye-roll-inducing shonen
| anime tropes. But if you like the  "Primitive Technology" YouTube
| channel, you might get a kick out of "Dr. Stone".
 
  | domador wrote:
  | On a related note, you might be interested in the book "How to
  | Invent Everything: A Survival Guide for the Stranded Time
  | Traveler" by Ryan North. It addresses that idea, of restarting
  | civilization and reinventing the technology that has been most
  | helpful.
 
  | vitiral wrote:
  | Huh, this is pretty much my personal project (civboot.org), but
  | I've never heard of Dr Stone!
 
  | mgaunard wrote:
  | It was a manga serialized in Shounen Jump, the anime is merely
  | an adaptation.
 
  | lhorie wrote:
  | Not quite as pre-historic, but along similar lines, I quite
  | enjoyed Honzuki no Gekokujou (Ancendance of a bookworm), a
  | series about a book-loving girl reborn as a sickly poor
  | commoner child in a fantasy world and her attempts to create
  | books (and other modern products) from scratch.
 
    | connicpu wrote:
    | Definitely echoing this one, the light novels are incredible
    | for anyone looking for something fun and casual to read. It
    | deviates a bit more into the fantasy and political drama
    | arena as the series goes on, but you still get fun references
    | to reinventing products from our world all throughout.
 
| peter_d_sherman wrote:
| Using a primitive sluice to extract heavier particulate matter
| (presumably mostly iron or some form of iron oxide -- since iron
| is one of the most common elements in the earth's crust) -- is
| absolutely brilliant!
| 
| (I suppose if you were a survivalist, and you were "cheating"
| (not going through all the necessary steps to realize iron
| without modern tools), you could simply use a portable neodymium
| magnet to go through large amounts of dirt -- whatever particles
| stick are "mostly iron" ore -- which can now be processed
| further, such as being smelted, etc.)
| 
| Related:
| 
| How To Make Everything - Smelting Iron from Rocks (Primitive Iron
| Age Extraction):
| 
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUn6LzakHsM
| 
| Good and Basic - Smelt Success! (Iron Smelt #8):
| 
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6_zVvG4FNo
 
| code_duck wrote:
| As a kid I was fascinated by the extraction of iron from sand
| using a magnet. I'd hang out in sandboxes on playgrounds and
| collect it. I figured out you could wrap the magnet in a plastic
| bag for easy removal of iron filings. Last I recall I had filled
| two and a half peanut butter jars.
 
  | [deleted]
 
  | lostlogin wrote:
  | There are beaches on New Zealand's west coast that are black
  | iron sand. It's used to make steel at Glenbrook new Auckland.
  | The sand is hot as all hell in summer and it gets into
  | everything, things with magnets in particular. Watching people
  | cross the sand in summer is amusing. Patients with it on them
  | need a good wash before MRI scans - a known hazard in radiology
  | here.
 
| rendall wrote:
| This should make playing Minecraft easier
 
| sheeeep86 wrote:
| Thank you for this, I always knew that if I had to restart
| civilization from scratch I would have to go without anything
| digital because I understand the way thing work abstractly, but I
| could never make it happen. At least now I can think back on this
| video and wonder what magical tricks he did during those moments
| when the scene fast forwarded and magically progress was made.
 
  | NegativeLatency wrote:
  | Probably easier to just scavenge stuff, if you're fortunate
  | enough to survive the initial fallout/disruption from say a
  | nuclear war there's going to be a lot of stuff and not so many
  | people.
  | 
  | David Gingery's book "Build your own metalworking shop from
  | scrap" is a very fun read though
 
    | blackboxlogic wrote:
    | This is "Primitive Technology". It sounds like you're looking
    | for a "Post-Apocalypse Technology" series. I would watch that
    | as well.
 
    | jjk166 wrote:
    | There will be lots of stuff, but what are the odds that
    | exactly the thing you need will be available and in working
    | condition? If you can make something entirely from scratch,
    | you can make any subset of it from scratch. More generally,
    | developing the means to do something yourself gives you a
    | much deeper understanding than simply utilizing someone
    | else's solution.
 
  | inasio wrote:
  | In the description of the video on youtube he often explains
  | how long the full project took, and clarifying what took
  | longest, it's always much longer than I expect (in the
  | trebuchet video I think the problem was that collecting bark to
  | make the rope took a very long time)
 
  | skykooler wrote:
  | Watch the video with subtitles on - he explains everything he's
  | doing and why he's doing it.
 
  | bergenty wrote:
  | Like what? He's pretty assiduous about showing everything on
  | camera or explaining it in the cc. Do you have cc turned on?
 
    | pcorsaro wrote:
    | He shows all the processes in great detail, but he definitely
    | cuts out the extremely long hours of repetitive hard work he
    | puts in that would be boring for the viewer to watch. For
    | instance, when he makes bricks, he'll show one trip to the
    | creek for the water, all the mixing, shaping and drying, etc.
    | for one batch, then he fast forwards through the dozen more
    | batches he does.
 
  | reidjs wrote:
  | I think those deleted scenes are hours upon hours of tedious
  | labor.
 
    | tootie wrote:
    | His blog will usually tell you how long he actually worked on
    | things. Some of them are surprisingly fast. But he is also
    | probably not posting all of his failures.
 
      | knodi123 wrote:
      | sure, notice how he says things like "3 double handfuls of
      | charcoal, 3 single handfuls of iron-bearing sand", or "dry
      | fire for one hour before trying to smelt", etc. Any time he
      | mentions a number or a ratio, I guarantee it's hard-won
      | knowledge that took ages to come up with (even if it was
      | one of his ancestors that did it, and he just learned it
      | from a book).
 
        | ithkuil wrote:
        | And/or a combination of "it worked with 3 handful; I'll
        | note it down and not mess with it"
 
    | bombcar wrote:
    | Exactly - he'll show you the step, and then either ff the
    | waiting, or ff the repeating the step over and over and over
    | again.
 
| jonplackett wrote:
| I once went on a foraging walk with an expert forager. It was fun
| and entertaining and sort-of-useful. But he'd say things like
| "see this seed" _holds up VERY tiny plant with VERY tiny seed_
| "if you collect enough of these you can grind then up to make
| flour and then make bread."
| 
| The whole thing made me less excited about foraging and more
| excited about how frikkin amazing a supermarket and global supply
| chain is.
| 
| This video gives me the same feeling. Thank fuck people figured
| all this out for us a long time ago.
 
  | jxramos wrote:
  | we've been getting into gardening a bit more this year and
  | looking at all that's involved with buying a can of beans or
  | veggies or whatever I look at those things with a whole new
  | appreciation. We don't just pay for the raw produce from some
  | place, we pay for all the labor that went into cleaning and
  | packaging, and everything that brought that piece to us. When
  | you grow your own you need to do all the prep and washing and
  | canning etc if you so choose. It's quite a chunk of labor to
  | commit to.
 
| showerst wrote:
| If you're not familiar with this channel, you're in for a treat!
| 
| Turn on closed captions to get an explanation of what's going on.
 
  | gregsadetsky wrote:
  | I was afraid this was going to be a "fake" primitive technology
  | channel... but it seems that this one, "Primitive Technology",
  | is actually the _only_ real one! It was even used as "a
  | baseline for what SHOULD be achievable in a natural setting"
  | [0]
  | 
  | The video hyperlinked below is a fascinating debunking of most
  | other "primitive" channels.
  | 
  | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvk63LADbFc
 
    | tootie wrote:
    | Yeah, this guy is the OG. There's a few exposes on other
    | channels and how they have crews and machinery off camera
    | doing most of the work. This guy is real.
 
    | JamesUtah07 wrote:
    | This guy basically invented the genre and everything's else
    | has been copping his success. Most can't do the stuff he does
    | and to differentiate they just make stuff up.
 
      | jandrese wrote:
      | I remember after watching one of his videos YouTube started
      | recommending all of those other primitive construction
      | videos.
      | 
      | So many shots of a shirtless Asian guy poking at the ground
      | with a stick and walking off with a scant handful of dirt
      | cutting to a 10x10x10 foot hole in the ground with
      | perfectly square sides and the guy poking at the bottom of
      | the hole with the same stick. Laughably bullshit.
 
        | CydeWeys wrote:
        | And with mini bucket excavator tracks surrounding the
        | hole, no less.
 
      | inerte wrote:
      | Blisters on his hand, cuts on his foot, dirty all over the
      | shoulder.
      | 
      | I remember when he was posting more frequently (I guess
      | there has been a hiatus over the last 2-3 years) I would
      | step away from the Friday evening company all hands to
      | watch his new video as soon as I saw the notification.
      | Which makes me think, perhaps this channel is still the
      | only one I actually have "click the bell to be notified".
      | 
      | AAA content.
 
        | gabrielsroka wrote:
        | > hiatus
        | 
        | He was writing a book which he now sells.
 
      | RicoElectrico wrote:
      | The same thing happened with the hydraulic press channel.
      | Copycats emerged there as well.
 
        | untech wrote:
        | Can you post a link to it? Sounds interesting.
 
        | kube-system wrote:
        | https://www.youtube.com/c/hydraulicpresschannel
 
    | kazinator wrote:
    | Oh most of those videos are _obviously_ staged; but they are
    | well-done and entertaining.
    | 
    | I watched one of them recently with my 3 1/2 year old, who
    | loved it, displaying amazing attention span through the whole
    | thing and making comments like how they nicely made this and
    | that.
    | 
    | Why would anyone waste their energy debunking that; but go,
    | go, you champion for the egregiously gullible, I suppose ..
 
  | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
  | I also recommend buying his book [0] as a means to support his
  | awesome work. I will almost certainly never actually do any of
  | this, but it's fun to read anyway! Especially after watching
  | the videos of him doing it.
  | 
  | [0] https://www.amazon.com/Primitive-Technology-complete-
  | making-...
 
    | gruez wrote:
    | >I also recommend buying his book [0] as a means to support
    | his awesome work
    | 
    | He has a pateron. If you don't want the book and only want to
    | support his work that's probably the better route.
 
    | bcrosby95 wrote:
    | It's mildly humorous to me that the book is available on
    | Kindle.
 
  | inasio wrote:
  | The youtube description for each video has a lot more details,
  | especially on how long the different steps take.
 
  | shireboy wrote:
  | This guy is an absolute gem. Quality content every single post
 
  | danw1979 wrote:
  | I've watched Jon's videos for years now without knowing he
  | added captions... thanks for the tip !
  | 
  | He used to write a blog to go with each video which I really
  | enjoyed.
 
| [deleted]
 
| [deleted]
 
| alephxyz wrote:
| Reminds me of thetoasterproject.org
 
  | verytrivial wrote:
  | The first I recall seeing was the art/science project
  | "Immaculate Telegraphy". This was the first time I saw, or
  | perhaps felt, that memory and knowledge is also imparted into
  | the tools themselves -- _knowing_ what to do is not enough,
  | there 's a bunch of subtle boot-strapping steps that need to
  | bake progress into actual artifacts too. And also how much of
  | this extra-cranial knowledge is taken for granted now.
  | 
  | https://immaculatetelegraphy.tumblr.com/
 
  | NegativeLatency wrote:
  | Yeah the bit where his hut was full of smelter fumes reminded
  | me of how the toaster creator poisoned themself tring to refine
  | metal
 
| anticristi wrote:
| I feel so privileged being born after the industrial revolution.
 
| jandrese wrote:
| One of the things that really stands out is just how much wood
| goes into every gram of iron he extracted. That charcoal pile was
| huge and it was only enough for a dozen or so BB sized chunks of
| iron. The limitation on the availability of iron in primitive
| times seems mostly limited by the size of the nearby forest and
| how good you are at converting them into charcoal.
 
  | bertil wrote:
  | The same observation is likely true for a lot of carbon-
  | intensive goods. I've read how much carbon goes into a kilo of
  | beef, but I've never seen a graphic representation.
 
  | netman21 wrote:
  | Why England was deforested.
 
  | CydeWeys wrote:
  | This is indeed true, and Bret Devereaux has written about it
  | extensively on ACOUP:
  | https://acoup.blog/2020/09/25/collections-iron-how-did-they-...
 
| Lucasoato wrote:
| Trigger warning: not a Minecraft video.
 
  | pvorb wrote:
  | Now imagine if that was the process of getting iron in
  | Minecraft.
  | 
  | I never understood why some people think that games must be
  | realistic to be fun.
 
| nathias wrote:
| also a knife from bacteria
 
| holoduke wrote:
| Does this guy lives in the perfect spot to do these things?
| Making clay seems to be easy. Large quantities of metals in the
| ground. Never cold, plenty of wood everywhere.
 
  | soperj wrote:
  | He used to live in the city in Australia and go out to a piece
  | of property owned by a friend, based on the amount of money
  | that he's made from his channel though I think he now bought a
  | property just to do this. He was a lawn maintenance guy if I
  | remember correctly.
 
  | gus_massa wrote:
  | > _Never cold, plenty of wood everywhere._
  | 
  | From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_Technology
  | 
  | > _Primitive Technology is a YouTube channel run by John Plant.
  | Based in [Far North Queensland] in the Australian state of
  | Queensland,_
  | 
  | From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_North_Queensland
  | 
  | > _Far North Queensland has a tropical climate and as such, the
  | name Tropical North Queensland is sometimes used to refer to
  | the region, mostly due to the tourism industry._
  | 
  | > _Making clay seems to be easy._
  | 
  | I agree. [At least the rivers I know have plenty of clay.]
  | 
  | > _Large quantities of metals in the ground._
  | 
  | I guess this is the most difficult part. It depends a lot on
  | the exact place you are. It would be nice to know how much sand
  | did he process and how much iron he got.
 
    | augusto-moura wrote:
    | Trace amounts of iron are present almost every where on the
    | planet, most of it is bound to other elements though. You can
    | easily find small "lines" of it in streams and river beds
 
      | bcrosby95 wrote:
      | Yep, and this was the initial benefit of iron despite
      | bronze generally being better - you can find it anywhere,
      | vs needing to source both copper and tin which tended to
      | come from different, far flung places.
 
        | aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
        | But the Bronze Age preceded the Iron Age...
 
        | CydeWeys wrote:
        | But iron won out in the end. It's harder to process, but
        | the result is better.
 
        | Lariscus wrote:
        | Bronze has a lower melting point compared to Iron making
        | it much easier to work with. I think you also have to
        | invent charcoal first to reach the temperatures necessary
        | to melt iron ore.
 
    | dylan604 wrote:
    | Seems like if there were enough metal in the soil to be this
    | easy to retrieve, a larger mining interest would already be
    | there. Then again, I know nothing of Queensland to know if it
    | is protected against that kind of thing or not.
 
      | AnimalMuppet wrote:
      | "It's there" != "it's economical to extract commercially".
      | And that != "it's _more_ economical to extract than other
      | places ".
 
  | 13of40 wrote:
  | Just this summer I noticed that the magnets on the back of my
  | barbecue thermometer were picking up a lot of magnetic sand
  | from the local riverbank. I went back with a super-duper
  | magnet-fishing magnet and found that probably 20% of the rocks
  | there were magnetic. I've explored a little bit, and (mind
  | blown) there are magnetic rocks all over the place, from cliff
  | sides to rocks in my front yard to gravel from my friend's
  | driveway. I haven't looked anywhere outside of Oregon and
  | Washington though, but it seems like rocks with significant
  | (presumably)-iron content aren't rare at all.
 
  | selimnairb wrote:
  | Never mind where he lives. Where does he get the time to do
  | this amazing stuff?
 
    | WJW wrote:
    | Short answer: He has a youtube channel with 10m subscribers.
 
    | jandrese wrote:
    | He has over 10 million subscribers. He makes enough from
    | YouTube that this can be a fulltime job.
 
  | drexlspivey wrote:
  | He bought a plot with everything he needs
 
  | Narretz wrote:
  | I think so. A few years ago, he moved his operation to a
  | different spot of land because it had more / other resources he
  | wanted.
 
| martythemaniak wrote:
| I love this channel and have been watching it for years, but one
| note of caution: this isn't the same type of primitive technology
| our ancestors used tens to hundreds of thousands of years ago. I
| would best describe it as "technology from scratch using all
| available modern knowledge".
| 
| In a way it's even more interesting than trying to do primitive
| technology as it actually was. In this example, he's using modern
| knowledge of ore smelting and doing it in a way with the fewest
| tools/processes possible. Our ancestors (250,000 to ~3000 years
| go) _could_ have done this, but they didn 't. Metallurgy did not
| appear until a few thousand years ago and iron working working
| even later than bronze and other types of metal working. In fact,
| he's not even trying _that_ hard, as he doesn 't use the stream
| to build a waterwheel and automate many of his processes (though
| he did build a water hammer once).
| 
| Really makes you think what's perfectly possible physically
| today, but we lack the knowledge to actually do it.
 
| [deleted]
 
| jon_adler wrote:
| Great video! I was wondering which country he was in when I heard
| the unmistakable screech of the cockatoo (or possibly a galah).
 
| nonameiguess wrote:
| It became a thing at my elementary school in the 80s to try and
| sell iron to hobby shops for cash, so kids were tearing out the
| big magnets from speakers and digging into the sandboxes at
| school to pull iron out of the sand.
| 
| I never did it because I doubted you could really get money for a
| few ounces of iron and it looked pretty tedious to dig in a
| sandbox all day with a fist-sized magnet, and they were ruining
| speakers to do it. Who knew there was an even more tedious way to
| do this with clay and water?
 
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-09-02 23:00 UTC)