[HN Gopher] You Can't Buy Integration
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You Can't Buy Integration
 
Author : mpweiher
Score  : 35 points
Date   : 2021-12-07 21:20 UTC (1 hours ago)
 
web link (martinfowler.com)
w3m dump (martinfowler.com)
 
| ako wrote:
| Regarding visual diffing: "The delta between source code commits
| can only be represented textually; graphical palettes are not
| designed to represent change over time."
| 
| I would think visual systems might be in a better spot to
| visualize change over time. Some of Tufte's diagrams have
| interesting ideas of how this could be represented statically,
| but turning static code diffs into illustrated animations might
| even be better than code diffing...
 
| csours wrote:
| You Can't Buy Understanding of Your Problems
| 
| You Can't Buy Someone Else Caring about Your Problems
| 
| It seems like you can hire experts to understand and consultants
| to care about your problems, but someone has to bring the intent
| and to close the loop.
 
| vog wrote:
| I have always suspected this to be the case, but it is great to
| see it confirmed and well-explained in detail by an almost-
| authority in our field.
| 
| I wonder if in the near future we'll see a similar article
| regarding security - "You Can't Buy Security".
 
  | purerandomness wrote:
  | Wow, didn't expect to read something as condescending as
  | calling Martin Fowler an "almost-authority" in this thread...
 
    | gnabgib wrote:
    | While it's Martin's blog, most posts these days are by other
    | people.. this particular one is by "Brandon Byars"
 
| debacle wrote:
| Fowler doesn't ship. When you read his articles, especially when
| they make you feel like _you_ know something others (especially
| those awful management types) don 't, remember that he hasn't
| made anything.
| 
| He is a software life coach.
 
  | robbintt wrote:
  | It's not true. I am literally reading "Refactoring" right now.
  | It's very good.
 
  | Jtsummers wrote:
  | Fowler isn't the author so if you're reading this article you
  | aren't reading one of _his_ (Fowler 's) articles. Check the
  | byline: Brandon Byars. I have no knowledge of this person so
  | can't comment on his particular relevance, but seriously, took
  | 1 second to see who the author is.
 
  | hobofan wrote:
  | Not sure why you are writing this. Fowler isn't the author of
  | the article.
  | 
  | martinfowler.com nowadays is just the Thoughtworks blog. I
  | can't remember the last time reading a article by Fowler on
  | there.
 
    | debacle wrote:
    | Even better, we're listening to someone who has accomplished
    | less than Martin Fowler.
 
      | dang wrote:
      | Please don't do personal attacks on HN. The damage to the
      | ecosystem outweighs any benefit such harshness provides.
      | You can make your substantive points without that.
      | 
      | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
 
| 988747 wrote:
| It is a weird article. Fowler obviously knows a lot about
| integration, but since his business is about writing software he
| tries to discredit "low code tools", so that more people use his
| services. I think that those tools are great for exactly the
| reasons indirectly stated in the article - they take the mind off
| the implementation and let you focus on bigger picture. I was
| involved in tons of integration project and they were always 90+%
| about communication: agreeing on interfaces. The actual
| implementation is almost always trivial, with tools like TIBCO or
| MuleSoft you can sometimes do it in 15-30 minutes (for simple
| flows, the more complex ones can take up to 3 days).
 
  | random314 wrote:
  | This article seems to be by Brandon, not Martin
 
| jefflombardjr wrote:
| Really great read. Long but worth it.
| 
| This is a good critique of low-code/no-code in general. The root
| problem I see of "Unfortunately, when we frame the problem space
| that way, we have allowed our tools to think for us." is that in
| reality there are just not enough qualified software engineers
| out there.
 
  | gnabgib wrote:
  | The article isn't finished yet (see the footer)... so it'll be
  | a longer read
 
  | keyle wrote:
  | I got bounced off a React job once, for not being good enough
  | at React.
  | 
  | Mind you I've been building SPA's since they weren't "a thing"
  | and today I mostly use Vue.
  | 
  | But for that role, they didn't like my lack of .env variables
  | in the front-end (such as for things that end up in the html!),
  | after a 3 hours coding test, and a couple of minot React-y tid
  | bits they couldn't even clarify. Basically, not "idiomatic".
  | 
  | Meanwhile, none of them could tell me how React actually works,
  | beyond throwing jargon vomit. They couldn't write a web
  | application without React.
  | 
  | That is the sad state of affairs today; and I'm finding it's
  | not just in the front-end, where you could argue that you need
  | sanity on this pile of rubbles. It's also in the backend,
  | especially on the auto-magic "DevOps!"
 
  | hinkley wrote:
  | I've hear the way to succeed with SAP is to reorganize your
  | business to match either the default world view or some other
  | cookie cutter variant. Essentially using it no code style.
  | 
  | Otherwise you're exerting yourself doing "normal" things.
  | That's not sustainable.
 
| cardosof wrote:
| The post isn't bad or anything, its just that coming from Fowler
| (or a partner) who sells software services and books on software
| for a living, it is as biased as it gets.
| 
| I would love to read more on this particular topic but from the
| point of view of someone who needed to get the job done and tried
| no/low code tools and building his own thing and learned the pros
| and cons of each approach. Everything else looks like salespeople
| talking.
 
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