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|u/blackdynomitesnewbag - 11 hours
|
|These people are terrorists
|u/TorrenceMightingale - 11 hours
|
|What gave it away? The terrorism?
|u/blackdynomitesnewbag - 11 hours
|
|More or less
|u/go3dprintyourself - 17 minutes
|
|Yes they are.
|u/re_de_unsassify - 7 hours
|
|That’s terrorism.
|u/Clever_Bee34919 - 13 hours
|
|Stop calling them settlers, call them what they are: bastards
|u/Anothersurviver - 13 hours
|
|*terrorists
|u/kinky-proton - 13 hours
|
|With ministers in the Israeli government*
|u/stainorstreak - 3 hours
|
|*armed wing of the current Israeli government
|u/Migez - 8 hours
|
|Actually in Israel almost everyone call them "Squatters" or even
|"Squatterrorist" (in Hebrew of course)
|u/Carl555 - 6 hours
|
|If everyone called them that, they wouldn't be doing this. They're
|only doing it, because the government tolerates it. The government
|is backed by a majority of people who either view this positively,
|or just tolerate it. So let's be 100% fair here: a lot of
|Israelis support this. And not caring enough to speak up counts as
|support unfortunately.
|u/Migez - 4 hours
|
|Government != people. I wouldn't say the majority supports this ([
|source](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/20/settlements-
|and-violence-in-the-west-bank-and-east-jerusalem/)). And plenty
|of people do care. The 1+ million people who take to the streets,
|block roads, strike, and refuse to serve in the army as a form of
|protest (at least before the war) care deeply. They represent
|more than 2-3 million others (not everyone who cares necessarily
|joins protests). The overwhelming majority of those with this
|ideology believe that the settlers are destroying the country,
|ruining chances for peace, and that this messianic government must
|fall. They support seeking a diplomatic solution rather than a
|military one.
|u/Carl555 - 2 hours
|
|The stats you gave me are very worrying. I'm not sure they
|really support your argument... > When it comes to Jewish
|settlements in the West Bank, 40% of the public say they help
|Israeli national security, while 35% say they hurt. An
|additional 21% think settlements don’t make much difference to
|the country’s security. 40% (!) downright supports this. And
|21% aren't really sure... Like wtf? That's a majority that is
|pro-settlements or isn't concerned enough to act against them.
|u/Migez - 1 hour
|
|Including the 40% who actively support settlements with the
|21% who are indifferent or unsure feels like a bad faith
|argument to me. Indifference isn’t the same as support. That
|said, I completely agree that the 40% who outright support
|settlements is deeply concerning. The group I’m part of is
|fighting this with every ounce of our strength. The easy
|choice for me would be to leave this place with my foreign
|citizenship, but as a Jewish person, I don’t believe there’s a
|safer place for me in the world, unfortunately. So, I’ve
|chosen to stay and fight against the system and the government
|as much as I can. And I’m far from alone in this fight. I’m
|also glad I could help correct the misinformation that the
|majority actively support settlements. From my experience, a
|lot of people who claim to support them haven’t really thought
|through the consequences. Of course, that’s just from my
|personal experience, I wouldn't argue it as a fact.
|u/Carl555 - 57 minutes
|
|With regards to indifference: The only thing necessary for
|evil to triumph in the world is that good men do nothing.
|Keep fighting the good fight, but imo it's clear you guys
|need to go further. The longest general strike in my country
|lasted 32 days. The best Histadrut has done is 1 day.
|There's a lot more margin to really hurt Bibi's government.
|u/Druss118 - 53 minutes
|
|Except they don’t. Settler MK’s are a minority. People who vote
|for settler parties are a minority. The majority protest this
|shit. It’s just the settler parties have a lot of sway in
|government due to PR and Bibi’s weak coalition.
|u/Carl555 - 48 minutes
|
|Likud and other parties are enabling this stuff. There is no
|point in denying it. If enough people agree or are indifferent
|to the presence of settler influences in government, then this
|is what happens.
|u/Druss118 - 25 minutes
|
|I never said they weren’t. I’m saying a majority don’t
|support it.
|u/basinchampagne - 6 hours
|
|Yeah? Including the IDF soldiers that trail behind them?
|u/Migez - 5 hours
|
|You would need to ask them yourself
|u/basinchampagne - 4 hours
|
|Oh, but you can tell me what nearly everyone calls them in
|Israel? With a huge contingent backing people like Ben Gvir and
|Netanyahu?
|u/Migez - 4 hours
|
|Yes, I would say that, because even people who support them
|call them squatters, and sometimes the squatters themselves
|use the term. Maybe they're trying to reclaim the word and
|strip it of its negative connotation? I'm not sure. That’s why
|we came up with the term "squatterrorist."
|u/DiscipleOfYeshua - 11 hours
|
|Yes, in many ways. These lunatic perpetrators are also traitors of
|actual normative settlers. They are criminals who hurt innocent
|people, like Hamas, while also marring the reputation of many segments
|who are good people, like Hamas.
|u/forsakenpear - 46 minutes
|
|I don’t understand how you can have ‘normative settlers’. It’s
|illegal occupation perpetuated by violence, I don’t understand how
|you can be a normal innocent settler.
|u/Channing1986 - 11 hours
|
|I'm pro Israel but fuck these guys. IDF needs to stop them.
|u/capybaras_forever - 9 hours
|
|I'm literally Israeli but fuck these guys. Most of us hate them,
|unfortunately not all of us, but maybe in the future
|u/JoeShmoAfro - 3 hours
|
|Do you distinguish between different people living beyond the green
|line? Like, what's your thoughts on the people living in Hashmonaim
|or Efrat?
|u/NexexUmbraRs - 2 hours
|
|As a soldier who deals with them, it's outside of the IDF authority.
|In such cases, one needs to fall either Magav (border police), or
|police who are able to arrest them. The issue is that they take
|longer to respond. By the time the soldiers arrive, the settlers who
|are usually masked retreat. Another issue is when police do arrive,
|they are from the area and typically know the kids personally and try
|to reach a conclusion without arrest by telling them to go home.
|Unfortunately it's more complicated than just stopping.
|u/Chakalot - 7 minutes
|
|Funny how they can take out terrorists but cant do anything for
|"masked men". Are you that naive ?
|u/gman757 - 11 hours
|
|Half of them are probably a part of the IDF
|u/CBT7commander - 11 hours
|
|Probably carries a lot of weight here Unless you mean formerly and
|not active service, in which case yeah, mandatory military service
|will do that
|u/Scooter93 - 10 hours
|
|Orthodox don’t carry mandatory military service i believe. So if
|that’s what they are then no.
|u/ConqueredCabbage - 9 hours
|
|You mean the Ultra Orthodox (Haredi). They are generally not
|settlers and are exempt from mandatory service. Settlers are
|national religious mostly, and do serve. Some of them are exempt
|from service because the army does not trust them, when they
|have terrorist allegations for example or a bad history in the
|family. One example for that is our horrible, right-wing,
|national defence minister Ben Gvir. These people are the worst
|Israel has to offer, and they get special treatment for
|political reasons whilethe right wing government is in power
|u/avidernis - 9 hours
|
|Also they do reject from service or areas of service depending
|on their character. Vetting is at least attempted.
|u/CBT7commander - 7 hours
|
|Ultra orthodox are indeed exempt of military service but they
|are very rarely settlers iirc, so again not very relevant
|u/basinchampagne - 6 hours
|
|You can OBJECT to the military service and is in NO WAY
|"mandatory".
|u/BagelandShmear48 - 3 hours
|
|Under very select circumstances only. Service is still mandatory
|for most of us.
|u/basinchampagne - 3 hours
|
|What do you mean, under select circumstances? Do tell me what
|horrible implications there are once you refuse?
|u/CBT7commander - 3 hours
|
|You can go to prison. Many people have over the years. That
|is in addition to the stigma of refusing military service,
|but jail time is more tangible
|u/BagelandShmear48 - 2 hours
|
|There is also employment restrictions in some industries.
|u/basinchampagne - 2 hours
|
|That sounds like a very normal and healthy society.
|u/basinchampagne - 2 hours
|
|Care to link to these actual cases? How many years of jail
|is that? Or are we talking about 3 months or something? To
|pretend like you can't conscientiously object is
|preposterous.
|u/jwrose - 8 hours
|
|Then they suck at influence, because it’s the IDF calling this out
|u/Puzzlyduzly - 6 hours
|
|More than half of them are not those guys are before army or never
|went to the army
|u/BagelandShmear48 - 3 hours
|
|You would be surprised how many settlers are not drafted due to
|extremism regulations in the army.
|u/Expln - 8 hours
|
|It's not the IDF role to stop them. that's on the police to do it.
|u/capybaras_forever - 6 hours
|
|Well the police is controlled by Ben Gvir, who's probably the worst
|we have to offer, so yeah they not gonna stop them
|u/Chakalot - 8 minutes
|
|IDF will help them if anything. You guys really thought they were
|there for hamas ? They went in Gaza to steal more lands as they did in
|the past.
|u/ChinaCatProphet - 10 hours
|
|If these had been Palestinian arsonists, the IDF would have shot them.
|Terrorism is terrorism.
|u/NexexUmbraRs - 2 hours
|
|Unfortunately the IDF don't have the jurisdiction to arrest or shoot
|them unless they arrive and see an immediate threat on human life
|which they can prevent. The settlers usually stop when they see the
|soldiers, and then by the time the police arrive they're gone.
|u/Matman161 - 11 hours
|
|I'll bet they tried real hard to stop them.
|u/yuje - 11 hours
|
|Yep, I bet there will be air strikes on their neighborhoods and
|illegal outposts any day now. /s
|u/BigDaddy0790 - 6 hours
|
|Air strikes on their own citizens?
|u/Carl555 - 6 hours
|
|"You can't negotiate with terrorists"
|u/NexexUmbraRs - 2 hours
|
|As an IDF soldier, yes we try hard to stop them. Unfortunately
|stopping them doesn't do much when they walk away (IDF don't have the
|authority to detain them) and repeat when the soldiers aren't there.
|u/forsakenpear - 53 minutes
|
|Why don’t they just shoot them like they do with anyone else they
|suspect of being a terrorist?
|u/Chakalot - 6 minutes
|
|You created the conditions for this.
|u/NexexUmbraRs - 49 seconds
|
|How exactly? Lol
|u/yoyo456 - 9 hours
|
|Eh, arson they probably try to stop. In general, most IDF soldiers
|step in when something will kill Palestinians. Hurt them, even
|severely, sometimes but not always though. But they'll usually stop
|thing that will kill people. It's not that it is out of some love for
|Palestinians either, when someone is killed (on either side) it just
|heats up the local issues even more and makes their job harder later
|to keep order.
|u/NinjaQuatro - 7 hours
|
|The IDF soldiers and Israeli security forces are the ones killing
|Palestinians in the West Bank
|u/ArchitectNebulous - 14 hours
|
|I wish the IDF had more authority to go after/stop these fuckers. Bibi
|has blocked them nearly every time.
|u/_TheBored_ - 7 hours
|
|As an Israeli (and Israeli supporter) this cycle of violence really
|needs to stop. The IDF does a good enough job in fighting terror where
|it forms in the west bank, we don't need nor want a bunch of settlers to
|take that fight instead of the IDF in the form of burning cars of
|innocent/uninvolved families.
|u/longtimeyisland - 5 hours
|
|>The IDF does a good enough job in fighting terror where it forms in
|the west bank, You're saying the quite part out loud. Clearly they
|aren't, at least when Israelis are doing the terrorism. Or is it just
|the system working as intended?
|u/_TheBored_ - 4 hours
|
|>at least when Israelis are doing the terrorism I was talking about
|palestinian terror. What the settlers are doing is also really bad
|but the IDF does fight them and the government supporting them is
|not eternal. Other governments did fight the settlers and tried to
|stop the violence between palestinians and settlers in the west
|bank.
|u/L3301 - 1 hour
|
|"The violence between Palestinians and the settlers" is a nice way
|to phrase it. Like saying when I call the police on the man
|breaking into my house I hope they are able to come and end the
|violence between us.
|u/_TheBored_ - 1 hour
|
|I don't understand the point? It isn't violence just from the
|side of the settlers you know that right?
|u/forsakenpear - 50 minutes
|
|You call one side ‘terrorists’ and the other side ‘people
|taking the fight to the terrorists’. They are both terrorists.
|The IDF clearly only uses force against terrorists on one
|side. So no, they aren’t doing a good job of dealing with
|terror in the West Bank.
|u/_TheBored_ - 24 minutes
|
|I didn't call the settlers "people taking the fight to
|terrorists". It was more of a sarcastic "we can handle it no
|need for you" thing. And the IDF does take action against
|the settlers. Just less so these days because of the
|extremists in the government. But as I already mentioned
|this fact and was downvoted for it, this government is not
|eternal.
|u/Virtual-Pension-991 - 5 hours
|
|No such thing as a system in a fucked up situation. Neither Israel
|nor Palestine has a handle on the situation in the West Bank, so
|they pursue their own interest instead. The crux is that the Israel
|government has gained so much advantage on this war, and they know
|how to fully take advantage of it.
|u/Big-Veterinarian2269 - 5 hours
|
|\> we don't need nor want a bunch of settlers to burn cars of innocent
|families. It looks like you do want it, seeing that you keep doing
|it.
|u/_TheBored_ - 4 hours
|
|The settlers are a small minority in Israel and the government
|supporting them is not eternal.
|u/PsychologyMiserable4 - 2 hours
|
|>not eternal. maybe not eternal yet, but for nearly 60 years,
|from the first illegal settlement until now there has never been a
|government unsupportive enough to put an end to the land grab and
|it doesn't look at all like change is on the horizon so i cant
|blame anyone for expecting eternity based on the reality the
|Israeli government and therefore voting population presented the
|world in the last decades.
|u/_TheBored_ - 2 hours
|
|The IDF fights them, arrests them, destroys and moves some
|settlements and stops them when they go too far, what else do
|you want them to do? Bomb the settlements? Declare war? That
|will be pretty much killing Israeli citizens that live there
|which are not innocent, but so are the palestinians. It is a
|cycle of violence. Each side hurts the other and then a response
|comes that kills more people including uninvolved. The
|settlers are there because of religious beliefs. Israel stops
|those who use violence even if it's a retaliation to palestinian
|violence. The Jewish state will not kill jews that live where
|they live as long as they don't hurt others for it. There are
|hundreds of thousands of Jews/Israelis in the west bank. Not all
|of them are violent settlers.
|u/Liel-this-is-me - 6 hours
|
|Preach brother
|u/Dapper-Percentage-64 - 6 hours
|
|And there is just no way they'll ever be able to figure out who it was ?
|Just no way ?
|u/NexexUmbraRs - 2 hours
|
|As an IDF soldier facing similar situations almost daily. They often
|arrive masked or with minors. IDF soldiers have no jurisdiction to
|arrest them, so they have to call for border patrol or police to
|arrest them. But once the soldiers arrive they already retreat and
|the police arrive only seeing the result and not the guilty parties.
|u/forsakenpear - 49 minutes
|
|Why don’t they just shoot any adult male? It’s safest to assume they
|are all terrorists.
|u/NexexUmbraRs - 46 minutes
|
|Great question. Because there are rules of engagement. For one as
|you mentioned, they need to be an adult male. Secondly they need
|to be threatening or having threatened ones life. Rocks aren't
|usually included in this unfortunately, unless they are big. In
|the event that they are considered to be a valid target, say they
|are holding or have used a molotov cocktail, they now need to be
|shot before losing track of them. Unfortunately, it happens before
|IDF show up so they didn't see who's responsible.
|u/Purple_Plus - 5 hours
|
|67 comments vs the usual. Just an observation.
|u/Zippier92 - 8 hours
|
|Masked settlers ? How many IDF in plainclothes and masks?
|u/tudorcat - 4 hours
|
|When the IDF says Israelis did something bad it's not disputed as fact;
|when the IDF says that school in Gaza they bombed was full of Hamas
|terrorists it's "can't believe anything the IDF says"
|u/PsychologyMiserable4 - 2 hours
|
|surprising? not at all. the IDF is fighting a war in gaza with many
|civilian casualties. Reasons/ Excuses/ Justifications for the
|bloodshed need to be presented. A war party has an interest in
|presenting some, whether true or made up doesn't matter, both save the
|face for now at least. A war party is inherently biased. The IDF is
|not in a war against the settlers (sadly). they are not a war party in
|this situation, on the contrary, they are on the same side, they are
|israel. it is not surprising, it is logical that accusations against
|the enemy party in a controversial war with many civilian casualties
|and suffering are seen far more sceptical and less trustworthy than
|accusations one side makes against itself. you would see the same in
|any other war, especially one as well known as this. hell, you would
|see the same thing if some hamas leader were to call out another hamas
|group for whatever atrocities they committed - no one would doubt that
|they happened.
|u/tudorcat - 49 minutes
|
|Didn't say it was surprising. I'm simply pointing out that people
|say things like "can't believe anything the IDF says" when they do,
|in fact, believe certain things the IDF says.
|u/jihround1 - 4 hours
|
|Strange how that works
|u/gman757 - 11 hours
|
|Not the first time, won’t be the last. Bet half those settlers were IDF
|on leave from the Gaza front. IDF are the real terrorists…
|u/NexexUmbraRs - 2 hours
|
|Settlers are doing this as civilians. The issue isn't the IDF. The
|issue is extremists which aren't properly punished.
|u/CptMcDickButt69 - 5 hours
|
|Im amazed at the middle eastern peoples' skill to always make "both
|sides bad" the only answer that doesnt feel wrong. Its all a fucking
|blood-soaked useless ass desert anyway, why would Israel tolerate or
|even support these idiots that push animosity everywhere when Israel
|could be the hegemon of the region through civilisation and with the
|help of foreign support with just a bit of moral discipline? I think i
|know the answer, but i also have the feeling the Sun down there has to
|hit different.
|u/frosthowler - 3 hours
|
|I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to suggest. When Israel was
|ruled by a fanatically pro-peace leadership, things were actually way
|worse. They don't support these idiots. Don't you see the headline?
|"IDF says" -- it's the IDF itself reporting on these barbarians'
|actions.
|u/CptMcDickButt69 - 3 hours
|
|Im pretty sure there wouldnt be clashes in the west bank if israeli
|settlers wouldnt be allowed to establish settlements there in the
|first place. Isolating two groups that hate each other would be the
|first sensible answer to calm the situation on that side of the
|country. As it stands though, its a one-sided isolation. The
|settlement topic is a welcome excuse for the conflict to not enter a
|stable base because its pushing a mostly black-and-white situation
|into (slightly) grey territory. Isolation, segregation and
|decisive military action against specified targets with some
|collaterals are one thing, but its not helping the conflict long-
|term if the defensive side gives opportunities for their idiots to
|pro-actively stoke the fire while they are protected by the umbrella
|of israels might.
|u/frosthowler - 1 hour
|
|> Im pretty sure there wouldnt be clashes in the west bank if
|israeli settlers wouldnt be allowed to establish settlements there
|in the first place. Palestinian terrorism predates the
|settlements and even the occupation of the West Bank. The
|settlements aren't helpful for reaching a peace deal, but they
|have little to do with violence by Palestinians. At no point have
|the Palestinians ever been content at owning just the West Bank
|and Gaza, even if you were to ethnically cleanse all the Jews from
|there and East Jerusalem. Even when they were offered precisely
|that, they demanded the right of millions of Palestinians to
|become citizens of Israel in order to impose a foreign Palestinian
|majority over Israeli democracy--because no Palestinian leader has
|ever de facto believed in anything but one Arab state from the
|r*ver to the sea. If you find a Palestinian telegram channel that
|reports on rockets being fired on "Tel Aviv" instead of "Occupied
|Tel Aviv", let me know. "Gaza Now" was adamant that all men in
|October 7 were "soldiers" and the women and children were
|"settlers". There are radical differences between what you, a
|westerner, thinks a settler is, and what a Palestinian thinks a
|settler is.
|u/NexexUmbraRs - 2 hours
|
|There are 2 types of settlements. The state approved ones, which
|usually have peaceful ideological residents, aren't the issue.
|They just protect their settlements and don't tend to push
|boundaries. Then there are new ones that are formed illegally.
|Where extremist settlers take land and start living there with no
|government approval. These are the settlers who typically go
|around causing issues and are occasionally (not always) violent.
|The existence of the former isn't an issue. The issue is when the
|illegal ones form and then they demand protection by the IDF, but
|simultaneously don't trust the IDF so they use violence and
|intimidation to create clashes for IDF to respond to which they
|think protects them? I know it doesn't make sense, they are
|idiotic extremists.
|u/warsongN17 - 12 hours
|
|Terrorists
|u/Dry-Season-522 - 13 hours
|
|If the people who committed October 7th were "protestors" then these
|people are just "settlers."
|u/yoppee - 12 hours
|
|This may be news but religious extremism come from every religion
|u/Zippier92 - 8 hours
|
|Good point - something about Abraham really gets people fired up!
|u/jwrose - 8 hours
|
|It was his instructions to make war on the unbelievers ….oh
|wait
|u/Schnitzelklopfer247 - 13 hours
|
|Yeah like your hamas friends are just cockroaches.
|u/Sad-Hawk-2885 - 17 hours
|
|I heard the Ayatola isn't doing well today.
|u/DanoPinyon - 16 hours
|
|What is an Ayatola? Is that something in Central America or Spain?
|u/Persian2PTConversion - 15 hours
|
|It's the Ayatollah of Rock n Rollah
|u/dchallenge - 13 hours
|
|Sadly, This may not be the place for mad max quotes .
|u/Gaius_Octavius_ - 27 minutes
|
|Congratulations Dearborn.
|