|
########################################################################
|u/_Norman_Bates - 17 hours
|
|It's only gonna get down from here
|u/kytheon - 16 hours
|
|USA: Biden over promised. True. Trump will promise nothing and
|deliver little.
|u/Jestercopperpot72 - 13 hours
|
|Wouldn't this more fall unto congress? I mean, they are the ones
|that make the call so sure Biden could of over promised but more
|likely, congress decided to say fuck it.
|u/GabeIsGone - 13 hours
|
|Not military aid. They can fund, but POTUS still leads the
|military. Congress passed Lend-Lease, allowing Biden to literally
|send everything and the kitchen sink - and they didn’t send a
|single dollar of equipment through that.
|u/Jestercopperpot72 - 11 hours
|
|I know the president can use Presidential Drawdown Authority,
|and with this he (Biden) approved 425 million in mid October. Is
|Zelensky saying they've only recieved half of that or half of
|what congress said we'd be sending? Not trying to be mordant,
|just trying to understand the political chess being played.
|u/GabeIsGone - 9 hours
|
|I was referring to Lend-Lease, which was passed early on and
|then never used a single time before it expired. Lend-Lease
|was essentially a blank check, and passed when Congress at
|least temporarily attempted to do right by Ukraine. When it
|initially passed Biden could have (both functionally and with
|public support) sent a metric fuckton. He didn’t. The PDA is
|separate and negotiated yearly; it wouldn’t have been
|affected.
|u/Rombom - 4 hours
|
|Lend-Lease was *not* a blank check - it would have required
|Ukraine to return used equipment *and reimburse spent
|equipment* - aka crippling debt. US Congress giving money
|to Ukraine is the actual blank check.
|u/Box_O_Donguses - 16 minutes
|
|I'm not sure how crippling that debt would be tbh, after
|WWII the US wrote off a shitload of the equipment that was
|given in lend-lease and charged rock bottom interest on
|very long term loans.
|u/NewfoundRepublic - 14 minutes
|
|Blank check? Fucking idiot lol
|u/Guinness - 9 hours
|
|I wish there was an in depth look at all of the different
|types of aid from the US and what has been sent. And also what
|remains. Either way, Biden better fucking FLOOD Ukraine with
|everything he can, _and_ everything he cannot. Use that
|presidential immunity to break the law, I don't fucking care.
|People are dying to secure democracy. There is nothing more
|American.
|u/knowsguy - 8 hours
|
|Biden better what, now? DO something? Something helpful?
|You're talking about the absolute fucking tool that was
|grinning like a kid who stole an ice cream truck while
|handing over our democracy? THAT Biden better fucking do
|something? The same guy that confirmed Clarence Thomas,
|hired Garland, and stayed in the race way too long? I hope
|you're not holding your breath. Biden failed us.
|u/idk_lets_try_this - 4 hours
|
|Are you seriously still pretending Biden has been useless?
|Sure he made mistakes by being a bit too cautious at times
|but he also did a lot of good stuff. But he has been slow
|in escalating aid to Ukraine, and in a way did it in a way
|that benefited the US most. But that’s not entirely on
|him. The main issue is not fighting back harder against
|internal corruption and lawlessness.
|u/Swimming_Mark7407 - 2 hours
|
|Look where that slow escalation got us in Ukraine?
|Escalation management is myth for dumbasses. It is
|seen as weekness and Ukrainians are paying a heavy price
|for what Biden is doing
|u/Jestercopperpot72 - 2 hours
|
|Again though, Biden requested The House come back in
|session early to pass more aid through. Johnson
|refused. By self proclaimed responsibility, Congress
|is to oversee the passage of law that would allocate
|funds. They did just that in April with Foreign
|Assistance Act think it was called. Of that, 60
|billion is allocated to Ukraine. That kind of money is
|not unilaterally decided upon, by the executive or
|their decree. It's by freakin design.
|u/Swimming_Mark7407 - 1 hour
|
|Bidens weak foreign policy is responsible for: *
|Not dettering Russia before they started the war. *
|Russia, China, Iran, North Korea forming a axis like
|alliance. * Iran restarting nuclear weapons programe
|and getting help with it from Russia. * North Korea
|restarting nuclear weapons programe and getting help
|with it from Russia. * Not doing anything to detter
|Maduro from stealing the election and jailing the
|opposition. * Not helping to contain the middle east,
|and being a pushover there. * Ukraine not receiving aid
|it needs from the US * US blocked allies from supplying
|or letting Ukraine use weapons for deep strikes - UK -
|no Storm shadow strikes on Russia, Sweden - No Gripens
|and no SAAB 18 for Ukraine, Denmark - 2022 no F16 for
|Ukraine, Germany - No Taurus for Ukraine, South Korea -
|Prevent military aid to Ukraine. This is all that Biden
|and his team did. * Revived nuclear proliferation
|problem by showing what happens to countries that dont
|have or have handed over their nukes. South Korea and
|Ukraine are discussing having Nukes. Biden has been
|catastrophic. He actively set the stage for Trump to do
|maximum damage to the world, not just internally to the
|US.
|u/oosamTCSPC - 15 minutes
|
|Biden did tell Russia to go ask help from China and
|Iran https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5058947/user-clip-
|biden-jokes-good-luck-china
|u/NewfoundRepublic - 11 minutes
|
|This would all happen regardless of who is President.
|Literally everything.
|u/Jestercopperpot72 - 2 hours
|
|I got you fam https://www.ukraineoversight.gov/Funding/
|u/ieatthosedownvotes - 12 hours
|
|Biden should send them a few dozen nukes. This war would be over
|real quick. Without Putin being able to dickwag his nukes
|around, NATO could rush the field.
|u/HarlaxtonLad27 - 12 hours
|
|You do understand Nuclear war? It totally destroys everything,
|radiation fallout effects last a bit longer than the blast
|itself. Russia has nukes too, and a detection system to
|counter launch any attack. China and North Korea are allies to
|Russia, I think any nuclear attack on Russia would drag them
|in, China also has nukes, so expect a few thrown from them. So
|let’s start a nuclear war, smart.
|u/Otherwise_Radish7459 - 6 hours
|
|That’s not how it works. People aren’t meeting Russia head
|on because they have nukes. If Ukraine had nukes, then we
|can talk about MAD between them and Russia. As of now,
|Russia is only able to be doing this because Ukraine doesn’t
|have nukes.
|u/HarlaxtonLad27 - 6 hours
|
|Yea like no one will ever use nukes if pushed to
|desperation or inevitable loss, who knows what would
|happen. Maybe Ukraine would use them first, if they had
|the opportunity. Would that make them right to use against
|Russia? If anyone thinks there will be a winner in a
|nuclear war they are dreaming.
|u/Otherwise_Radish7459 - 5 hours
|
|Of course, but the nukes are for ending the war, not
|starting the real one.
|u/HarlaxtonLad27 - 5 hours
|
|Oh ok, let’s find out then, what could go wrong.
|u/DikTaterSalad - 9 hours
|
|As much as a boner imagining vlad getting vaporized in nuclear
|hellfire. This would start a uncontrollable chain reaction and
|turn the planet into Metro Exodus.
|u/Jestercopperpot72 - 2 hours
|
|MAD is BAD dude.
|u/nature_half-marathon - 12 hours
|
|That wouldn’t be seen as an escalation at all… We took
|Ukraine’s nukes away in the first place.
|u/Kelsier_TheSurvivor - 11 hours
|
|Who’s we? The Russians are who took Ukraine’s nukes from
|them, with the agreement being, Russia never comes back.
|u/Kagenlim - 7 hours
|
|And Russia invaded Ukraine so that treaty is void So we
|should give Ukraine their nukes back imo
|u/hungoverlord - 12 hours
|
|on the condtion THAT... on the condition THAT......??? do
|you know the condition?
|u/Tweedle_DeeDum - 11 hours
|
|>Another key point was that U.S. State Department lawyers
|made a distinction between "security guarantee" and
|"security assurance", referring to the security guarantees
|that were desired by Ukraine in exchange for non-
|proliferation. "Security guarantee" would have implied the
|use of military force in assisting its non-nuclear parties
|attacked by an aggressor (such as Article 5 of the North
|Atlantic Treaty for NATO members) while "security
|assurance" would simply specify the non-violation of these
|parties' territorial integrity. In the end, a statement
|was read into the negotiation record that the (according
|to the U.S. lawyers) lesser sense of the English word
|"assurance" would be the sole implied translation for all
|appearances of both terms in all three language versions
|of the statement.[19]
|https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
|u/TheKanten - 11 hours
|
|Because Russia literally is not escalating whatsoever on
|their own. Those North Koreans are just there on an exchange
|program.
|u/parttimegamer93 - 12 hours
|
|How does that work? Why do we think Putin wouldn't just
|continue to escalate?
|u/TheKanten - 11 hours
|
|Because he's just going to *stop* otherwise?
|u/jtinz - 12 hours
|
|Forgotten about Trump's first impeachment?
|u/Jestercopperpot72 - 11 hours
|
|I assure you, I've forgotten none of that.
|u/SlipperyPigHole - 9 hours
|
|Trump will promise everything and deliver nothing. That's been his
|modus operandi for a long time. His businesses failures have
|proved that, his last term as president proved that. He's a conman
|and a grifter. His next target just happens to be the entire
|country.
|u/pineapplepizzabest - 14 hours
|
|>Trump will promise nothing and deliver little. I'm sure it will
|be the opposite. Promise the world and deliver nothing.
|u/phred_666 - 13 hours
|
|Trump will promise to help Russia
|u/zeroconflicthere - 9 hours
|
|>promise nothing and deliver less Fixed you post
|u/Sir-Knollte - 6 hours
|
|He started weak but at least it went downhill from there...
|u/Arialwalker - 6 hours
|
|Better than giving false hope.
|u/kytheon - 2 hours
|
|As if Trump never makes impossible promises.
|u/BrockSamsonLikesButt - 5 hours
|
|“Little” is not what I would call a Russian victory over Ukraine!
|And that’s what Trump’s gonna deliver, in effect.
|u/grif-1582 - 3 hours
|
|By promising nothing will avoid over or under promised. Neat and
|tidy.
|u/Parmeloens - 1 hour
|
|Nah he's going to promise nothing and take from you.
|u/hogester79 - 1 hour
|
|Technically Trump promised to end it in 24 hours… let’s see how
|little of that he actually achieves…
|u/BrandDC - 12 hours
|
|Why would Trump deliver little if he promised nothing? Moron logic.
|u/kytheon - 12 hours
|
|It's not Trump doing the delivering. If Trump says "tomorrow we
|deport all Mexicans" he promises something big. In reality, it
|will only be a few. He promises a wall. Only some of it was built.
|He will promise to end the war in a day. It won't. And finally,
|he will promise not a penny to Ukraine anymore. But that's
|impossible and so some will still be delivered. That's what I
|meant.
|u/narium - 11 hours
|
|Unironically the US MIC will save the day. The war in Ukraine is
|too profitable for them and they will apply pressure to keep the
|shipments flowing.
|u/zeCrazyEye - 10 hours
|
|They can always sell to Russia instead.
|u/DikTaterSalad - 9 hours
|
|Probably sell to both, knowing him.
|u/niardnom - 8 hours
|
|~~promise nothing and deliver little.~~ promise the immediate
|transfer of Ukraine to Russian administration with US funded
|reparations, a withdraw of all US troops from Europe, and a pledge
|to not operate within the Russian sphere of influence.
|u/MassiveBoner911_3 - 13 hours
|
|Any aid not sent by January is not being sent at all.
|u/puffferfish - 11 hours
|
|Yup, Europe is going to have to step it up.
|u/nevermindaboutthaton - 10 hours
|
|European countries have provided the most aid in total (military,
|financial and humanitarian), while the United States has by far
|provided the most military aid.[5][6] Most of the US funding
|supports American industries who produce weapons and military
|equipment.
|u/Practical-Ball1437 - 7 hours
|
|This is the thing. If the US announces $20B in aid, that's $20B
|going to American defense contractors to provide $12B of materiel
|to the US army who put it in a warehouse to replace $4B of 30 year
|old stuff that they take out and give to Ukraine.
|u/printzonic - 1 hour
|
|That not true, military aid is 56 billion from the US and 53
|billion from Europe, that is not "by far" anything.
|u/JimmyCarters-ghost - 8 hours
|
|Europe is going to have to step up and fill the gap left by the
|US.
|u/JoaquinBenoit - 8 hours
|
|There’s still European and NATO nations such as Slovenia, Croatia,
|Luxembourg, Portugal, Italy, and Canada that have yet to step up.
|u/Gamestoreguy - 7 hours
|
|Canada has provided over 12 billion in aid.
|u/JoaquinBenoit - 7 hours
|
|Canada has yet to hit the 2% NATO threshold.
|u/Gamestoreguy - 7 hours
|
|Isn’t going to happen, doesn’t mean we haven’t provided a
|significant amount of aid.
|u/mikka1 - 6 hours
|
|> Croatia Croatia is a country with 1/10th of the population of
|Ukraine and probably half or less of Ukraine GDP even during the
|wartime. I doubt there's much room to "step up" anything.
|u/JoaquinBenoit - 6 hours
|
|Croatia isn’t hitting the 2% defense spending recommendation.
|It isn’t based on population.
|u/YourFaceIsMelting - 5 hours
|
|It's slightly under the 2% Croatia usually hovers around
|1.8% but went over 2% 3 years ago
|https://n1info.hr/english/news/nato-croatia-exceeds-2-of-
|gdp-for-defence-first-in-allocating-for-equipment/
|u/JimmyCarters-ghost - 8 hours
|
|What about other “first world” countries like Australia, Japan,
|South Korea.
|u/YourFaceIsMelting - 5 hours
|
|Japan has given more than 9 billion in aid. Not sure about
|Australia, I don't think it's in the billions but they have
|given military equipment to Ukraine.
|u/scanningthehorizon - 7 hours
|
|Australia has done over $1b in aid. Canada & Japan more than
|10 times that. Italy has provided aid, and taken huge numbers
|of refugees. Not sure why most of these countries are being
|listed here, you can Google any of them to find their
|contributions.
|u/JimmyCarters-ghost - 2 hours
|
|That doesn’t seem like very much.
|u/Docccc - 2 hours
|
|this is a nice list:
|https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-
|to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/ some countries
|should be ashamed, Australia being one of them
|u/MarioSewers - 2 hours
|
|Isn't Australia burying military gear (helis & tanks) rather
|than donate them?
|u/JoaquinBenoit - 8 hours
|
|South Korea likely will step up more in munition sales with
|the DPRK getting more involved.
|u/JimmyCarters-ghost - 8 hours
|
|So nothing so far? Lame
|u/paris86 - 3 hours
|
|Europe is split. Its basically Britain and anyone who borders Russia
|with the rest being ambivalent at best and downright pro Russian in
|some cases.
|u/DougosaurusRex - 3 hours
|
|Aid alone is not going to alleviate the manpower issues, they’ll
|have to intervene somewhat more directly if they want to
|meaningfully help, but they would rather Ukraine fall that get
|involved, all west countries would honestly, sadly.
|u/StrikingExcitement79 - 1 hour
|
|Why would Biden sell out Ukraine to Russia?
|u/_Norman_Bates - 1 hour
|
|What?
|u/Free-Atmosphere6714 - 42 minutes
|
|No they'll get 100%after January. Just 100% of 0.
|u/Soundwave_13 - 11 hours
|
|Sadly I have to agree…
|u/GuardianKnight - 9 hours
|
|Maybe it should. Everytime he gets something from the US, he gets
|into media saying he didn't get more. I don't think he understands
|that supporting someone does not mean handling everything for them.
|u/_Norman_Bates - 6 hours
|
|Ukrainians are the ones fighting. He is commenting on not getting
|the amount that was promised or that is needed.
|u/manojsaini007 - 11 hours
|
|Yes dude is fighting war on aid. Thinking it will continue forever
|u/unreasonable-trucker - 9 hours
|
|*defending their peacefull nation from brutal aggression and
|subjugation by atrocity on aid. FTFY
|u/manojsaini007 - 4 hours
|
|Defend from your own money then.
|u/Calwhy - 13 hours
|
|For those who want to look further, here are a couple articles along
|with the actual voting by the Committee on Appropriations on HR bill
|8035. Make of this what you will. [https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-
|aid-bill-republicans-senators-voted-against-full-
|list-1893529](https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-aid-bill-republicans-
|senators-voted-against-full-list-1893529)
|[https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20240214-us-house-speaker-johnson-
|blocks-vote-ukraine-israel-taiwan-aid-passed-senate-donald-trump-
|republicans](https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20240214-us-house-
|speaker-johnson-blocks-vote-ukraine-israel-taiwan-aid-passed-senate-
|donald-trump-republicans) [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-
|stalled-u-s-aid-for-ukraine-exemplifies-gops-softening-stance-on-
|russia](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-stalled-u-s-aid-for-
|ukraine-exemplifies-gops-softening-stance-on-russia) [https://rules.hou
|se.gov/bill/118/hr-8035](https://rules.house.gov/bill/118/hr-8035)
|u/brelincovers - 8 hours
|
||| || |8|Version 1|[Greene (GA)](https://amendments-rules.house.gov/am
|endments/Conscript%20amendment240417145722857.pdf)|Republican|Requires
|all Members of Congress who vote in favor of this Act to conscript in
|the Ukrainian Military.|
|u/Calwhy - 7 hours
|
|Cute. Real cute. Is that your way of saying "put your money where
|your mouth is"? Or is it just another tidbit of info?
|u/brelincovers - 7 hours
|
|No I just thought it was wild that a republican made this a
|provision for all those in favor of signing the bill. It’s
|ridiculous
|u/Calwhy - 7 hours
|
|My apologies then. This has just been a roller coaster of
|experiences, and I'm no longer sure what I feel about everything
|going on. Again, apologies about that.
|u/nope0712 - 1 hour
|
|Oh, so just the usual gaggle of mentally challenged.
|u/ToothsomeBirostrate - 8 minutes
|
|Called both my senators to support that bill, yet they're both on the
|list. Feels bad man. A rare moment of silver lining lately is that
|the new Republican Senate Leader might still be fairly pro-Ukraine, so
|they could help push more funding bills over the finish line in the
|next few years.
|u/sumregulaguy - 17 hours
|
|Warranted or not, with Biden admin on its way out, it makes sense for
|Ukraine to shit on on it to give orange guy an opportunity to show how
|strong he is and have an easier time selling the idea of helping Ukraine
|to his conspiracy nut voter base.
|u/JellyBelly6980 - 16 hours
|
|That’s actually the same reasoning the Polish president came up with
|u/woodelvezop - 16 hours
|
|It happens a lot with administration changes. People will talk
|poorly of the old administration to suck up to the new one.
|u/the8bit - 16 hours
|
|Basic politics. Generally you would see less because it's a game
|everyone knows, so the words don't sway leaders much. But Trump is
|too vain or not smart enough to understand the game.
|u/Dark_Wing_350 - 14 hours
|
|Base it on facts. Maybe Trump will do better. Maybe Biden sucked
|ass. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy that they're "playing
|some game" and Zelenskyy is unjustly badmouthing the outgoing
|administration, maybe Zelenskyy's comments are warranted here
|but he was just too afraid to make them when he wasn't sure if
|Biden/Harris would still be in government.
|u/S0LO_Bot - 14 hours
|
|Not when Trump has been throwing around the idea of abandoning
|Ukraine and Biden’s biggest limiting factor has been
|Republicans in Congress. Trump is unpredictable and Ukraine
|is desperately hoping he will reverse course. Still, Tulsi
|Gabbard (who believes in dropping all aid to Ukraine) in the
|cabinet is not a good sign for Ukraine.
|u/Practical-Ball1437 - 7 hours
|
|If trump goes to putin and tells him how he has decided the
|war will end, and putin refuses until he's taken back Kursk,
|trump might get pissed off and give Ukraine the ability to
|"end" the war instead of putin. Or he might say that he
|never said anything about Ukraine and he's never heard of it
|and didn't know there was a war there in the first place.
|u/Fiddleys - 5 hours
|
|It more likely trump ends the way by aiding russia then
|doing anything to putin. trump never once said he would
|end the war in Ukraines favor.
|u/Practical-Ball1437 - 5 hours
|
|I agree. I think the best chance for Ukraine is russia
|taking a position that would annoy turnmp or make him
|look weak. Like saying that they own him and he has to
|do what they say.
|u/Krail - 10 hours
|
|> Maybe Trump will do better. The man spends so much time
|sucking up to Putin, what would make you think he'd actually
|willingly *help* Ukraine fight Russia?
|u/the8bit - 13 hours
|
|You see I know what you said is untrue because I read the news
|regularly
|u/dfresa1 - 5 hours
|
|It's not a conspiracy. Wtf? It's literally just politics.
|u/plO_Olo - 9 hours
|
|Glad you are not in any executive positions. When your entire
|country depends on another - the ‘game’ is quite clear.
|u/Spokraket - 14 hours
|
|Still they did bare minimum from keeping Ukraine from going under.
|u/JellyBelly6980 - 16 hours
|
|Ah that makes sense. I did not think about it like that
|u/Cookie_Volant - 11 hours
|
|It definitely helps that they always do a terrible job when in
|office
|u/strimholov - 13 hours
|
|Polish president was strongly pro-Trump before the elections too.
|It's not the reason
|u/CSI_Tech_Dept - 8 hours
|
|Polish president is from PiS that was rooting for trump, he even met
|him when he was just a civilian and literally in the middle of his
|criminal trial in NY. PiS party while officially say they are
|against Russia, they also are against the west siding with Orban and
|current GOP. I think it's mostly due to corruption, but they also
|have many members with questionable ties to Russia).
|u/pirat314159265359 - 13 hours
|
|“Bidens hands were too small to deliver a big aid package.”
|u/itsmehonest - 16 hours
|
|He has been starting to feed the ego a bit almost egging Trump on to
|show the world how 'tough' he is which tbh isn't a bad idea at all
|Best case Trump bites and hurls and at them, worst case.. things stay
|as they are with US aid dwindling with Europe still giving them some
|u/strimholov - 13 hours
|
|For a long time Ukraine has been reporting that Biden is lying and
|delivering a lot less than he screams about to press. It's not a new
|thing that changed after the elections.
|u/bazilbt - 13 hours
|
|I haven't heard much about this. I knew we under delivered but I
|heard it was mostly production bottlenecks.
|u/strimholov - 12 hours
|
|Here is for example Zelenskyi's quote from September 13th:
|>*Zelenskyy: many promised Western weapons still not delivered to
|Ukraine* [https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/09/13/zelenskyy-
|many-promised-western-weapons-still-not-delivered-to-
|ukraine/](https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/09/13/zelenskyy-many-
|promised-western-weapons-still-not-delivered-to-ukraine/)
|u/hootblah1419 - 11 hours
|
|September 13th isn't a long time. But this is also completely
|forgetting the 12 months the republicans refused to approve
|ukraine aid
|u/Physicaque - 1 hour
|
|The war is 2.5 years long. Republicans were blocking aid for
|0.5 year. The rest is on Biden.
|u/AZWxMan - 9 hours
|
|This is the basic issue. Zelensky has complained often in hopes
|to speed this up. I think there's some politicking in trying to
|galvanize the public in the US and European nations to pressure
|our politicians to do more to help Ukraine, and overall he's been
|successful, but he's still only received barely enough to keep his
|nation alive.
|u/treefox - 10 hours
|
|It makes sense for everybody for Ukraine to emphasize its
|independence from the US. “Biden won’t give me half of what we
|agreed upon” sounds like the US is just being a greedy third-party
|arms dealer while “the missiles are coming so fast I don’t even know
|what to do with half of them and I didn’t even ask for tanks” sounds
|more like the US is driving the whole war effort.
|u/AZWxMan - 9 hours
|
|There's a lot of bureaucracy involved in the procurement and to some
|degree production of needed weapons. So, even though all the aid
|hasn't been delivered, the wheels are slowly turning and unless it
|gets reversed by Trump should eventually arrive. Should they find a
|way to speed it up, should they take some of the limits off of
|certain weapons use? Yes, but Biden's not lying, there's just a
|difference between what's been approved and what's been sent.
|u/lglthrwty - 9 hours
|
|Equipment takes a long time to build, refurbish, and ship. There are
|other political reasons as well. Zelensky was accusing Poland of
|withholding MIG-29s because Poland has asked for allies to step up
|air patrols in their airspace due to them donating a large portion
|of their air fleet to Ukraine. As no country has yet to step up for
|Poland, Poland has not yet delivered all of the MIG-29s. Other
|things, like new Javelin missiles and Patriot missiles, need to be
|manufactured. The US alone donated over 8,000 Javelin missiles. Out
|of production howitzers are now at critically low levels for the
|USMC as hundreds were donated. Those old Leopard 2A4s Spain has
|pledged were essentially mothballed. They have to largely be rebuilt
|to be restored to service. Germany sold them for scrap prices to
|Spain in the early 2000s because they were largely scrap. Spain was
|to use them for training and spare parts to help set up production
|of the tanks in Spain. It takes a long time to rebuilt a fleet of
|tanks. So yes, not all of them have arrived in Ukraine yet. They're
|being rebuilt as quick as possible. But if you read the news
|articles you will make it seem like Poland, the US and Spain are
|intentionally lying and withholding equipment for no reason and not
|due to being at capacity. Or in Poland's case, a very reasonable
|request considering they share a border with Russia.
|u/DougosaurusRex - 3 hours
|
|Honestly as a Leftist who votes democrat, they should shit on Biden.
|Two months left in office and he can’t let Ukraine strike into Russia?
|Fucking coward move, yet Israel can bomb wherever with impunity in
|Gaza.
|u/FarawayFairways - 11 hours
|
|"Biden doesn't supply weapons. Sad. People say he's the worst weapons
|supplier ever. They do, they do. It's true. No one supplies weapons
|better than me. I have all the best weapons. Big beautiful weapons.
|You'll love them".
|u/Steamrolled777 - 8 hours
|
|"I know more about supplying weapons than anyone else alive" - Musk
|u/rmttw - 13 hours
|
|He won the popular vote and we’re still talking about his voters like
|fringe nutjobs lol.
|u/probablyseriousmaybe - 12 hours
|
|Mostly a reddit thing.
|u/ilazul - 9 hours
|
|yeah but this is the 'good' echo chamber detached from reality.
|u/Parmeloens - 1 hour
|
|There's quite a few echo chambers in this place related to
|multiple topics.
|u/sharoon12 - 12 hours
|
|you're right they're just regular nutjobs now.
|u/RainbowRedYellow - 12 hours
|
|It's sometimes easier to think that than acknowledge that rape, sex
|trafficking and racism are virtues now.
|u/rmttw - 8 hours
|
|Do you think the people dying in Biden’s wars care about
|allegations?
|u/Common-Concentrate-2 - 7 hours
|
|"Biden's wars" ? Someone's been hitting the Newsmax a little
|too hard
|u/Dealan79 - 7 hours
|
|1. Biden has no wars. Ukraine was invaded by Russia, and Biden
|is the head of neither. The conflict in Israel is not only not
|Biden's responsibility, all parties involved hate him. 2. A jury
|found Trump liable for sexual assault, that's not an allegation.
|Another jury found him guilty of felony election finance fraud.
|Again, not an allegation. He was a convicted felon and
|adjudicated rapist at the time of the election. 3. The sex
|trafficking claims against Gaetz remain an allegation, but the
|only reason he wasn't indicted is that federal prosecutors
|decided that the witnesses against him wouldn't be seen as
|credible because they were a sex worker and a convicted sex
|trafficker. The former was his alleged victim, and the second
|his alleged accomplice in the crime for which there is a massive
|digital trail of evidence. That's some incredibly bizarre logic
|that seems designed on its face to protect a politician from
|prosecution.
|u/Noperdidos - 2 hours
|
|If the shoe fits?
|u/mrmicawber32 - 10 hours
|
|They aren't fringe, but they are nutjobs
|u/Jumpeee - 11 hours
|
|They might not be fringe, but that doesn't cancel out the nutjob
|part. But what do I know, I'm not an American :)
|u/Rampant_Butt_Sex - 7 hours
|
|Biden has been weak on this conflict the entire time to the point that
|its been frustrating. Like, its one thing to be slow with aid, its
|another to hamstring how they use the aid in their own territory. Why
|the fuck should we care what happens if UKR strikes deep into RU?
|Biden had every opportunity to be a decisive leader but instead acted
|the careful, meek merchant. Meanwhile, Israel bombs Gaza and he sends
|aid free of questions.
|u/Islanduniverse - 4 hours
|
|Let’s see how that works out for them.
|u/Illustrious-Fold-441 - 10 minutes
|
|Lol, you guys are ridiculous. You’ll really invent a narrative like
|this rather than admit that democrats in your country might not be
|doing everything right all the time. “Oh no he’s not saying that OUR
|people did anything wrong, he’s just using it as a way to manipulate
|YOU idiots.”
|u/Worth-Ad-2795 - 15 hours
|
|clown response, american people are suffering they see the money being
|allocated and are like “wtf” it also appears the money being allocated
|is not properly accounted for. this statement + the 7th failed audit
|of the pentagon? are you that dumb
|u/rexus_mundi - 12 hours
|
|Someone doesn't actually know how foreign aid works.
|u/Worth-Ad-2795 - 12 hours
|
|would love to learn, what am i missing?
|u/rexus_mundi - 12 hours
|
|We aren't sending cash. Most of it are weapons slated to be
|decommissioned; it's cheaper to ship them overseas. What "money"
|we send is more of a gift card to be spent on American products
|that feeds back into the American economy. There are small
|exceptions of course, but the overwhelming majority operates in
|this fashion.
|u/MassiveKratomDump - 14 hours
|
|Not really. The angry folks are maga/republicans. Fox Entertainment
|and the GOP told them it was right. The type who think Biden was
|writing actual checks to Zelensky. Most of the stuff was surplus
|weaponry past it's prime. It has fed the US military industrial
|complex. Most Americans with common sense understand these things.
|You can't argue with these people. Pointless. Have a good weekend!
|u/sharramon - 13 hours
|
|Y'know if I were Trump I would just lie that Joe had been writing
|blank checks. But once I got into the office I convinced the
|Ukrainians to take our old weaponry off our hands instead and even
|had them pay us for them in the form of loans. And since we needed
|new weapons, we used this Ukrainian money to create American jobs
|for new weapons. Bringing much needed manufacturing back I mean
|that's already the gist of what's happening, but his base is so
|removed from knowing things that they'd eat that right up
|u/EenGeheimAccount - 13 hours
|
|I really don't understand why Biden didn't put it like this in
|the first place. I think he is just too stuck in the
|traditional way of doing politics that he is unable to think on
|how the public is actually responding to his words.
|u/bazilbt - 13 hours
|
|He is very old. Old men are notorious for not changing their
|ways or self reflection.
|u/Malphael - 14 hours
|
|We're using expired munitions to turn a generation of young
|Russian men into red mist without risking American lives and the
|Republicans of all people are the ones complaining. What a world.
|u/kindanormle - 15 hours
|
|Account created 2 years ago, barely 200 karma, auto generated name,
|suddenly has political opinions. Putler, try harder.
|u/pickleparty16 - 10 hours
|
|Republicans aren't going to suddenly start helping regular people,
|bub
|u/nature_half-marathon - 12 hours
|
|Yup. It’s reverse psychology. Anything to make Trump look good to come
|into save the day. I can even see Biden promoting the idea. “Hey. Make
|me look bad guy by saying I’m not sending the money as promised and
|Trump will want to do the complete opposite.”
|u/Kingofthewin - 17 hours
|
|I'm surprised they got half. Bidens pledge was to send old stuff and
|build new stuff for the us. Probably what I imagine is if they don't
|have the new stuff they're not sending the old stuff just yet. Plus
|the logistics of traveling heavy and expensive equipment across multiple
|countries into a war zone is difficult.
|u/AVonGauss - 15 hours
|
|It’s literally what the US military does on a regular basis. Whether
|its doing regular rotations to/from Europe or invading a country a
|month after they decide to do so.
|u/thedarkpolitique - 14 hours
|
|Honestly! Logistics would be the least of concerns.
|u/evilbunnyofdoom - 1 hour
|
|US logistics is not the problem. But they had a very big problem
|getting the stuff via German railways.
|u/ImJustGuessing045 - 10 hours
|
|They do it for themselves lads. Not for anyone else.
|u/pkennedy - 16 hours
|
|I would be incredibly surprised if there weren't several teams
|dedicated to this movement and have been for for the last couple of
|years. They must have everything positioned to move it quickly if
|need be, aka this situation.
|u/LurkStatusOn - 15 hours
|
|No doubt. The Berlin Airlift proved their capabilities.
|u/kindanormle - 15 hours
|
|They didn't get even half, Zelensky was being generous with that
|statement. >Zelensky clarified that it is about U.S. military aid to
|Ukraine. >“When I say half, I mean less, I'm talking weapons...
|u/niardnom - 8 hours
|
|Biden refused to put US boots on the ground or US planes in the sky to
|end the war quickly because he was scared of starting WWIII. This was
|not the best move and Ukraine will lose the war. If they are lucky,
|they will be able to keep the lands they currently control. If they
|are unlucky, the US will turn a blind eye as Russia installs a puppet
|to replace Zelensky.
|u/theme69 - 14 hours
|
|The amount of republicans that thought we have been sending Ukraine
|pallets of cash to chuck at Russians is both astonishing and in no way
|surprising
|u/DiZial - 13 hours
|
|Do you think they haven't? The US has sent over $30 billion in
|financial aid. Just because the majority of support is in the form
|of older military supplies, that doesn't mean its the only aid
|that's been sent
|u/theme69 - 13 hours
|
|Is that what I said? Maybe I wasn’t clear but many people I’ve
|spoken too seem to think they were ONLY sending Ukraine cash which
|could otherwise be used for things they pretend to care about.
|When the majority of what we’re sending is not cash
|u/nullstring - 9 hours
|
|Yes... It is what you said...
|u/smoothie4564 - 9 hours
|
|> Bidens pledge was to send old stuff and build new stuff for the us.
|That is pretty much what everyone does when playing HOI4.
|u/44Ridley - 8 hours
|
|America's allies and dependents will be watching this closely. Excuses
|are great but if you can't deliver the goods after promising them,
|then your reliability and leadership come into question. IMO America
|is an unreliable and quite shrewd partner, Britain, fighting alone
|during WWII learned this when bargaining for aid on its knees.
|Political division at home and insane elections allow America the
|convenient excuse to blame the opposition, walk away from its
|commitments and shrug over its failure to deliver.
|u/Few-Bar-7752 - 14 hours
|
|soon will receive only thoughts and prayers
|u/kopecs - 7 hours
|
|I heard, that Amber Heard just pledges to donate as well.
|u/DougosaurusRex - 3 hours
|
|What Biden is doing now is almost thoughts and prayers since he
|doesn’t have to worry about being elected or getting Kamala elected
|now. Dude should be letting Ukraine strike in Russia.
|u/neuroscience_nerd - 7 hours
|
|He just needs to say “trump can do it better. His aid package is huge.”
|🤣
|u/Parmeloens - 1 hour
|
|There's a big bulge.
|u/DougosaurusRex - 3 hours
|
|Meanwhile Ukraine sends fucking wheat flour to Gaza to help feed
|everyone there while they themselves are at fucking war and we can’t
|supply Ukraine with what we promised So fucking disgusted with my
|country and really let down by Biden’s foreign policy.
|u/Dikkelul27 - 2 hours
|
|it's way better for ukraine to keep the economy somewhat going, like
|what is that logic do you expect people who aren't fighting to just
|not work?
|u/Dangerous-Work-6433 - 27 minutes
|
|Times are changing
|u/standard-protocol-79 - 1 hour
|
|The US foreign policy is bipartisan
|u/baby_budda - 16 hours
|
|Where are those long-range rockets biden?
|u/strimholov - 13 hours
|
|Biden would rather scrap them for metal than let Ukraine defend its
|people
|u/jameskchou - 15 hours
|
|Not surprised
|u/arielzao150 - 10 hours
|
|Come on guys, how are we going to blame Trump for this?
|u/ovscrider - 12 hours
|
|Good. Europe can step up and do their share when there is issues in
|Europe instead of always leaning on the US like has happened for decades
|u/Crafty-Photograph-18 - 7 hours
|
|Well, yes, but actually no. Ukraine had given up its nuclear weapons
|in exchange for guarantees of its safety from the UK, the US, and,
|well, Russia. Not Europe. Google "the Budapest Memorandum"
|u/Lysadra - 3 hours
|
|Thank you! This always bothers me. Of course Europe should help. Of
|course Europe should have a stronger army themselves. However, it
|was the US that promised to help in such an event, not Europe.
|u/eggressive - 1 hour
|
|The Budapest Memorandum of 1994 provided security assurances, not
|guarantees, to Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan in exchange for
|their renunciation of nuclear weapons. The U.S., U.K., and Russia
|pledged to respect their sovereignty, refrain from the use of force,
|and consult if threats arose. However, these assurances were
|political rather than legally binding, meaning there was no
|obligation for military intervention. So a lot of words, no actual
|pledges. And it has been violated by Russia itself.
|u/Crafty-Photograph-18 - 1 hour
|
|Yeah, we are well aware that the Memorandum was pretty much built
|to give you the opportunity to screw us over. However, it's the
|one document that actually tells that the US does owe us one. And
|it's the one document Americans don't like to talk about. It is
|the agreement that is clearly not being followed. And it is the
|one document that shows the world that such agreements don't work,
|and the only way for a country to stay safe is to be able to
|destroy anybody who might endanger their sovereignty
|u/eggressive - 58 minutes
|
|“and the only way for a country to stay safe is to be able to
|destroy anybody who might endanger their sovereignty” The human
|history in a nutshell.
|u/Crafty-Photograph-18 - 57 minutes
|
|Yep. History repeats itself. Too bad nobody cares until it
|gets to *their* home
|u/Crafty-Photograph-18 - 1 hour
|
|>So a lot of words, no actual pledges. Exactly. They gave us
|assurances. Now, they don't give a fuck, and the document is built
|in a way that it doesn't punish them for not doing what it telles
|them to do. It is shit, but it is what we could afford at that
|time. And it is being violated
|u/surreal3561 - 32 minutes
|
|Google “the Budapest Memorandum” to see there are no guarantees,
|only assurances. While similar, they are extremely different in
|context of such memorandums and legal documents. Nobody picks words
|and phrasing accidentally when writing it. Assurance (noun): a
|positive declaration intended to give confidence; a promise.
|Guarantee (noun): a formal assurance (typically in writing) that
|certain conditions will be fulfilled.
|u/Crafty-Photograph-18 - 30 minutes
|
|Yrs, I know. It is pretty obvious that the intent was to screw us
|over from the very beginning
|u/surreal3561 - 25 minutes
|
|If you know, then why are you intentionally spreading lies by
|using the wrong terms?
|u/Crafty-Photograph-18 - 17 minutes
|
|Well, the word used in the Ukrainian text of the memorandum is
|"зобов'язання", and it carries just as much power as the
|slightly incorrect English translation. That word
|"зобов'язання" means what you describe as "guarantees, not
|assurances". I've already said that focument is worded like
|shit. Still, whatever that is that is written there is not
|being followed, be it assurances or guarantees
|u/44Ridley - 8 hours
|
|It's the only way forward. America is not a reliable partner and
|cannot be depended upon when the chips are down. There's nothing
|worse than some cunt who talks a big game but can't deliver.
|u/JimmyCarters-ghost - 8 hours
|
|Americans have been telling Europe to get its shit together for
|years and years at this point.
|u/mokitaco - 3 hours
|
|Yea now it’s not just words but actions lol
|u/doomblackdeath - 3 hours
|
|And there's nothing worse than telling someone over and over and
|over and over and over again to do something, only to be completely
|ignored, and then they not only cry in panic when it happens, but
|they blame you for the very thing you warned them about. I simply
|can't understand why Europe isn't a priority anymore for the US
|since the beginning of the Obama administration. /s But by all
|means, keep insulting the US and Americans every chance you get,
|both online and in person, as you have for at least two decades,
|especially when you have no other alternative aside from some
|federalist pipe dream that will never happen in the EU for at least
|a century. That's surely a winning strategy. I mean, it's not like
|they're going to vote for some orange cult of personality ambivalent
|towards Europe, right?
|u/Just-Signature-3713 - 14 hours
|
|I just realized Zelensky will just flatter Trump to get what he wants
|u/Dababolical - 10 hours
|
|They have to do whatever they can to survive. I don't really blame
|them.
|u/rmgxy - 11 hours
|
|As would anybody else. They want to defend their land, there's no
|pride to hide behind when your city is rubble.
|u/Siestatime46 - 17 hours
|
|No shock there. Biden has done all he could to keep them from losing,
|and to keep them from winning. It’s inexplicable.
|u/KrissyKrave - 14 hours
|
|Yes it was biden who was doing that. Not congress…. All biden.
|Totally.
|u/Brandulak - 10 hours
|
|Congress approved land-lease in the first months of invasion when
|political will to support Ukraine was the strongest. So in early
|2022 Biden had all the authority to send everything he wanted.
|However he simply let it all expire without sending a single penny
|via this programme. Congress started blocking the limited 'non-
|escalation' packages of aid only on 2nd year of the war. Which is
|very bad, don't get me wrong. But overall, it's the Biden's way of
|dealing with this crisis that led us to where we're now.
|u/Striking_Name2848 - 10 hours
|
|Congress didn't stop Biden from sending cluster munitions or ATACMS
|using his presidential drawdown authority. So why did Ukraine beg
|for this forever and only receive after it after taking heavy
|losses.
|u/EntertainerVirtual59 - 3 hours
|
|ATACMs were sent after the US started actually producing the
|replacement. ATACMs are out of production since 2007 so any that
|were sent without the replacement being ready was a degradation of
|US capabilities.
|u/Striking_Name2848 - 1 hour
|
|After the first ATACMS were used, it turned out they were
|expired already, so already slated for destruction. And what
|exactly does the US need ATACMS for in the near future? Fire
|them from Taiwan over to China? Unlikely.
|u/kozak_ - 13 hours
|
|Congress, both sides, has been asking the administration what the
|end game is and crickets...
|u/GothGirlStink - 9 hours
|
|I mean, its not the fault of a country 12,000 miles away at all
|actually. The EU is 30 countries and they're right next door.
|u/niardnom - 8 hours
|
|No, he stopped short of direct US support due to his fears of starting
|WWIII. He could have also actually penalized countries evading
|sanctions, particularly India and China.
|u/Normatyvas - 14 hours
|
|Good summary of 2 years bidens work.
|u/Myrkull - 11 hours
|
|It bleeds our enemy without spending a drop of American blood. Hardly
|inexplicable at all
|u/kindanormle - 15 hours
|
|Wish he did more, but the explanation is pretty obvious.
|u/MrBrawn - 16 hours
|
|It's pretty straight forward, we got guns and ammo to sell.
|u/the8bit - 16 hours
|
|More we don't want to see a nuke used. Public reports tell us Biden
|had to remind Putin how we would feel about such an act.
|u/Siestatime46 - 16 hours
|
|I don’t think we are selling anything to them. We are gifting it
|all.
|u/MrBrawn - 16 hours
|
|We usually trade for land, preferred interest in exports, or
|commodities. There's a reason we have 140 bases across the world.
|u/kytheon - 16 hours
|
|A US base inside Ukraine close to the Russian border/frontline
|sounds amazing. And exactly what Putin fears.
|u/eske8643 - 16 hours
|
|No. Its lend Lease agreements. So its not for free
|u/kritikally_akklaimed - 15 hours
|
|We never used lend lease for Ukraine, and it wasn't renewed when
|it expired a year ago (or two)?
|u/I_Never_Use_Slash_S - 16 hours
|
|They should win just to spite Biden
|u/Major_Wayland - 14 hours
|
|Sounds easy enough.
|u/DexaHexa - 10 hours
|
|Get ready for even less!
|u/Pure-Confection6830 - 13 hours
|
|Hey What can I say except, “You’re welcome”
|u/epia343 - 11 hours
|
|Something something Trump, according to reddit the mandarin menace is
|the root of all ills
|u/gorillalad - 10 hours
|
|If Zelenskyy is smart he’ll put all his resources into building an
|atomic bomb.
|u/jeffsaidjess - 7 hours
|
|The US says it gives all pledge money to Ukraine. So where does it
|actually go ?
|u/Great-Try-8508 - 6 hours
|
|*the face when your parents said to "clean your room and get a Gameboy
|for Christmas" and instead you get a 10-1 handheld that has Tetris on
|it*
|u/68Postcar - 6 hours
|
|Well then UKRAINE is very fortunate they “receive!”
|u/AbstractionsHB - 2 hours
|
|About to get nothing from the next administration.
|u/MrTristanClark - 12 hours
|
|Has there been any other country that has shown themselves to be *this*
|entitled to charity support from non-allies. Nobody is obligated to help
|them period, yet he's in the news every other week whining about this
|and that. How about just saying thanks for a change.
|u/donutsoft - 11 hours
|
|We could have saved billions of dollars and they could have saved
|thousands of lives had Bill Clinton not coerced them to get rid of
|their nukes. Now I get to listen to morons on Reddit who didn't study
|their history try and call this charity.
|u/Great-Try-8508 - 6 hours
|
|They weren't Ukraine's nukes anyway, they were the Soviet Union's.
|u/donutsoft - 6 hours
|
|There was no Soviet Union in 1994, and some of those nukes were
|designed and built in Ukraine, by Ukrainians.
|u/4628819351 - 11 hours
|
|They never had nukes. They had nukes on their soil. Learn history.
|u/Se7en_speed - 11 hours
|
|They were the USSR's nukes, which they were as entitled to as
|Russia was.
|u/Reasonable-Meal-5642 - 3 hours
|
|Just curious, were they equally entitled to ussr’s debt?
|u/anchrone - 25 minutes
|
|Yes, which they’ve paid
|u/donutsoft - 10 hours
|
|They had nukes and Russia had the launch codes. That's a problem
|easily fixed by a well funded group of electronic engineers. If
|the nukes weren't theirs to give up, the Budapest Memorandum
|wouldn't have needed signing.
|u/Known-A5 - 6 hours
|
|No it isn't. Because such systems are designed to be tamper
|proof.
|u/donutsoft - 6 hours
|
|There's no such thing as tamper proof. Once you've got
|physical access to any device, reverse engineering is only a
|matter of time. The hard part of a nuclear bomb is uranium or
|plutonium enrichment. They were building control systems in
|the 1940s, this is certainly information that Ukraine would
|have had access to in the 1990s. Edit: The Soviet Union
|actually designed and built some of these nuclear weapons in
|Ukraine. They had plenty of inhouse expertise already.
|u/MrTristanClark - 2 hours
|
|"Bypassing a PAL should be, as one weapons designer
|graphically put it, about as complex as performing a
|tonsillectomy while entering the patient from the wrong
|end." Take some advise from Mr. Zimmerman because you
|pretty obviously need to skim some info on PALs. You are
|vastly understating the complexity of your proposal. The
|Ukrainians had 3 years to bypass the Russian PALs and were
|utterly unable to do so.
|u/YourFaceIsMelting - 10 hours
|
|They had nukes, the Soviet union had ceased to exist and like any
|military equipment left in the newly independent former soviet
|states it became the property of the state. By your reasoning the
|russian´s didn't have nukes in 92' they just had them stationed
|there.
|u/MrTristanClark - 9 hours
|
|I'm not ignorant to the events of 1994. However, there is no clause
|in that agreement that entitles them to any form of protection. I
|don't really see your point here? The USA agreed in the memorandum
|not to attack Ukraine, that's literally it, that's all they
|promised. They have not done that, so their obligations are met.
|Ukraine is entitled to nothing else. Everything in addition to this
|is charity without any obligation, it should be treated as the gift
|it is.
|u/donutsoft - 6 hours
|
|That's a bit like me coercing you into removing your front door
|lock and demanding the disposal of your gun with a promise that I
|won't steal any of your shit, but that I also don't give a fuck
|what your other neighbor might do to you. Come back to planet
|earth and stop with those insane notions you've got going on.
|u/MrTristanClark - 3 hours
|
|Well I'd be a bit of a moron for accepting that deal wouldn't i?
|u/Swords_Dance_94 - 2 hours
|
|US is obligated to help. Google Budapest memorandum
|u/MrTristanClark - 2 hours
|
|? I think you probably should lmao. Actually read the thing
|u/Klutzy_Ocelot_2726 - 4 hours
|
|When you shake hands with an American you should count your fingers
|afterwards. They do nothing for others unless it is in their selfish
|greeedy interests to do so. American exceptionalism is dead. We are
|entering their fat diabetic oligarch phase. One in which they are a
|laughing stock and run by fat entitled morons.
|u/YNinja58 - 9 hours
|
|Well maybe the rest of the fucking world can chip in and stop expecting
|us to do everything?
|u/Zestyclose_Currency5 - 7 hours
|
|Because the other 50% is being laundered and provided to corrupt
|politicians everywhere.
|u/BewareTheGays - 5 hours
|
|Or he's just saying that they only received half so they can get more
|u/BrokenDownMiata - 11 hours
|
|What pisses me off is that people give endless excuses for this shit.
|You mean to tell me the US army can invade any country on a whim at any
|time, but the moment that they’re just sending equipment, not soldiers,
|it takes months?
|u/snekinmahboots - 8 hours
|
|The fact that you call it “just sending equipment” shows me how
|chronically online and clueless you are You think all of this
|equipment was just sitting around for us to send via UPS? Also,
|Ukraine is a non NATO country. The whole point of joining nato was for
|these issues. The fact that it’s now the US’s responsibility to be a
|sugar daddy for a non-ally’s war on another continent is fucking
|weird. What’s even weirder is the sense of entitlement, like we owe
|them anything. The rest of Europe has spent years not paying their
|share and investing it in their country, meanwhile American citizens
|foot the bill. But if you’re so passionate why don’t you head over
|to Ukraine and volunteer your service?
|u/420Migo - 5 hours
|
|Ballsy to spit facts like these here my man... Only a matter of time
|before you get called a Russian bot
|u/Qeesify - 6 hours
|
|Yep, I'm sure the average american would've had more disposable
|income if USA didn't help Ukraine. That's a no brainer, they would
|be getting loan forgiveness, more unemployment benefits, tax breaks,
|you name it!
|u/DGIce - 5 hours
|
|[https://executivegov.com/articles/who-are-the-us-allies-
|understanding-the-foreign-relations-of-the-united-states/#Listing\_U
|S\_Allies\_Partners\_and\_Friendly\_Nations](https://executivegov.co
|m/articles/who-are-the-us-allies-understanding-the-foreign-
|relations-of-the-united-
|states/#Listing_US_Allies_Partners_and_Friendly_Nations) Fucking
|crazy that putin's propaganda has worked. Like it's supposed to be
|okay to just let dictators do whatever they want. Like the growth of
|world trade doesn't rely on a growing network of democracies.
|Putin's ally is fucking Kim Jong Un. This isn't like other
|interventions for the past several decades, it's an actual democracy
|that is asking for help to protect it's sovereignty. An actual
|righteous fight, literally just the right thing to do. The world has
|gone mad that it's somehow a debate. >But if you’re so passionate
|why don’t you head over to Ukraine and volunteer your service?
|Literally studying Ukrainian just in case.
|u/Chillychairs - 2 hours
|
|A European campaigning to continue the U.S. handouts, what a
|suprise
|u/Extra-Atmosphere-207 - 4 hours
|
|You're not an American taxpater, clearly, so your opinion on US
|spending is not really relevant. Send us a selfie when you're on
|the trenches, then we'll retract our statement.
|u/eggressive - 1 hour
|
|Don’t even try to cover the cognitive dissonance.
|u/Rikers-Mailbox - 7 hours
|
|That’s a little harsh. And Ukraine is an ally, they just can’t join.
|u/BVANMOD - 7 hours
|
|they’re not an ally, that’s an official term not just whatever
|country you might be helping.
|u/snekinmahboots - 6 hours
|
|They are officially not an ally my guy
|u/Somerandomguy292 - 7 hours
|
|Yeah, because we are doing other things. We are supplying Japan,
|Korea, and Tawain. We also have to continue to supply our own military
|and ensure we can still do things. We are in the ME and Africa
|u/Evil_AppleJuice - 8 hours
|
|Yeah?... the US can use it's own military to do what it wants. Months
|can go by debating whether or not the US should send BILLIONS worth of
|equipment, technology, and logistical work to ANOTHER COUNTRY that's
|not a part of NATO. There is a metric fuckload of geopolitical
|consequences to GIVING AWAY our resources to a country at war.
|u/niardnom - 8 hours
|
|It's shit. The US could have done so much more, even without
|congressional appropriations.
|u/pagalpanti - 15 hours
|
|I like how they’re still holding off Russia using Us weapons but still
|shit on Us contributions
|u/needlestack - 13 hours
|
|They are suffering and dying. We could have prevented that. Giving
|them enough to suffer and die longer isn’t the great generosity you
|seem to think it is. You’re drowning? How about I throw you a sponge
|and then snub you when you’re not satisfied? We screwed up by not
|giving them 10x support immediately and allowing them to strike
|military targets inside Russia. We will pay dearly as the
|international order shifts toward authoritarian states emboldened by
|seeing how the west is afraid to confront Russia.
|u/Axxion89 - 13 hours
|
|Guess no other country on the planet can step up besides the US.
|Maybe that’s why the US population is getting fed up with Ukraine
|because when the countries closest to the conflict can’t or won’t
|step up to help Ukraine, then the logical question many ask is why
|should we.
|u/Arthemax - 12 hours
|
|Several other European countries have given a larger share of GDP
|as aid to Ukraine than what the US has.
|u/Volodio - 12 hours
|
|European countries are stepping up and contributing more than the
|US. The problem is they can't send so much more like the US can
|and the aid has to be balanced with an increase toward the own
|country military capability as Russia is becoming a bigger threat
|to them, something the US doesn't have to be concerned with
|because of the Atlantic. On top of it, the European aid is being
|limited by American pressure and influence, otherwise it would be
|bigger. As to whether the US should step up, the reason to do so
|is to keep the American position as first world power and the
|benefits associated with it. If the Americans would rather abandon
|this position, it's up to them, as long as they don't complain
|about losing the privileges and influence associated with being
|the first world power.
|u/jaasx - 11 hours
|
|> contributing more than the US Every thread on ukraine someone
|says that, and yet it isn't true.
|[stats](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-
|bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/) >they can't send so much more
|like the US can BS. They either chose not to or are just
|so incompetent they can't figure our a supply chain in over 2
|years. >Russia is becoming a bigger threat to them
|lol. The world has seen what a joke their army is. They can't
|beat Ukraine they sure can't beat NATO or the EU. And they've
|used up their best equipment already. >European aid is being
|limited by American pressure and influence Source for that?
|And I thought Europe were grownups who could make decisions for
|themselves. especially about a war near their own borders.
|I'm happy to see the US do more, but this relationship seems
|like we do all the work for very little benefit. Europe's been
|slacking for 30 years and that's not ok.
|u/Volodio - 56 minutes
|
|Mate, do you even read your own sources? US 75,1. Meanwhile,
|EU institutions 39,38 + Germany 14,7 + UK 13,1 + etc and when
|you finish adding every European country, the end result is
|110,17 billion. 35 billion higher than the US. And that only
|includes publicly declared aid when there are several
|countries like France which keep most of it private. A
|supply chain can't be created out of thin air in two years.
|You're free to think Russia isn't a threat, but many
|countries, like Poland, Finland, Sweden, the Baltic countries,
|etc, obviously disagree as they spend a very large amount into
|increasing their own army and building defenses against
|Russia. Maybe you are right and know better than the European
|military experts and intelligence agencies, but regardless of
|what you think, the fact is that European countries are
|spending a significant amount on their own military which is
|money that isn't being spent on Ukraine. No country in the
|world is free of foreign influence. European countries are
|"grown up" that make their own decisions, but it doesn't mean
|these decisions can't be influenced by other countries.
|There are many ways that influence is leveraged and used, but
|the most concrete example is probably the weapons being sent
|and used. For instance, the US used its influence over the
|decades to get US military industry to be involved in the
|European military industry or even suplant it. This resulted
|in American components being used in the production of British
|Storm Shadow missiles. Thanks to this, Biden is preventing the
|UK from allowing Ukraine to use Storm Shadow for deep strikes
|in Russia. Of course, the US isn't the only country guilty
|of preventing weapon transfers. Switzerland did it a few
|months ago with munitions for German or Austrian systems if I
|remember right and this resulted in many countries turning
|away from Swiss defense companies. The US is simply the most
|pervasive country in that regard.
|u/theknight38 - 11 hours
|
|>Every thread on ukraine someone says that, and yet it isn't
|true. stats And apparently every thread is right while you
|cannot read your own sources.
|u/orwll - 9 hours
|
|> something the US doesn't have to be concerned with because of
|the Atlantic That's a good point.
|u/4628819351 - 11 hours
|
|> We could have prevented that. We could have declared a legal war
|with Russia, and skipped the middle man. But, if we're talking
|about reality, the reality is that Ukraine will get weapons when the
|stockpile is replenished, and not a day sooner. They get our old
|shit when production is finished on the new. And those long range
|strikes everyone seems to think the US is disallowing... the long
|range capability is only usable by US military members. So, again,
|we could have declared a legal war on Russia and cut out the middle
|man.
|u/Notworld - 7 hours
|
|Yeah weapons aren’t gonna stop them from dying. They can’t win this
|war. We could have negotiated an end to this thing when it first
|began but we wanted to “weaken Russia”. It’s going great…
|u/strimholov - 13 hours
|
|Should Ukraine lie and say they got 2x more weapons than they did in
|reality? It's not shitting, it's just stating a fact
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 13 hours
|
|They should be thankful they got what they did, ffs.
|u/GlazedPannis - 13 hours
|
|Oh fuck off with this boomer attitude
|u/redvfr800 - 8 hours
|
|The professional beggar at it again
|u/d57giants - 5 hours
|
|Why I’m I not d so surprised.
|u/jellobend - 1 hour
|
|Boy, do I have news for you
|u/AgnaSkinner - 1 hour
|
|Joe Biden has no control
|u/amazebol - 1 hour
|
|I’ve never seen him say “Thank You”
|u/luke-fundleburg - 47 minutes
|
|Good. Don’t give them another cent.
|u/Amazingcamaro - 16 minutes
|
|How about you defend yourself? And maybe you don't win. Stop being a
|crybaby.
|u/pagalpanti - 15 hours
|
|Europe who’s actually at threat if Ukraine falls do diddly squat and
|have the audacity to crib about USA failing to meet its promises
|u/Malin_Keshar - 14 hours
|
|You forget how any weapon transfer by EU countries was and is getting
|regularly blocked by US. Because for some fucking reason the maker (or
|even just co-developer) of the weapon who sells it away gets to decide
|how and where it's used? Honestly, of all the unlikely, insane,
|idiotic things that came to light in the last five years, this has to
|be near the top of the list.
|u/possiblyMorpheus - 14 hours
|
|EU nations have actually given more to Ukraine than the US. People
|just conveniently ignore that Ukraine needs economic and
|infrastructural aid (which European has given the majority of) in
|addition to military aid. As for Zelensky he is saying what he has
|to. But there’s no doubt they would have lost already without the US,
|and they can still win do long as Britain, France, Poland, and Germany
|don’t blink if Trump tries to pressure them into accepting Russia’s
|demands
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 13 hours
|
|False: https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/28489/ukrainian-military-
|humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/
|u/possiblyMorpheus - 12 hours
|
|I could be misreading it, but pretty sure that according to that
|chart Europe (101 bn) is giving more aid than the US (92 bn),
|while Britain, Denmark, Canada, and the Netherlands are giving
|more of their GDP. Germany is .1% down, so basically giving the
|same amount. And that wasn’t even listing countries further down
|the list The US by this chart isn’t even giving the highest
|percentage of gdp in north america
|u/TheCatInTheHatThings - 12 hours
|
|And that 101bn doesn’t even include the aid given by Romania,
|the Baltics, Poland, the Czech Republic, the other Slavic
|countries, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc…
|u/possiblyMorpheus - 12 hours
|
|Exactly. That chart seems to support my argument lol.
|u/TheCatInTheHatThings - 12 hours
|
|Yeah, the OP isn’t exactly the most adept at digesting and
|understanding information. Also voted for Trump according
|to her own comment history, which checks out given the
|display we’ve seen here :D
|u/possiblyMorpheus - 8 hours
|
|Good thing she follows a guy known to be a straight
|shooter and who would never lead her astray
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 4 hours
|
|Go ahead and do the math, when you combine everything the US
|has helped more than every EU country and others combined. The
|fact that some EU countries aren’t even at the 2% threshold
|for NATO is a joke. And again, the US finances a majority of
|NATO but clearly you can’t wrap your heads around that either.
|You cry about the US not minding its own business and you cry
|when they “don’t do enough” for you. It’s pathetic. The real
|reason the US is “helping” is because they will reap the
|benefits of rebuilding a country and having more banks,
|businesses and infrastructure overseas. https://www.ifw-
|kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 4 hours
|
|Go ahead and do the math, when you combine everything the US has
|helped more than every EU country and others combined. The fact
|that some EU countries aren’t even at the 2% threshold for NATO
|is a joke. And again, the US finances a majority of NATO but
|clearly you can’t wrap your heads around that either. You cry
|about the US not minding its own business and you cry when they
|“don’t do enough” for you. It’s pathetic. The real reason the US
|is “helping” is because they will reap the benefits of
|rebuilding a country and having more banks, businesses and
|infrastructure overseas. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-
|against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
|u/possiblyMorpheus - 4 hours
|
|Yea, these charts also show Europe is giving more total aid
|lmao Also, I’m an American, which makes your whining here
|even funnier
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 4 hours
|
|Clearly you don’t know how to read so whatever education you
|have failed you lmao
|u/TheCatInTheHatThings - 12 hours
|
|Nope, still wrong and that link still proves it.
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 4 hours
|
|Go ahead and do the math, when you combine everything the US has
|helped more than every EU country and others combined. The fact
|that some EU countries aren’t even at the 2% threshold for NATO
|is a joke. And again, the US finances a majority of NATO but
|clearly you can’t wrap your heads around that either. You cry
|about the US not minding its own business and you cry when they
|“don’t do enough” for you. It’s pathetic. The real reason the US
|is “helping” is because they will reap the benefits of
|rebuilding a country and having more banks, businesses and
|infrastructure overseas. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-
|against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
|u/mberger09 - 13 hours
|
|Ah I forgot it’s EU vs USA
|u/needlestack - 13 hours
|
|Europe sent more aid to Ukraine than the US. But it’s a great talking
|point you’ve got there for the people who believe immigrants eat cats.
|Europe should do more. And so should the US. Should have since day
|one.
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 13 hours
|
|False: https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/28489/ukrainian-military-
|humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/
|u/geo0rgi - 13 hours
|
|Do you even understand the chart you are quoting?
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 4 hours
|
|Go ahead and do the math, when you combine everything the US has
|helped more than every EU country and others combined. The fact
|that some EU countries aren’t even at the 2% threshold for NATO
|is a joke. And again, the US finances a majority of NATO but
|clearly you can’t wrap your heads around that either. You cry
|about the US not minding its own business and you cry when they
|“don’t do enough” for you. It’s pathetic. The real reason the US
|is “helping” is because they will reap the benefits of
|rebuilding a country and having more banks, businesses and
|infrastructure overseas. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-
|against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
|u/TheCatInTheHatThings - 12 hours
|
|Evidently not. Looks like reading comprehension, geography and
|basic maths is not something they teach in the US. Then again
|this particular person states she voted for Trump, so I guess we
|should be happy she managed to find a link dealing with the
|topic at all.
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 4 hours
|
|Go ahead and do the math, when you combine everything the US
|has helped more than every EU country and others combined. The
|fact that some EU countries aren’t even at the 2% threshold
|for NATO is a joke. And again, the US finances a majority of
|NATO but clearly you can’t wrap your heads around that either.
|You cry about the US not minding its own business and you cry
|when they “don’t do enough” for you. It’s pathetic. The real
|reason the US is “helping” is because they will reap the
|benefits of rebuilding a country and having more banks,
|businesses and infrastructure overseas. https://www.ifw-
|kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
|u/TheCatInTheHatThings - 2 hours
|
|Yeah, those charts also say you’re wrong tho. This is
|hilarious. Please learn to read and correctly interpret your
|own sources.
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 2 hours
|
|Please learn how to do math, tyvm lmfao
|u/Volodio - 12 hours
|
|Your source confirms his point. Simply add up the aid of every
|European countries and institutions and you will see it far
|exceeds the US aid. And this chart isn't even accurate to real
|life aid as several countries don't disclose their contribution,
|especially of the military kind. It is notably the case of
|France.
|u/Airtightspoon - 11 hours
|
|In what world is it fair to compare the contribututions of an
|entire continent to the contributions of one country? Country-
|to-country, the U.S. has given a larger amount of money to
|Ukraine than anyone else.
|u/Volodio - 2 hours
|
|First, you guys started the comparison by complaining Europe
|wasn't doing its share. Second, the US has a very large
|pop, equal to nearly three times the more populated European
|country and much closer to Europe as a whole than a single
|European country. But if you don't think it's fair, we
|could also compare contribution as percentage of GDP or
|contribution per capital, in which case the US would be below
|a lot of European countries like Greece or Denmark.
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 4 hours
|
|Go ahead and do the math, when you combine everything the US has
|helped more than every EU country and others combined. The fact
|that some EU countries aren’t even at the 2% threshold for NATO
|is a joke. And again, the US finances a majority of NATO but
|clearly you can’t wrap your heads around that either. You cry
|about the US not minding its own business and you cry when they
|“don’t do enough” for you. It’s pathetic. The real reason the US
|is “helping” is because they will reap the benefits of
|rebuilding a country and having more banks, businesses and
|infrastructure overseas. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-
|against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
|u/Volodio - 2 hours
|
|Your own link literally has a US vs Europe comparison, where
|it confirms Europe provides $35 billion more than the US. You
|just need to scroll down a bit to find it. The fact that
|you're not even reading your own source and go on an unrelated
|rant makes me think you're a bot.
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 2 hours
|
|YOU need to scroll down and consider ALL types of aid and
|weapons provided with their dollars worth. Again, learn how
|to read. First chart alone regarding military aid total US
|56.8B, EU Nations 43.64 and Other 14.34. Try again lmao
|u/Volodio - 50 minutes
|
|There is literally a chart total government support to
|Ukraine by country group which shows 118,2 billion for
|Europe and 84,7 billion for the US. And again, it only
|counts the declared aid. Like mate, are you for real...
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 46 minutes
|
|Are you for real “mate”? Take a statistics class to help
|you learn how to read graphs
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 2 hours
|
|There’s a difference between allocated and disbursed as
|well, highly suggest you look up what the difference is
|hahahah
|u/TheCatInTheHatThings - 12 hours
|
|The link you posted literally proves that Europe does more than
|the US. According to your link, the US provided 92.7 billion
|dollars in aid (all types of aid combined). The EU (largely funded
|by Germany and France) already does more than half of what the US
|does (48 billion dollars). *Additionally*, Germany, Netherlands,
|the UK, Denmark, Italy, and France do more than double what the EU
|does. They add an additional 53.5 billion dollars, bringing Europe
|to 101.5 billion dollars. And that’s not even counting all
|European nations. This doesn’t include Spain, Poland, Portugal,
|the Baltics, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, Greece, the
|Baltics… so yes, Europe literally did more for Ukraine than the US
|did so far, and your own link shows it. Cheers.
|u/amn70 - 11 hours
|
|The crickets from the guy are deafening. Probably scouring the
|Internet to find a meme with a chart that "proves" his claim now
|that actual factual statistics backfired on him.
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 4 hours
|
|Go ahead and do the math, when you combine everything the US
|has helped more than every EU country and others combined. The
|fact that some EU countries aren’t even at the 2% threshold
|for NATO is a joke. And again, the US finances a majority of
|NATO but clearly you can’t wrap your heads around that either.
|You cry about the US not minding its own business and you cry
|when they “don’t do enough” for you. It’s pathetic. The real
|reason the US is “helping” is because they will reap the
|benefits of rebuilding a country and having more banks,
|businesses and infrastructure overseas. https://www.ifw-
|kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
|u/CountryFriedSteak78 - 12 hours
|
|You’re absolutely right - if you ignore math and geography. Try
|it again after you add the individual European countries
|contributions to the EU institutional number.
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 4 hours
|
|Go ahead and do the math, when you combine everything the US has
|helped more than every EU country and others combined. The fact
|that some EU countries aren’t even at the 2% threshold for NATO
|is a joke. And again, the US finances a majority of NATO but
|clearly you can’t wrap your heads around that either. You cry
|about the US not minding its own business and you cry when they
|“don’t do enough” for you. It’s pathetic. The real reason the US
|is “helping” is because they will reap the benefits of
|rebuilding a country and having more banks, businesses and
|infrastructure overseas. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-
|against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
|u/Engineer__This - 14 hours
|
|I don’t know why you think Europe is doing diddly squat. Most of the
|key players in Europe are donating more than the US per capita.
|However, Italy and France are donating diddly squat and need to up
|their game.
|u/fish1900 - 14 hours
|
|This article is about the fact that the US delivered less than it
|committed to. If you do the math on Europe, it looks far worse.
|Many of their aid promises are going out years.
|u/Worried_Thylacine - 14 hours
|
|NATO established 2% GDP for military spending. For decades few NATO
|countries met that requirement. Even today, some European NATO
|countries are not meeting the quota.
|u/needlestack - 13 hours
|
|It was a recommendation not a requirement and countries have been
|moving that direction. Stop trying to undermine the institution
|that has kept Europe (and thus America) out of a huge war for the
|past 70 years. Notice how everything went to shit once Trump and
|people like yourself started turning their backs on NATO. You are
|Putin’s splinter.
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 13 hours
|
|A simple Google search will show you that this isn’t true. Under
|Biden more countries started contributing LESS. Why? Likely
|because they knew he was weak and wouldn’t do anything.
|u/TheCatInTheHatThings - 12 hours
|
|Well, then provide the links that supposedly show that. The
|links I find suggest that NATO contributions expanded under
|Biden. Given your track record with linking information that
|doesn’t support your argument at all and actually supports the
|other side I’d be curious to see what you come up with this
|time.
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 4 hours
|
|Go ahead and do the math, when you combine everything the US
|has helped more than every EU country and others combined.
|The fact that some EU countries aren’t even at the 2%
|threshold for NATO is a joke. And again, the US finances a
|majority of NATO but clearly you can’t wrap your heads
|around that either. You cry about the US not minding its own
|business and you cry when they “don’t do enough” for you.
|It’s pathetic. The real reason the US is “helping” is
|because they will reap the benefits of rebuilding a country
|and having more banks, businesses and infrastructure
|overseas. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-
|ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
|u/CountryFriedSteak78 - 12 hours
|
|NATO expanded under Biden.
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 4 hours
|
|More countries joined NATO under Biden due to the Ukrainian
|war, perpetuated by Biden. AGAIN if you look at nato numbers
|which are published online countries began contributing LESS
|until 2024. It’s not hard to go check.
|u/pagalpanti - 14 hours
|
|‘Per capita’ How many US citizens are at danger if Russia absorbs
|Ukraine? 0 This entitlement that USA should contribute more
|because their population is bigger comes from where?
|u/Depressedkid1998 - 13 hours
|
|US has troops in europe, south korea, japan, whatever the fuck
|else. That’s how they remain on top. Your view is ridiculous.
|u/possiblyMorpheus - 13 hours
|
|That second sentence is hilariously naive
|u/needlestack - 13 hours
|
|If you don’t think American security depends on stability in
|Europe you may want to go read a history book or two on the first
|part of the last century.
|u/Engineer__This - 14 hours
|
|From pretty much every standardised metric ever when comparing the
|performance of a country. You expect countries like Romania to be
|matching or contributing more in absolute terms than the US?
|u/pagalpanti - 14 hours
|
|For their security they better contribute everything they got
|instead of complaining why USA isn’t spending more to keep them
|safe
|u/milanistasbarazzino0 - 14 hours
|
|Also European aid is mostly humanitarian / financial. Which
|surely helps, but it doesn't win a war
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 13 hours
|
|False: https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/28489/ukrainian-military-
|humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/
|u/TheCatInTheHatThings - 12 hours
|
|It’s so funny how you keep posting that link that says you
|yourself are wrong.
|u/tyvmforyourtime - 4 hours
|
|Go ahead and do the math, when you combine everything the US has
|helped more than every EU country and others combined. The fact
|that some EU countries aren’t even at the 2% threshold for NATO
|is a joke. And again, the US finances a majority of NATO but
|clearly you can’t wrap your heads around that either. You cry
|about the US not minding its own business and you cry when they
|“don’t do enough” for you. It’s pathetic. The real reason the US
|is “helping” is because they will reap the benefits of
|rebuilding a country and having more banks, businesses and
|infrastructure overseas. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-
|against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
|u/PsychologicalTalk156 - 14 hours
|
|Welcome to how Europeans think
|u/strimholov - 13 hours
|
|It's a global war, not limited to Europe, effects are felt much
|further. US Biden policy of limiting Ukrainian defence against Russian
|invasion has totally failed and pulled North Korea into the war.
|u/werkthentwerk - 8 hours
|
|That’s way more than Ukraine would’ve offered the US if the roles were
|reversed Time for Europe to step up to the plate and raise those taxes
|some more to fund military efforts! Have fun kids!
|u/mscotch2020 - 12 hours
|
|US is a poor country, has no money
|u/DonTeca35 - 9 hours
|
|Good go get your own money
|u/2Kids1WifeNoLife - 13 hours
|
|bruh no cap im tired of this
|u/Buyback_Cars_6139 - 12 hours
|
|Where's the rest that was stolen and missing..
|u/rxdrug - 10 hours
|
|Bingo. In 5 years it’ll come out that for every dollar worth of stuff
|we send over there, an equal amount is stolen or misappropriated.
|While I don’t deny that Ukraine is still at war, it’s a cash grab at
|this point with no accountability.
|u/pushin_webistics - 8 hours
|
|cringe
|u/Weekly-Procedure-922 - 9 hours
|
|Welcome to US Healthcare and it’s copays Volodymyr
|u/GothGirlStink - 9 hours
|
|It'll be zero soon so we won't have to deal with the whining about not
|enough free handouts
|u/Diarygirl - 7 hours
|
|Lol there's never been a world leader who whines as much as your boy
|Donnie.
|u/orwll - 9 hours
|
|I'm sure his buddy Boris Johnson will step up and make sure the UK and
|Europe give them what they need.
|u/Jesta23 - 9 hours
|
|I’m sure a lot of people take their but before it gets there.
|u/Real_Shaytarn - 7 hours
|
|England alone has sent over 3 BILLION and a lot of that money has gone
|missing
|u/Smrleda - 5 hours
|
|Being of the end of Ukraine- Trump will finish it.
|u/Captainkirkandcrew59 - 16 hours
|
|Folks - Biden has dealt with a fully nonfunctional Congress for over two
|years. Ukraine is lucky they got as much as they did! If I worked in the
|defense industry like the folks making artillery shells - I’d be calling
|Washington daily to turn on the money spigot! I means my job!!
|u/DefinitelyNotPeople - 15 hours
|
|Biden is the one pledging the materials. It’s his administration’s
|responsibility to deliver on those pledges. All this was done after
|Congress provided the necessary authorization.
|u/strimholov - 15 hours
|
|No, Biden has delivered only half of what Congress has allocated for
|Ukraine. Why did he do that?
|u/TWVer - 15 hours
|
|When the House says “Yes.” but the Senate says “Wait, not so fast!”
|what do you think happens?.. BTW, the Republican majority in the
|House voted against a second military aid package.
|u/strimholov - 15 hours
|
|That's incorrect. Senate has passed the bill to aid Ukraine defend
|against Russia back in April
|[https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/23/politics/senate-vote-israel-
|ukraine-aid-
|dg/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/23/politics/senate-
|vote-israel-ukraine-aid-dg/index.html) But why did Biden ignore
|Ukraine and didn't use the allocated money?
|u/kosherbeans123 - 16 hours
|
|That’s just not true. We sent a ton of arms over there in 2 bipartisan
|packages. Meanwhile groceries tripled and rent doubled - nothing being
|done for the home front here
|u/heX_dzh - 15 hours
|
|Would the ammo and old humvees help you at the home front? Best
|wishes to the wartorn US.
|u/toodimes - 15 hours
|
|It would definitely help get groceries. It’s not like the
|supermarket has anti-humvee capabilities.
|u/TWVer - 14 hours
|
|You’re mostly a victim of decades of deregulation and worldwide
|macro-economic effects, which has strengthened wealth concentration.
|The donations to Ukraine are a drop in the bucket, with it mostly
|being paid back in jobs in the US defense industry. The post-WW2
|economic bubble which saw a boom in middle income wealth growth, was
|largely down to a combination of FDR-era regulations imposed
|following the Depression and the aftermath of WW2, where the US
|supplied a lot of Europe and Japan following the devastation of
|their industries, plus the initial (partially government funded)
|Cold War boom in the aerospace industry. Those times won’t come
|back with China, India and other non-Western nations being better
|able to compete in terms of manufacturing. Voting in an autocrat
|intent on pushing deregulation even further will not help in the
|longterm but is likely to exacerbate the situation for the middle
|class even further. Stopping donations in Ukraine won’t help much
|in that regard. Letting Russia retain the conquered territories
|will likely hurt the US in the medium to longterm even, because
|Russia (and China) will secure the eastern Ukrainian rare earth
|mineral deposits essential for the electronics manufacturing
|industry.
|u/ShadowMercure - 15 hours
|
|Nothing that you *know* of, go check wikipedia on what Biden's done
|for the home front. Infrastructure, protecting the women of the US,
|restarting manufacturing, expanding homegrown chip production, clean
|energy, agriculture and farming subsidies, water treatment
|expansions, import tariffs to promote American-made production, the
|list goes on.
|u/mberger09 - 13 hours
|
|People crying about egg and gas prices don’t mind spending 100-500
|on Trump merchandise
|u/MysticMelody1 - 16 hours
|
|Getting half the aid is like patching a leak with a sieve better than
|nothing, but not enough.
|u/ubeupaials - 12 hours
|
|Over promise, under deliver
|u/DieEgo24 - 12 hours
|
|This is probably rage bait
|u/ALWAYS_have_a_Plan_B - 11 hours
|
|*winks in Ukrainian...
|u/hogman09 - 1 hour
|
|Which is 100% too much.
|u/ScaryHuckleberry1000 - 30 minutes
|
|Why didn't big countries just gang together and bomb Russia to stop the
|war at the beginning instead of dragging it on to multiple years like
|this?
|u/violinha - 3 minutes
|
|Because nukes.
|u/Junior_Adeptness_792 - 15 hours
|
|Dang. Biden administration came through again, huh?
|u/strimholov - 13 hours
|
|Well, 45 million people count on him to establish peace. Why should he
|remain silent?
|u/avatar8900 - 14 hours
|
|They’ll get the rest when they win
|u/TheUpperLeft - 13 hours
|
|What is this take?
|u/Brilliant-Froyo3223 - 9 hours
|
|The rest goes to his many homes, crippling coke habit
|u/intergalacticwolves - 12 hours
|
|embarrassing as hell as an american. there’s one actual aggressive bully
|right now on the world stage and america is too fucking scared to do
|anything smfh- this is why we have 1,000 fucking bases around the
|world, don’t have health care, and when the moment finally comes to
|actually stand up to a little firepower, we piss a little down our leg,
|look to the shoulder to chat with the other guy (putin, the mass
|murderer) like oh r u okay still i mean i’ll sanction u but no more okay
|wait no more wait no more wait no more… jesus fucking christ, america’s
|actions, like this war, are insanity.
|u/Hectoriu - 11 hours
|
|Yeah nothing except the $64 billion we have sent so far.
|u/rasz_pl - 10 hours
|
|$80B on paper, but dude just said half of it _never materialized_
|u/intergalacticwolves - 10 hours
|
|it’s been needed and beneficial no doubt, but why limit what they
|need and send in small bunches? there have been crucial points
|throughout the war that if america would have sent everything we
|promised, rather than ration, that could have decisively changed the
|trajectory of the war to the benefit of ukraine and anyone else that
|doesn’t like foreign troops crossing your border to murder you.
|u/carlcjon - 6 hours
|
|just learnt ukraine men are by law forced to fight in war, so they dont
|have a choice. I feel now this law in itself is evil and so is zelensky
|u/DGIce - 5 hours
|
|wait until you find out what russia did
|u/ShakeForProtein - 2 hours
|
|Yes, conscription has been a thing all over the world in times of war,
|especially for the defenders.
|u/carlcjon - 2 hours
|
|i am not surprised that my country India does not have it as law.
|Maybe because we got independence from english in 1947 and have
|lived hundreds of years before that in practically slavery like laws
|so know what real freedom is. It can not be compromised in any
|emergency situation. Right to life is indeed a law in the
|constitution and it can not be compromised.
|u/ShakeForProtein - 52 minutes
|
|I'm certainly not an expert on the constitution of India, however
|a cursory google search mentions that article 23 makes
|conscription theoretically legal.
|u/Chillychairs - 2 hours
|
|Meanwhile Ukrainian women have been fucking around all over Europe
|clubs as their men are dying Equality!
|u/carlcjon - 2 hours
|
|idk about that, but ukrainian men should have had the same rights as
|free men of many other countries like Australia or India or canada.
|I cannot even imagine how broken and enslaved i would feel if my
|country forced me to go to battle. Fuck that in every way possible
|u/sirdrizzy - 4 hours
|
|Spoke to a Ukrainian colleague a few days ago who claims that a lot of
|money gets embezzled. He’s the only Ukrainian I spoke to recently, but
|was surprised to hear that he thought Zelensky was essentially a
|criminal.
|u/Chillychairs - 2 hours
|
|It's all a show
|u/series_hybrid - 13 hours
|
|Sooo...Russia got its ass kicked with only half the aid?
|u/TonyG_from_NYC - 12 hours
|
|Better take what you can. Pretty soon, it might be zero with the
|incoming Putin puppet.
|u/primaboy1 - 14 hours
|
|No free rides
|u/N43N - 8 hours
|
|Just in case you are interested in the actual truth:
|[https://imgur.com/QeSoNTI](https://imgur.com/QeSoNTI)
|u/deeprocks - 11 hours
|
|I mean the US and the UK as obligated to help, because they are the
|ones who got Ukraine to give up their nukes to Russia, under the
|condition that they would ensure Ukraine’s security.
|u/GasolinePizza - 11 hours
|
|The US and UK fulfilled their obligations by not invading Ukraine
|and bringing the issue to the security council when Russia *did*
|invade. That's what the Budapest Memorandum said, that's it. The
|whole "look at the west not listening to the treaty, they don't care
|about Ukraine!" is literal Russian misinformation designed to drive
|a wedge between Ukraine and the west. I would say that I'd hope you
|would stop accidentally spreading this propaganda around, but given
|how trivially easy it is to see what the memorandum *actually* says
|and the fact that you're still purposely spreading the lie anyways,
|it's pretty clear that you're being intentionally dishonest.
|u/deeprocks - 10 hours
|
|Your point that I am trying to say that the west doesn't care is
|quite contrary to what I actually said. What I was trying to imply
|is (if you read what I replied to) the west (US) cares because
|they are obligated to. The Budapest Memorandum is worth less
|than the paper it is printed on because it does not implicitly
|give any guarantees of aid, especially when Russia has a permanent
|seat and can (and did) veto any UN Security Council resolution to
|stop their attacks. Now, it is on Ukraine for giving up their
|nukes and depending on a worthless, badly written, no conditions
|agreement but in their defense they were dependent on the "word"
|of the US, an unwritten assumption that the US would aid them in
|case Russia failed to keep their promise. That is how the US was
|able to negotiate a win-win-win situation, and that is how it
|often does it for other problems around the world (obviously when
|it's in their self-interest like any other nation), because the US
|has built a reputation around their "word" and might. My
|whole point is, the US is obligated to help not because of any
|agreement or because they have to be kind or for humanitarian
|reasons but because they have that reputation to maintain, the one
|which lets them hold so much power around the world, if they don't
|the house of cards comes falling down eventually as their allies
|realize the US "word" means little now.
|u/PhoneAcc23 - 9 hours
|
|Does this dude ever stop whining
|u/fuzzydunloblaw - 8 hours
|
|I think the pie chart of what zelinsky is up to would be like 99%
|humiliating russia, and 1% whining
|u/Chillychairs - 2 hours
|
|Don't forget having time to go on a worldwide panhandling tour and
|campaigning for Harris
|u/joeblowinIowa - 5 hours
|
|The US needs to pump all the hardware into Ukraine that we can!
|u/underlordd - 15 hours
|
|They shouldn't be getting any.
|u/Prior_Industry - 15 hours
|
|Found Vlad's burner
|u/Enidx10 - 11 hours
|
|Vlad will take over
|u/Telhub - 14 hours
|
|Because Zelenskyys wife is buying Mansions abroad without asking him
|u/zombtachi_uchiha - 13 hours
|
|Boo hoo? USA doesn't take care and feed the homeless and you want moneys
|u/PacmanZ3ro - 13 hours
|
|They want weapons not money you donut
|u/LMurch13 - 13 hours
|
|Jokes on you. The donut doesn't want money to go to American
|homeless, either.
|u/zombtachi_uchiha - 13 hours
|
|There's money involved in making weapons you bagel
|u/PacmanZ3ro - 12 hours
|
|Yes…and those weapons need to be replaced with newly made. They
|must be made in the US which is a net positive for the US economy.
|u/Ok-Code6623 - 13 hours
|
|I'm sorry that Ukraine invented homelessness in the US
|u/FwedSawveg - 14 hours
|
|Why is this dude always bitching
|u/justhereforsee - 14 hours
|
|Because his people are dying
|u/Enidx10 - 11 hours
|
|Then he should probably do something about it.
|u/justhereforsee - 10 hours
|
|He is
|u/VladThePollenInhaler - 15 hours
|
|Fucking deal with it. Or go get it from EU. Give up the parts that are
|Russian speaking and end this madness. Even the people of those regions
|don’t want to be part of Ukraine. Edit: I love pissing people off.
|u/EenGeheimAccount - 13 hours
|
|>Even the people of those regions don’t want to be part of Ukraine.
|Source? Because just speaking Russian and/or being Russian ethnically
|doesn't mean you want Russia to bomb, invade and take over the region
|you live in.
|u/PoiHolloi2020 - 15 hours
|
|>Fucking deal with it. You sound mad. > Give up the parts that are
|Russian speaking and end this madness. Russia didn't invade Ukraine
|because it wanted the Russian speaking regions, it invaded because it
|wants Ukraine to be eternally chained to Moscow.
|u/npquest - 14 hours
|
|It will get delivered no doubt.. after Jan 21 US likely to pledge less
|u/MonkeyExp227 - 9 hours
|
|"If we only pay half, that's efficiency."
|u/can-i-turn-it-up - 7 hours
|
|Big Guy cut
|u/sirtumpur - 2 hours
|
|And he's wondering why people in the US don't want to send more aid to
|him. He's an ungrateful brat.
|u/GroundbreakingOwl786 - 12 hours
|
|Its obvious whats the US plan in Ukraine, even though its hard to
|believe, ii not to save it. They want the war to prolong, to last as
|much as possible because if either side wins that means no more Russian
|suffering. So they are dosing the aid they provide so that Ukrainians
|dont lose the war but dont win it either. Its been obvious for more than
|a year now.
|u/Gaggamaggot - 11 hours
|
|Of course. The other half went into the offshore accounts of Joe and
|Kamala.
|u/Ultimas134 - 8 hours
|
|You’re welcome asshole? What do you want ?
|u/Youria_Tv_Officiel - 4 hours
|
|To save his people ? His nation ? I know it's common for people to
|forget things as soon as new more exciting news get broadcast but, the
|Ukranian are being genocided as we speak. That is, they are bing
|killed en masse abd indiscriminatly, their language and culture is
|being erased, their children abducted.
|u/UnpoliteGuy - 17 hours
|
|50%-10%=40% since last week was it?
|u/SinkTheBoatsLOL - 7 hours
|
|Good. The west shouldn’t fund foreign deaths.
|u/ed_cnc - 12 hours
|
|Well Zelensky could always spend a few billion of the billions he has
|stashed himself away - In fact, Ukraine is awash with G wagons and they
|aint cheap
|u/DudeAbides1556 - 3 hours
|
|Time to accept reality little dude. Too many have died. Stop the
|farsical BS
|u/numitus - 15 hours
|
|My opinion it was better promise and give nothing at the beginning of
|the war, than give not enough to win and continue the massacre. This is
|very cruel towards Ukraine who had to die
|u/DarkISO - 2 hours
|
|Hes gonna be begging for that half once the new year rolls around.
|u/Altruistic-Space399 - 13 hours
|
|Which is still half too fucking much
|u/Worth-Consequence247 - 15 hours
|
|Ungrateful scam artist, he sells lots of the shit in Africa. But he
|always wants more. Edit: those downvoting me have nothing to say. The
|guy is a con artist. 5 years after the Ukraine war is over, you will see
|all those beautiful M16s in the hands of African rebel soldiers. And
|also the infantry fighting vehicles 5 years after that. You’ll never
|see the Abram’s tanks because the US had strict controls over that, and
|they are way too complicated to maintain and operate. Same goes for the
|complicated European missile systems. Zelenskyy will be a very rich
|man from this grift. What kind of a world leader wears a fucking rag to
|meet other leaders dressed in suits? You’ll say he has more to worry
|about and has no time to dress up. Really? On a 9 hour flight to
|Washington this fraud can’t find time to put on a suit? Get the fuck
|out of here. This scumbag is a fraud, a thief and a liar, a beggar and a
|piece of shit
|u/Anothersurviver - 15 hours
|
|Nothing to say cause you're posting such obvious bullshit & no one
|wants to talk with a schizophrenic
|u/Worth-Consequence247 - 15 hours
|
|It’s not bullshit doctor. Obvious bullshit? Tell me what’s bullshit
|about it. Ukraine is a very corrupt country. The most valuable shit
|the government officials can get away with stealing, they will. They
|have contacts to be able to sell it once the war is over. They do
|because the same people in charge were all there when the Soviet
|union collapsed.
|u/BaconFinder - 10 hours
|
|Who would have guessed? A country known for massive corruption suddenly
|gets a mass influx of cash...And the corruption doesn't stop? I am
|shocked...Utterly shocked.
|u/PenislavVaginavich - 14 hours
|
|Biden is literally the reason Ukraine is in the position it's in now.
|His abysmal and embarrassing withdrawal from Afghanistan created a
|domino effect that has lead to the largest and most intense world-wide
|military conflicts since the 1980's. That's what happens when you have
|Tweedledum and Tweedledee as back to back Presidents, and yet idiots
|still didn't show up to vote in this election.
|u/Clawtor - 13 hours
|
|That's quite the reach.
|u/nus01 - 12 hours
|
|and He keeps half of what's received for himself so no wonder they are
|loosing
|u/Trollimperator - 11 hours
|
|Tja, this is what happens if you half ass your presidency Mr. Biden. No
|wonder they could not sell Ukraine support to thier voters. They never
|went off the brakes, yet made any attempt to steer away from Russia
|losing this war.
|u/BrandDC - 12 hours
|
|The other half of the pledged aid was diverted to the Kamala Harris
|FAILED 2024 Campaign. Hollywood, Mainstream Media, and the Music
|Industry appreciate the $$$.
|u/orsowut - 10 hours
|
|No it wasn't
|u/Retinoid634 - 11 hours
|
|Thanks to Republican obstruction in Congress.
|u/TypicalHat2590 - 9 hours
|
|Welfare is over Z. Better start planning a retirement soon.
|