←Back
Kremlin-occupied Ukraine is now a totalitarian hell
https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/11/10/kremlin-occupied-ukraine-...
########################################################################

|u/AlexandrTheTolerable - 18 hours
|
|Snippets from [the
|article](https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/11/10/kremlin-occupied-
|ukraine-is-now-a-totalitarian-hell):  Donald Trump’s incoming
|administration may push for an [armistice or peace
|deal](https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/11/07/why-volodymyr-
|zelensky-may-welcome-donald-trumps-victory) between Russia and Ukraine.
|That might leave a fifth of Ukraine under Russian occupation, and the
|size of this area could easily expand in the coming months if the
|Kremlin intensifies its offensive, which has been gaining ground. To get
|a sense of Vladmir Putin’s dark vision for any territory he permanently
|gains, it is worth looking at conditions in occupied Ukraine now.
|“Kiril”, a Ukrainian agent in occupied territory reached by phone, says
|that “this is a prison society” because the fear of being denounced
|forces everyone to keep their views to themselves. To be without a
|Russian passport these days is “like being a refugee in your own land”.
|Important jobs are almost all held by Russians. Anyone with pro-
|Ukrainian views fears being sent “to the basement”, an expression for
|Russia’s network of detention and “filtration” camps.  All traces of
|Ukraine are being expunged. Schools have switched to the Russian
|curriculum, and Russian youth and paramilitary organisations work in the
|territories. Repression combined with Russification aims to transform
|the social and political fabric of the territories, says Nikolay Petrov,
|the author of a new report for the German Institute for International
|and Security Affairs.  The identity of the occupied territories is
|changing, fast. Some residents have always been pro-Russian. Now
|oppression, brainwashing and an exodus means that the balance has
|shifted further. Some 5-30% of residents in the occupied Zaporizhia and
|Kherson regions are pro-Russian, 20-35% are pro-Ukrainian while the
|rest, possibly more than half, “have a wait-and-see” attitude, according
|to the NRC. “That is why,” says Mr Petrov, “we should not believe in the
|idea that they are all ... waiting for liberators to come and free
|them.”


  |u/SendStoreMeloner - 13 hours
  |
  |A lot of the people who lived there fled to other parts of the country
  |or other countries.   They have a right to return and a right to their
  |belongings.


    |u/FifthMonarchist - 6 hours
    |
    |Probably their belongings are stolen, seized, given away, "adopted",
    |exploded, dead or rubble.


    |u/tiga_94 - 1 hour
    |
    |Even some of those who stayed are left homeless when their apartment
    |block gets demolished due to war damage  If you left - you own
    |nothing there anymore, unless the Ukrainian order comes back.


    |u/PairSeveral7417 - 1 hour
    |
    |This is war, so if you escape and survive, that’s the most you can
    |hope for.


  |u/shriand - 9 hours
  |
  |I'd like to know more about the 5-30% pro Russian population of these
  |regions. What was their situation during the relentless
  |bombing/artillery operations? Are they still pro Russian after their
  |lands were all destroyed?


    |u/AlexandrTheTolerable - 6 hours
    |
    |The article insinuates that the support for Russia is increasing
    |because the locals are basically being brainwashed.


      |u/Etalier - 4 hours
      |
      |Well if I was under Russian occupation I would most definitely
      |claim to be very pro-Russia, due to the fact that if I wasn't, I'd
      |be dead. Anyone asks, pro-Russia.  That said, they would not
      |conquer my mind. I hope. But in area that legimitely had pro-
      |Russian minorities, I would be deadly afraid to trust anything
      |that would hint anti-occupation.  I don't think I would be made
      |for guerrilla warfare or partisan duty. I hope I never have to
      |find out.


        |u/tereawillow - 1 hour
        |
        |They force the Ukrainians there to get russian passports and
        |then send them to the front for the russian army to fight
        |Ukrainians, claiming it is their obligation since they are
        |russian citizens.


        |u/WOWBRO1 - 24 minutes
        |
        |I am a citizen of Russia. Russia has a monstrous propaganda
        |system, which is very easy to fall for if there are no other
        |sources of information. Television in the country is under state
        |control, VPNs are blocked, and it is impossible to talk about
        |the existence of VPNs. War cannot be called war. Veterans of the
        |Special Military Operation are Heroes. These "Heroes" go to
        |schools and teach children "patriotism". I am deeply convinced
        |that residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions have actually
        |become pro-Russian in the last 10 years. 


    |u/LivingAsparagus91 - 1 hour
    |
    |There are many YT and Telegram channels representing their point of
    |view, but mostly in Russian. One rare example of English language YT
    |channels  would be 'Videos from Mariupol''
    |https://www.youtube.com/@VideosfromMariupol. Of course, it will be
    |called 'Russian propaganda' here, but if you want to listen to pro-
    |Russians, you can try


    |u/Silverso - 4 hours
    |
    |At least in one early interview I saw some of them say they're not
    |stupid and that they know it's Ukraine that's bombing them not
    |Russia.


      |u/shriand - 4 hours
      |
      |Ukraine was bombing their own provinces 🤔


  |u/Consistent-Primary41 - 7 hours
  |
  |The pro-Russian ones have passports.   They will be free to return to
  |Russia. Lord knows Russia will need them.  They will find themselves
  |very unwelcome in Ukraine once the liberators have succeeded.


    |u/Gullible-Mortgage263 - 3 hours
    |
    |Are you saying Ukraine will commit genocide after the war ends?


      |u/zhongcha - 2 hours
      |
      |No, they're saying they will *feel unwelcome*. People not liking
      |you is different to state directed genocide via relocation of
      |which Russia actually does.


        |u/Gullible-Mortgage263 - 2 hours
        |
        |What does feel unwelcome mean? Open violence towards civilians
        |after the war?


          |u/AtmosphericDepressed - 2 hours
          |
          |I think he's trying to say that they will have emotions and
          |suspicions (feelings) that the people around them do not like
          |them and do not want them to be there (unwelcome)


          |u/zhongcha - 2 hours
          |
          |At the end of the day there will be some of that. The
          |Ukrainian government's job, and especially local institutions
          |will be to prevent widespread violence if they gain
          |territorial control after the war. Ukraine has kept local
          |institutions running in exile and has tried to continue to
          |have police reserves to do this job if the realities change,
          |but it will likely be mitigation first until they can get
          |enough manpower and adapt to the realities on the ground. So
          |naturally some civilians will try and organise against pro-
          |Russian Ukrainians or Ukrainian Dual nationals, Russian
          |citizens in Ukraine and it will take some time to change
          |mitigation to full prevention of harm.


  |u/Asbestos_the_bestos - 14 hours
  |
  |This sounds exactly like the things, that N*zi Germany did... I guess
  |today's RuSSia and No-no-germany are pretty much equivalent


        |u/ShinCoal - 11 hours
        |
        |To play devils advocate, I think some people who use multiple
        |platforms are just used to partially obscuring words like 'nazi'
        |and 'death' because it gets your comments either hidden or
        |deleted on some of the other social media platforms. So if you
        |see people on reddit do that, this might be the reason.


    |u/thisismyredditacct - 10 hours
    |
    |Or what the Russian Empire did to Ukraine once already.


    |u/bobandgeorge - 7 hours
    |
    |You can say the word "Nazi". This isn't TikTok. You don't need to
    |censor yourself like that.


    |u/AbbieNormal - 12 hours
    |
    |And modern Republicans are happy to appease Putin with land.
    |Because that went so well, appeasing Hitler with land.


      |u/Fluffy_Routine2879 - 4 hours
      |
      |It went so well last time Russia just got some land as well in
      |2014 by these mysterious unflagged forces in Crimea. They totally
      |didn’t escalate the war in the years following up until today.
      |Conclusion can only be that Putins Russia must be trustworthy for
      |deals with no one to upheld them 👍  Nice brainwork, right wingers
      |all over the West.


        |u/sciguy52 - 16 minutes
        |
        |Obama was in office in 2014.


    |u/tidbitsmisfit - 12 hours
    |
    |this is what Russia has done their entire existence. genocide


    |u/ImportantObjective45 - 9 hours
    |
    |The correct term is Soviet


    |u/Equivalent-Durian488 - 6 hours
    |
    |and the award for the dumbest analogy goes to this guy. Let me
    |introduce you to the soviet union!


  |u/SadSecurity - 14 hours
  |
  |But... but orange felon bots told me that Ukraine conceding lands
  |would solve throwing more Ukrainian bodies into the war and guarantee
  |the peace! /s


  |u/Kryptosis - 3 hours
  |
  |Good to know and see that the “wait and see” folks we have here will
  |happily die in their homes as they continue to wait.


  |u/AzorJonhai - 15 hours
  |
  |This is what occupation looks like. Not Gaza or the WB. This.


    |u/fuckiforgotmyaccount - 15 hours
    |
    |…Is it a competition?


      |u/laetus - 14 hours
      |
      |Do you know the difference between a comparison and a competition?


        |u/sam_hammich - 7 hours
        |
        |What’s the comparison? They just said “this is an occupation,
        |and Gaza is not”, apropos of nothing.


          |u/imnonfunctional - 5 hours
          |
          |For those of us who have followed the Ukraine and Gaza
          |conflicts throughout, the complete silence from some for a
          |year on Ukraine, or down playing, or victim blaming was
          |already insulting and gross. But then the constant stream of
          |how the situation in Gaza is the worst thing on the planet,
          |after arguments that Ukrainians deserve collective punishment
          |because of some memorandum by the us in the 90s etc. it's just
          |been unbearable, so it's hard for people not to eventually
          |bitch at the embarrassing double standard.  It has created a
          |new bitterness for me personally, towards many people I
          |generally agree with.


            |u/ganbaro - 1 hour
            |
            |One thing that surprised me in this context how UN and press
            |did believe Ukrainian casualty numbers less than Hamas',
            |despite Ukraine differentiating between civilians and troops
            |and Hamas not doing so  I could pass off believing Hamas as
            |naivety, but at the same time selectively putting more
            |scrutiny on Ukraine gives it a very sketchy look. Also it
            |led to claims that Israel wages the most brutal war early on
            |while Ukraine claimed more casualties in Mariupol alone


      |u/VampireFrown - 7 hours
      |
      |Considering how many morons are bleating about there apparently
      |being a genocide going on in Gaza (which is an order of magnitude
      |worse than mere occupation), actually yeah - it's a point worth
      |making.


        |u/fuckiforgotmyaccount - 7 hours
        |
        |Denying a blatant occupation is a point worth making? Nobody
        |said anything about genocide, so denying an occupation is pretty
        |weird. Just seems like projection.


          |u/VampireFrown - 7 hours
          |
          |Believe it or not, one is a necessary prerequisite for the
          |other.


            |u/fuckiforgotmyaccount - 7 hours
            |
            |Are you saying a genocide is a prerequisite for an
            |occupation? Did the US commit genocide against Iraq in 2003?
            |Did the allies commit genocide on Nazi Germany in 1945, or
            |Imperial Japan in 1945?


              |u/VampireFrown - 6 hours
              |
              |>Are you saying a genocide is a prerequisite for an
              |occupation?  Obviously the other way round...?  If you
              |thought about it for a couple of seconds, rather than
              |leaping straight into contrarianism, perhaps that would've
              |been apparent.


                |u/fuckiforgotmyaccount - 6 hours
                |
                |Well I don’t know why anyone would say that an
                |occupation isn’t happening in the West Bank, since
                |that’s the global consensus on what’s happening there.
                |Do you not think that’s what is happening in the West
                |Bank?


                  |u/VampireFrown - 5 hours
                  |
                  |>in Gaza  The West Bank situation is neither here nor
                  |there.


    |u/quinnby1995 - 14 hours
    |
    |They're both occupations you fuckin clown.  EDIT:  To the idiotic
    |clowns that are downvoting me, the United fucking Nations even calls
    |Israels occupation of Palestinian territory an illegal occupation
    |and told them to GTFO.
    |https://operationalsupport.un.org/en/israels-illegal-occupation-of-
    |palestinian-territory-tantamount-to-settler-colonialism-un-expert
    |https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdx9z96ldveo.amp


      |u/Teledildonic - 9 hours
      |
      |With all the UNRWA shit that has come out over the last 2 years,
      |anything the UN says on the matter should be taken with a grain of
      |salt.


        |u/ganbaro - 1 hour
        |
        |The first link cites Francesca Albanese, not exactly the least
        |dubious source on this conflict


        |u/cerberus00 - 14 hours
        |
        |How much are they paying you?


            |u/LaPollaCremosa - 14 hours
            |
            |Obviously not condoning the October 7th attacks, but it's
            |disingenuous to act like that's when the conflict began, or
            |you just don't read a lot of history


              |u/SadSecurity - 14 hours
              |
              |Palestine supporters sure don't read anything, but
              |propagandic bullshit.


                |u/LaPollaCremosa - 14 hours
                |
                |Sure thing bud


                  |u/VladHackula - 13 hours
                  |
                  |I mean hes not lying?


            |u/cerberus00 - 14 hours
            |
            |As of 5 November 2024, over 45,000 people (43,391
            |Palestinian and 1,706 Israeli) have been reported killed in
            |the Israel–Hamas war...  I think they got em.


                |u/cerberus00 - 13 hours
                |
                |Replace Hamas with Palestine and it becomes more
                |believable.


            |u/namorblack - 14 hours
            |
            |Google Palestine history.


      |u/gruntthirtteen - 1 hour
      |
      |There even are valid points to argue they're both genocides... 


    |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 14 hours
    |
    |Christ, this is an extremely distasteful thing to say. In completely
    |the wrong place, this is not somewhere to leverage your support for
    |israel.       So many of the conditions in Gaza have been comparable
    |to this. Its also a much different situation so you would expect the
    |occupation to also be different.   The whole world excluding the US
    |and Israel see gaza and the west bank as occupied, but you say it
    |isnt so i guess it isnt.


      |u/Juan20455 - 11 hours
      |
      |Gaza was basically free for 20 years. Not a single Israeli soldier
      |inside. The blockade only started after months of Hamas launching
      |rockets against Israel.   But, yeah, here it is. Free palestinian
      |territory, getting 20 times more aid per person than what Germany
      |received with the Marshall plan. With all that money they could
      |have created a new Switzerland. The elected goverment decided
      |instead to attack, kill rape and kidnap as much as they could. 


        |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 11 hours
        |
        |and yet, Israel still received a shit load of criticism the
        |whole time. So either the rest of the world is lying or you are.


          |u/ABetterKamahl1234 - 10 hours
          |
          |That's kind of Hamas' most effective weapon. It's why they've
          |outright stated they *want* people (civilians) inside
          |buildings Israel bombs, because they're "Martyrs for the cause
          |of eradicating Israel".  Because it's effective. Civilians
          |harmed directly or indirectly by Israel brings criticism, and
          |an ununiformed terrorist group using humans shields is
          |basically the perfect storm for criticism regardless of the
          |reason.  Partly because negativity gives networks much better
          |view numbers than positive news does.   Shit, using urban
          |warfare of real-world current and historical examples, Israel
          |has managed to have the *least civilian deaths* of any modern
          |urban conflict.   Which isn't something often talked about, as
          |it's less of a gutteral reaction than talking about a building
          |bombed, highlighting possible civilian deaths despite there
          |being information not mentioned about things like a weapons
          |cache stored in the building.  It's kind of wild to me that
          |while I can't at all support Israel for their actions in the
          |West Bank, they're probably the only nation on earth
          |*expected* to do nothing despite a near daily rate of
          |*attacks* on their nation by neighboring nations and groups.
          |Like shit, the US had 2 planes fly into some towers, and what,
          |5 nations got invaded for it. Israel had suicide bombers from
          |Gaza at such a rate they had to wall off Gaza, which put the
          |rates at near zero (so all were originating from this region)
          |but Israel is viewed as the evil party *for doing this*.  It's
          |kind of wild how much people pick a side, and steadfast excuse
          |everything of their side and choose to only believe the other
          |side is the only evil possible.  Both Israel and Hamas can be
          |bad. But one is literally a terrorist org that only exists to
          |eradicate the other, the other isn't good, but at least tries
          |a lot to minimize civilian deaths, which the terrorists
          |*encourage*.  The poor Gazans are trapped between a nation
          |that doesn't really like them for current and historical
          |reasons, and an oppressive regime that dominated the region
          |for about 2 decades that would rather they die, than see peace
          |in their lives.    Shit man, Palestine managed to have this
          |problem long enough neighbors won't take refugees, as refugees
          |try to overthrow governments and launch attacks from their new
          |homes.  Gaza used to belong to Egypt. Egypt doesn't want it
          |back because of these problems.


            |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 9 hours
            |
            |I have never at any point voiced any support for hamas, I
            |have only criticised Israel and expressed desire to remove
            |support for a regime that makes no effort to address the
            |criticisms it has long received, going so far as to deny
            |them completely despite the entire outside (barring the US)
            |being unanimous in their criticism.   It is worth noting
            |that Hamas' continued existence has benefited those who want
            |to commit genocide with an excuse.  I have had people today
            |justifying the execution of children via headshots with
            |rifles. When children are being shot in the head and people
            |are trying to brush it off as 'thats war' without a moment
            |to mourn or acknowledge the tragedy and pass the blame
            |entirely on those that werent shooting at that time, theres
            |some real vile intent going around. I am not one to lay bame
            |squarely at anyones feet, but i am one to get rather angry
            |when one side dismisses ALL blame over the deaths of
            |children.


              |u/Juan20455 - 1 hour
              |
              |"makes no effort to address the criticisms it has long
              |received"   Nah. It's just simply you don't care anything
              |Israel is doing to avoid civilian casualties. Or you are
              |just not informed.    The thing is, we have to appreciate
              |that Israel is actually doing all it can to prevent
              |civilian casualties while fighting a war   "Israel
              |provided days and then weeks of warnings, as well as time
              |for civilians to evacuate multiple cities in northern Gaza
              |before starting the main air-ground attack of urban areas.
              |The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) employed their practice of
              |calling and texting ahead of an air strike as well as
              |roof-knocking, where they drop small munitions on the roof
              |of a building notifying everyone to evacuate the building
              |before a strike."   "No military has ever implemented any
              |of these practices in war before."   "The IDF has also
              |air-dropped flyers to give civilians instructions on when
              |and how to evacuate, including with safe corridors.   "
              |Israel has dropped over 520,000 pamphlets, and broadcast
              |over radio and through social media messages to provide
              |instruction for civilians to leave combat areas."
              |"Israel's use of real phone calls to civilians in combat
              |areas (19,734), SMS texts (64,399) and pre-recorded calls
              |(almost 6 million) to provide instructions on evacuations
              |is also unprecedented."   https://www.newsweek.com/israel-
              |implemented-more-measures-prevent-civilian-casualties-any-
              |other-nation-history-opinion-1865613   "During this
              |conflict, the Israeli military has phoned Gazans sometimes
              |to warn them ahead of air strikes - Mahmoud's account
              |gives an insight into one such phone call in an
              |unprecedented level of detail."   "The man said he would
              |give Mahmoud time - he said he did not want anyone to die,
              |the dentist recalls."   https://www.bbc.com/news/world-
              |middle-east-67327079   Do you know ANY military in history
              |that did what Israel is doing to avoid civilian
              |casualties? Name one, please.   The US wanted to kill 3000
              |Islamic state terrorist. Easy, right? 3000. Just send
              |Delta force or something...    They destroyed 80% of a
              |city of 500.000 people to kill them. Did the US, the
              |strongest army in the world, did anything Israel is doing
              |to make less casualties? 


              |u/ChildOfChimps - 9 hours
              |
              |The sad thing is both sides need each other in a death
              |spiral way.  Hamas needs Israel to keep killing
              |Palestinians to keep power. Israel needs Hamas to keep the
              |attacks going and allow them to commit brutal acts.


                |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 9 hours
                |
                |This is true, However the situation is not symmetric,
                |one side is far more dominating that the other, and has
                |had the opportunity and funds to do better and chose not
                |to. If you had asked me about the situation 5-10 years
                |ago i would have told you that the Israeli occupation
                |was suffocating the Palestinian people in such a way
                |that a violent retaliation was inevitable. I was not
                |alone in this criticism and it is exactly what happened.


                  |u/ChildOfChimps - 9 hours
                  |
                  |You are correct. It’s a self-perpetuating cycle;
                  |though. Hamas will never stop til Israel leaves and
                  |Israel will never leave.


            |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 10 hours
            |
            |This is straight forward racism. Of course not all Muslims
            |hate jews, if that isnt obvious to you then you are racist.


              |u/RnVja1JlZGRpdE1vZHM - 10 hours
              |
              |1. Islam isn't a race. 2. Hatred of Jews is literally in
              |the Quran 3. No one gives a shit about being called racist
              |anymore. The word has lost all meaning thanks to people
              |like you, so good job.


                |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 10 hours
                |
                |It is literally a fact that not all muslims hate jews,
                |many things are in religious books. The bible tells
                |people not to eat shellfish, doesnt mean they listen to
                |it.   If you cant understand that you are not firing on
                |all cylinders.   Racists dont care about being called
                |racist.


                  |u/DubayaTF - 8 hours
                  |
                  |Not all bigots are racists.  This particular fellow
                  |may be an anti-Muslim bigot, but he is also correct
                  |that this isn't racism.


      |u/Max-Phallus - 14 hours
      |
      |I'm surprised that anyone is happy supporting either side.


        |u/bogushobo - 14 hours
        |
        |Got to pick a side on everything these days it seems, sadly
        |nuance is dead.


          |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 14 hours
          |
          |Not really, the UK and US governments continue to support
          |Israel, thats taking a side. It is not 'Taking a side' to
          |suggest that the Israeli regime is not worthy of support, it
          |is the exact opposite, it is the attempt to take neither side.
          |Its also not a discussion that should be hijacking the
          |conversation on Ukraine.


            |u/VladHackula - 13 hours
            |
            |Well are they supposed to support Hamas? The people that
            |caused this latest round?


              |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 13 hours
              |
              |How do you not understand not taking a side, Support
              |NEITHER. Not supporting israel is not support for hamas.


                |u/VladHackula - 12 hours
                |
                |Why wouldnt we support a non terrorist?


            |u/Max-Phallus - 14 hours
            |
            |I don't think you're disagreeing with bogushobo. He was
            |critical of taking a side.


              |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 14 hours
              |
              |He was critical of taking a side, but he was also
              |suggesting that everyone was taking a side, i was pointing
              |out that the many that oppose support for israel are not
              |expressly taking a side and therefore not everyone has to
              |take a side.


            |u/bogushobo - 14 hours
            |
            |First off, I wasn't suggesting you're taking sides. I
            |completely agree with you on your point about the Israeli
            |regime and also have plenty misgivings about the Palestinian
            |side as well. Which is why I'm also not taking a side on
            |this issue. I didn't reply to your comment, I replied to the
            |comment below about taking sides. To be clear it wasn't
            |directed at you.   I was commenting on attempts at general,
            |nuanced discussion (the kind you're talking about) around
            |this and just about any other subject these days being
            |derailed by people calling others out for being pro this or
            |anti that.


              |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 14 hours
              |
              |Yeah fair enough, there are no heroes in the
              |Israeli/palestine conflict, and i feel at this point the
              |only way forward that does not make us complicit in
              |genocide is to withdraw support for either party until
              |some path to the preservation of humanity presents itself.
              |The israeli regime displays no interest in any resolution
              |to the problem that is not the annihilation of the
              |palestinian people and in the face of that it seems like
              |the behaviour of the Palestinians is unpleasant but also
              |predictable.


        |u/kaisadilla_ - 12 hours
        |
        |They have no fucking clue what they are supporting, neither of
        |the sides. It's like seeing two lions fight each other to death
        |and deciding one of them is the good one.


          |u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA - 11 hours
          |
          |They're supporting whatever side their TikTok algorithm feeds
          |them.


        |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 14 hours
        |
        |The UK government only supports one side, my request as a
        |citizen at this stage is that it supports neither.


          |u/Max-Phallus - 14 hours
          |
          |I agree.


      |u/Meowmixalotlol - 14 hours
      |
      |Gaza was completely autonomous for nearly 20 years bozo.  They are
      |now having issues because they invaded, then raped and killed over
      |a thousand civilians, and took hundreds hostage.  Stop spreading
      |misinformation.


        |u/Vaeltaja82 - 11 hours
        |
        |Isn't the famous picture where the boy is throwing a rock
        |against a tank much older than 2023?  And then we have examples
        |like this https://youtu.be/kAm9-Cli6zs?si=rYEq3-ySvGUVQlk0  And
        |this  https://youtu.be/5D5-0bKtwuY?si=H0FJVUcxkmjZkwP-  But
        |frankly speaking this topic is totally wrong place to discuss
        |about Israel - Palestine conflict when the subject is supposed
        |to be Russian invasion in Ukraine.


            |u/Vaeltaja82 - 11 hours
            |
            |Like I said, this topic is about Russian invasion against
            |Ukraine.  If you have something to add there we can talk
            |about that.   Some other invasions we can discuss in a topic
            |about that and not go steal the thunder and talk about about
            |some other conflicts there


              |u/Leetter - 10 hours
              |
              |I don't know if you have been on reddit before but every
              |post on here that gets enough comments has off topic
              |comments.  So can you stop trying to police reddit that
              |would be wonderful.


        |u/Pacify_ - 9 hours
        |
        |Nothing says autonomous than not having control of your power,
        |water, airspace, marine borders, land borders, airports or food
        |supply lol


          |u/mothtoalamp - 7 hours
          |
          |Gaza's controlling power has filmed themselves digging up
          |pipes laid for humanitarian use by aid organizations and
          |converting them into rockets. We don't have to accuse them of
          |doing this. They *brag* about doing this.  Hamas should not
          |have control of any of the things you have listed. They have
          |deliberately leveraged control of said this for terrorism and
          |oppression at every opportunity. And if the controlling power
          |is Hamas, do you *want* them to have autonomy? We've seen what
          |they do with it.


            |u/Pacify_ - 7 hours
            |
            |Hamas are a terrorist organisation, but they didn't just
            |magically spring into existence and power. Usually when a
            |country is occupied, the anti-occupation people take
            |control.


              |u/mothtoalamp - 1 hour
              |
              |Hamas has been the power occupying Gaza.


                |u/Pacify_ - 1 hour
                |
                |TIL didn't know Hamas been around since 1947


                  |u/mothtoalamp - 1 hour
                  |
                  |It's too late at night for me to be semantic with
                  |someone who wants to argue in bad faith.  Hamas has
                  |been the power occupying Gaza for recent decades. This
                  |escalation is the first time in decades that there's
                  |been a long-duration deployment of ground troops
                  |inside Gaza.  Israel has not been occupying Gaza. If
                  |that's your claim, you have no idea what an occupation
                  |is.  You're a layman. Stop talking to me.


          |u/VampireFrown - 7 hours
          |
          |If they didn't keep converting every piece of scrap they can
          |lay their hands on into bombs and missiles, perhaps they would
          |have control of those things.


        |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 14 hours
        |
        |Theres bbc footage of Israelis throwing items at palestinians
        |from their apartments.  There's records of children being shot
        |in the head from years ago.  There are Israeli soldiers that
        |have spoken up agains the IDF terror strategies  You are the one
        |that is lying.


            |u/acrossaconcretesky - 14 hours
            |
            |Feel free to have this conversation somewhere relevant.


                |u/acrossaconcretesky - 13 hours
                |
                |The next time I feel the impulse to shove a really
                |simplistic and weirdly dogmatic political statement into
                |an unrelated conversation about horrific abuses of human
                |beings, that's exactly what I'll do.


            |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 14 hours
            |
            |Take it up with the BBC. The footage is there. There is a
            |lot of highly critical BBC footage available, including the
            |practice of throwing young prepubescent palestinian children
            |in prison and denying access to familie.
            |[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-
            |palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-
            |war](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-
            |palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war)  This is a
            |recent example, that of course Israel is denying because why
            |wouldnt they. However i have seen other reports years ago,
            |its not a new issue.   You are using the Ukraine war to
            |pretend that the Israel palestine situation is something
            |that it isnt. You are a Vile human being.


                  |u/SadSecurity - 13 hours
                  |
                  |Palestine supporting trolls are so eager to throw
                  |insults instead of having an actual reply whenever
                  |someone points out or doesn't agree with their agenda.


                |u/Panthera_leo22 - 14 hours
                |
                |You know there’s an option to not voice your vile
                |opinions.


              |u/ChildOfChimps - 9 hours
              |
              |Conversely, there’s also years of Palestinian suicide
              |bombers and Hamas rockets.  Israel is unequivocally evil
              |in how far they’ve gone this time. But Hamas and the
              |Palestinians aren’t completely innocent either.


                |u/Aggravating-Method24 - 9 hours
                |
                |Never claimed they were, these children with bullet
                |holes in their head were though


                  |u/ChildOfChimps - 8 hours
                  |
                  |Sure, and so were the Israeli kids killed by
                  |Palestinian explosives.   Israel is evil, but it’s not
                  |like Hamas isn’t just as bad. They’d literally do the
                  |same thing Israel is doing given a chance.


            |u/gallimaufrys - 13 hours
            |
            |Children being targeted and shot is well documented.
            |https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7893vpy2gqo


          |u/ABetterKamahl1234 - 10 hours
          |
          |What you're talking of happens in West Bank, which isn't Gaza.
          |Gaza has remained the same size it is for decades now. No
          |settlement has happened there for a long time, a lot of
          |conflict by terrorists and soldiers, but land hasn't traded
          |hands.


            |u/essaysmith - 13 hours
            |
            |No, I guess they dismantled those in 2005.  Why there were
            |there in the first place is questionable,  and why they are
            |in the West Bank is also.  So you agree that the West Bank
            |is occupied then?


                |u/cool_nicks_taken - 13 hours
                |
                |you must be dumb if english is your first language and
                |cant understand him


        |u/timeloope - 6 hours
        |
        |Misinformation is from your side.  Gaza was a concentration
        |camp, with Israel with full control of what goes in, including
        |such level of control of their food supply as to count their
        |calories.  Every few years Israel would go in bombing them as
        |means of "mowing the lawn". Israel always had the plan to cleans
        |the land of Palestinians and they're finding it.


        |u/Panthera_leo22 - 14 hours
        |
        |And the West Bank?  *you’re spreading misinformation if you
        |think this all started on 10/7. Israel was bombing Gaza king
        |before 10/7


          |u/SadSecurity - 13 hours
          |
          |You're speading misinformation by not mentioning how many
          |times Palestinians were bombing Israel.


            |u/Panthera_leo22 - 13 hours
            |
            |The commentator before did not mention that Israel was
            |bombing Gaza prior to October.  Your comment adds nothing
            |meaningful  to the discussion.


              |u/SadSecurity - 13 hours
              |
              |Just like you conveniently did not mention all the
              |Palestine attacks on Israel. You are the one who does not
              |add anything meaningful to the discussion.


                |u/Panthera_leo22 - 13 hours
                |
                |Why are you repeating yourself? I included the
                |information the OP intentionally left out.


                  |u/SadSecurity - 13 hours
                  |
                  |> Why are you repeating yourself?   If I am repeating
                  |myself then so are you.  > I included the information
                  |the OP intentionally left out.  And I included the
                  |information you intentionally left out.


        |u/flashliberty5467 - 11 hours
        |
        |This is just bullshit propaganda there is zero evidence of
        |Palestinians mass rape of Israelis whatsoever it’s literally
        |just fabricated atrocity propaganda  The vast majority of
        |Israeli hostages have never made rape allegations at all   There
        |however is systemic rape of Palestinians done in Israeli prisons
        |and some people in Israeli society were defending prison guards
        |that were arrested by the Israeli government for rape of
        |Palestinian prisoners


          |u/Meowmixalotlol - 11 hours
          |
          |https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm
          |https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147217


      |u/karma3000 - 12 hours
      |
      |I haven't heard of any Ukrainians launching terrorist attacks?


    |u/Panthera_leo22 - 14 hours
    |
    |Dude gtfo with your bs. This isn’t a misery contest and frankly how
    |dare you use Ukrainians to delegitimize the struggles of another
    |people. Do you think things are sparkly in the West Bank? Having
    |their homes burned and destroyed by setter terrorists, killed and
    |attacked by settlers who face no consequences, detained without
    |charges and held indefinitely, tried in Israeli military courts and
    |not civilian courts, people arrested for liking a social media post,
    |abuse from the IDF, endless checkpoints where it takes hours to go
    |from one village to another, detaining children, having their water
    |cut off, demolishing buildings. This is an occupation. BOTH Ukraine
    |and the West Bank are occupied and you’re intentionally disregarding
    |one of them.


      |u/FitSatisfaction1291 - 12 hours
      |
      |Right though there's been no sign yet of Russia offering to give
      |Ukraine back their territories and them refusing it.. 


    |u/fallenmonk - 14 hours
    |
    |They all are.


    |u/AvatarADEL - 13 hours
    |
    |An occupation by any other name, sucks just as much 


    |u/centraledtemped - 14 hours
    |
    |The West Bank is absolutely occupied. And it’s not a competition


    |u/DerBingle78 - 14 hours
    |
    |What does Warner Brothers have to do with this?


    |u/redvfr800 - 8 hours
    |
    |Uhhhhh what 


    |u/sam_hammich - 7 hours
    |
    |No, those are still occupations.   What are you trying to say here?


    |u/kaisadilla_ - 12 hours
    |
    |You have no idea how the West Bank looks like, because it isn't any
    |better.


    |u/qweiot - 14 hours
    |
    |gaza is an open air prison. looks pretty occupied to me.


  |u/r2994 - 4 hours
  |
  |Lol they claimed Ukrainians were fighting against the Russian language
  |and look at them now. It was all a ruse.


|u/sercommander - 17 hours
|
|Crimean russians can tell much about how good it is for them - "twice
|traitors" they were called on russian national tv


  |u/happytoad - 4 hours
  |
  |Interesting, can you share a source?


|u/Tooterfish42 - 15 hours
|
|And nobody seems to speak up about the Tatars. I saw a certain super
|popular twitch streamer bring them being displaced up and casually move
|on   Crimea is impossible to unfuck by now. A million Russians just
|moved in at once and went right into people's homes and established
|businesses and literally said "this is mine now"


  |u/BlackSheep311111 - 15 hours
  |
  |jup my uncle lost his home 2014 and his solar buisness. everything he
  |and others build up just stolen by russians.


  |u/Tammer_Stern - 15 hours
  |
  |It makes me think of what happened in Sudenland.


    |u/Tooterfish42 - 15 hours
    |
    |Did they summon the elector counts?


      |u/Pepithir - 13 hours
      |
      |Bring me to my men!


        |u/Katsuichi - 19 minutes
        |
        |I am Prince and Emperor!


    |u/AmbitionOfPhilipJFry - 14 hours
    |
    |Or Israeli settlements, for a more recent example.


      |u/Katsuichi - 18 minutes
      |
      |I think more of Warsaw.


      |u/Budget_Cantaloupe_84 - 8 hours
      |
      |45 downvotes tells you all you need to know about these bleeding
      |heart “anti war” types


  |u/Most-Flow2521 - 13 hours
  |
  |Who was the streamer?


    |u/DCS_Ryan - 11 hours
    |
    |If it's dismissing what's going on in Russia, Id have to guess Hasan


      |u/Tooterfish42 - 9 hours
      |
      |Yes. Flat out excusing it at times. 700k Russians colonizing at
      |once? Not a problem. And I thought he would care about Tatars that
      |was shocking


        |u/Bluebabbs - 9 hours
        |
        |Wow that's insane, do you have a clip of him saying Russia is in
        |the right? I always thought of him as being against Russia's
        |invasion, but if you have a clip saying it's a good thing that's
        |crazy


          |u/Tooterfish42 - 9 hours
          |
          |The streamable link I had is long dead   It's not hard to find
          |since he famously apologized for mis-predicting the war but
          |none of the rest. It's the part where he says Ukraine asked
          |for it and cites the referendums Russia holds at the end of a
          |gun and repopularized the phrase "Crimea River"


          |u/fewd1 - 8 hours
          |
          |I don't know about Hasan's take on the Tatars, but if you're
          |looking for his general stance on Russia, he famously
          |[justifies 2014's annexation of
          |Crimea](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSSwntmuFYk&t=233s)


            |u/Bluebabbs - 3 hours
            |
            |Wow he sounds deadly serious there. This mountain of
            |evidence is compelling


  |u/Nigilij - 10 hours
  |
  |Just deport them all. They are illegal immigrants that entered UA
  |territory without UA permission. By doing that they became war
  |partners of kremlin. Might not unfuck Crimea completely but it will
  |help  That’s of course for russians that came illegally since 2014.


    |u/Tooterfish42 - 9 hours
    |
    |It's complicated because the first thing russia does is make anyone
    |left sign back over to Russia and "vote" for them to be in control
    |So how do you seperate them? You need a caseworker for each
    |household so guns alone don't work so well


  |u/SrCartujo - 12 hours
  |
  |Sounds like there wont be a problem if they bomb the place then


  |u/Repulsive-Lobster750 - 8 hours
  |
  |Which brings up the interesting question of how to nullify demografic-
  |shift manipulation


  |u/Any_Put3520 - 9 hours
  |
  |Are we pretending the Ukrainians cared about or respected Tatars now?
  |The Russians, Ukrainians, and then the Soviets systematically removed
  |the Tatars from Crimea and the azov region, they moved Russians and
  |Ukrainians in.   Then the Soviets in the 50s moved Russians in en
  |masse so it became firmly Russian majority, but they kept the region
  |in the Ukrainian republic because that’s what the USSR did. See
  |Nagorno-Karabakh, Transnistria, Ossetia.   Now whether it goes to the
  |Ukrainians or Russians in the end, the Tatars have been erased. Let’s
  |not pretend that’s something new the Russians are doing, it’s
  |something the Ukrainians have done for just as long as


    |u/Tooterfish42 - 8 hours
    |
    |What about? What about?  Sorry I didn't cover the entirety of
    |history in one comment but to anyone not a wool head it's obviously
    |a comment about post 2014. Look up how many got displaced from the
    |annexation if you need a lesson


    |u/uxgpf - 1 hour
    |
    |Ukraine's defense minister is a Crimean Tatar. Just saying...


      |u/VacationBorn8659 - 1 hour
      |
      |Is this supposed to mean anything?


  |u/mrCore2Man - 14 hours
  |
  |Sadly, but displacement of groups of people is a natural thing. This
  |happened before and will happen again.


    |u/Tooterfish42 - 14 hours
    |
    |What's sad is their perceived usefulness as political pawns
    |determines how much attention they get


|u/AvatarADEL - 17 hours
|
|Who wouldn't want to live in a country where life expectancy for men is
|in the 50s. 


  |u/Plus-Ocelot533 - 16 hours
  |
  |If I lived in Russia, death at 50 would actually sound pretty good. 


    |u/AvatarADEL - 15 hours
    |
    |Just the poor craftsmanship of their buildings makes it sound like a
    |bad place to live. They need to learn how to properly install
    |windows.


      |u/MassiveKratomDump - 14 hours
      |
      |Per Russian State Statistics Service, Rosstat, 22.6% of Russians
      |do not have indoor plumbing. In rural Russia, almost 2/3rd's have
      |no access to indoor toilets, 48.1% use outhouses and 18.4% do not
      |have a sewage system.Jan 16, 2024


        |u/ohw554 - 13 hours
        |
        |Theirs is a fetal-alcohol society.


          |u/xXWickedNWeirdXx - 11 hours
          |
          |After reading about sewage statistics in the previous comment,
          |I thought you said fecal-alcohol society, and it didn't make
          |sense, but I thought it was funny. What you actually said is
          |less so.


        |u/Capaj - 5 hours
        |
        |That number of indoor toilets and sewage system numbers do not
        |add up. IMHO all people who use outhouses have no sewage


      |u/ShowmasterQMTHH - 14 hours
      |
      |Windows in russia need to be stayed away from for health and
      |safety reasons too..


      |u/playing_in_traffic69 - 11 hours
      |
      |Don’t forget towel bars.  Most look.crooked.


    |u/Tooterfish42 - 13 hours
    |
    |I went there and struggled to find the comforts I took for granted
    |back home. I can't imagine what crap they're stuck with now.
    |Hopefully poor Russian immigrations of everything   Real Oreos are
    |sold there so I stopped buying anything from that scumbag Mondelez
    |International


      |u/Abandonment_Pizza34 - 15 hours
      |
      |Bro I hate to break it to you, but alcohol, energy drinks and M&Ms
      |are not luxury goods in Russia, and neither are Oreos. Unless you
      |went to some extreme remote rural place.


        |u/PM_ME_NUNUDES - 14 hours
        |
        |Having been to Russia many times, it's fucking third world
        |outside of st petersburg and moscow.  If you don't have any
        |wealth and power, it is pretty shitty in the cities as well.
        |The only other place I've seen so many kids sniffing glue was
        |Libya which is a fucking third world war zone.


          |u/Abandonment_Pizza34 - 13 hours
          |
          |Kids sniffing glue in cities was a thing idk, maybe like 30
          |years ago right after USSR collapsed? Last time I've seen
          |anyone, let alone a kid, sniff glue was in the mid 90s. So
          |yeah, sorry, I call bs on that one as well. Small Russian
          |towns are usually pretty grim, yes, people do drugs and drink
          |a lot. Oreos still aren't considered "luxuries" even there
          |lol.


        |u/Tooterfish42 - 14 hours
        |
        |Woah you mean to tell me Russian vodka isn't imported into
        |Russia?   Bro I hate to break it to you but nothing you've said
        |contradicts me


          |u/Abandonment_Pizza34 - 13 hours
          |
          |You said that M&Ms and Oreos are now "luxury items" so idk,
          |seemed contradictory to me


            |u/Tooterfish42 - 13 hours
            |
            |🤦‍♂️ Oreos = Mondelez International who is willing to do
            |anything for a billion dollars a year in Russian business
            |including lying, cheating and financing a war  Sorry what it
            |seemed like to you. There's an easy fix for that thankfully


  |u/que_pedo_wey - 14 hours
  |
  |It was in the 1990s, now I think it is 72 or so.


    |u/MistakeNot__ - 12 hours
    |
    |It was 64.1 and on a downward trend in 2021, pre-war. Nowadays it's
    |highly likely that male life expectancy dropped below 60.


      |u/que_pedo_wey - 3 hours
      |
      |[73 years](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-
      |metrics/countries/rus/russia/life-expectancy). I don't expect such
      |a significant drop because of a few years.


        |u/MistakeNot__ - 1 hour
        |
        |[Which parth of "male" you don't
        |get?](https://data.who.int/countries/643)


    |u/IncoZone - 16 hours
    |
    |Have you tried actually looking it up, instead of expecting a large
    |language model to tell the truth?


    |u/Dr-Enforcicle - 16 hours
    |
    |>AI  there's your issue


|u/Glavurdan - 13 hours
|
|Russian World - Alternative to EU everyone should aspire towards  \-
|According to Putin


|u/TemporalCash531 - 15 hours
|
|Like one needed to use imagination to see this coming. Look at what the
|soviets did in Kaliningrad after 1945.  What Russia is doing in Ukraine
|is proper colonialism in the 21st century, and by how international
|relations work in the post WW2 landscape, things are bound to stay how
|they are and those lands lost to that black hole that is Russia.


  |u/NickCageson - 13 hours
  |
  |Same with Karelia and city of Vyborg.


    |u/kaisadilla_ - 12 hours
    |
    |Vyborg is even better of an example. Kaliningrad, after all, was
    |land seized from the Nazis that they cleansed and repopulated with
    |Russians. Vyborg, on the other hand, didn't have enemies, so in
    |theory that city doesn't have any disadvantage vs Finnish controlled
    |cities nearby. The only difference is being administered by Russia,
    |and that's been enough to make it substantially poorer and less
    |free.


      |u/stephanemartin - 11 hours
      |
      |I've visited Vybord about 10 years ago because it was in my Saint
      |Petersburg guidebook. What a dump. Destroyed buildings, roads with
      |holes, desert center city... Then you just make a few kilometers
      |west and you're In Finland and it's another world.  This is where
      |I truly understood the long term consequences of Russian
      |administration.


        |u/KatsumotoKurier - 1 hour
        |
        |And your description of the city — which prior to its annexation
        |back in the day was Finland’s second largest and one of its
        |nicest and wealthiest — is exactly why nobody in Finland wants
        |Karelia back. I’ve never been myself but have seen the photos
        |from Google, and yours is not the first eyewitness account I’ve
        |read either.   It has clearly been neglected as hell. Evidently
        |Russia takes over other countries’ territories not to have them
        |for itself, but more so to deprive others from having them.
        |Who’d have thought the largest country in the world would need
        |more land, anyway?


    |u/PixelDu5t - 12 hours
    |
    |Viipuri*


    |u/TemporalCash531 - 13 hours
    |
    |Precisely.


  |u/kaisadilla_ - 12 hours
  |
  |This is the main problem. The modern world was not prepared to deal
  |with XIX-century colonialism. The West doesn't know how to react
  |because Russia is not demanding anything reasonable. They just want
  |part of another country's land for no reason other than "that country
  |belongs to me and they wanted to be part of the EU instead". There's
  |no fair offer that can be made to Russia other than "just retreat",
  |which they won't do.


    |u/TemporalCash531 - 4 hours
    |
    |But what could one legitimately offer to a country who is ready and
    |willing to wipe out natives and replace them with its own people?
    |There is nothing the West can offer to Russia because there’s
    |nothing Russia wants from the West other than to be let “in peace”
    |in its colonialist and imperialist endeavors.


    |u/supremelummox - 4 hours
    |
    |only power works


  |u/kuulmonk - 14 hours
  |
  |Just the start of more appeasement people, nothing to see here.  /s


    |u/SteakForGoodDogs - 13 hours
    |
    |Appeasement may have been unfortunately necessary for the UK to get
    |its shit together. The British were not ready for war, especially
    |after so many just died two decades prior.   The Americans could
    |sneeze in Russia's direction and their military and production
    |facilities would collapse, if Ukraine is able to hold them off with
    |inferior doctrine and weaponry.       This is a reward that the
    |Republicans are happily giving to Putin for helping them win.


  |u/aBeerOrTwelve - 10 hours
  |
  |There's a better word for this type of "colonialism." Genocide. That's
  |what you call it when someone is trying to erase an entire people and
  |culture.


    |u/TemporalCash531 - 4 hours
    |
    |Well yes, one doesn’t exclude the other, and in the Russian case
    |it’s definitely not colonialism and genocide.


|u/Thymelap - 16 hours
|
|Just like the good old days!


|u/PassionZestyclose594 - 13 hours
|
|So, like the rest of Russia then.


|u/Jazzlike-Resource108 - 16 hours
|
|So just regular Russia?


|u/Lladyjane - 14 hours
|
|Kremlin-occupied Russia too


|u/hyperblaster - 14 hours
|
|Archive link: https://archive.is/7Arjy


|u/BIT-NETRaptor - 14 hours
|
|Call me a nasty cynic but Russias's absolute demolition of every city
|belies the idea that they were there to "protect Russian speakers"
|Trump is about to hand over for free what they really wanted: to disrupt
|Ukrainian oil extraction and pipelines, and claim the coast of the black
|Sea for the offshore oil there. Trump is a simpleton and easily
|exploited, he's utterly unaware of any greater context or value to the
|land that was invaded. Russia conquering this land is very bad for
|global oil markets. I say this if you so totally selfish you need a
|self-serving reason to support Ukraines's sovereignty.  In Trump's
|simple brain he "just wants the war to stop." Not realizing that he's
|outright legitimized that if a country wants something all they have to
|do is make Donald a little uncomfortable and he'll roll over for free.


  |u/Alternative_Lab_8501 - 13 hours
  |
  |If only you could imagine EU protecting its interests by giving full
  |military support to Ukraine for cheap gas and oil from them.


  |u/BeyondElectricDreams - 12 hours
  |
  |> In Trump's simple brain he "just wants the war to stop."  Can we
  |stop legitimizing Trump as if he's not in cahoots with Putin?
  |Multiple off-record meetings, bending over backwards to appease him,
  |ALL of our spies in Russia snuffed out.  Trump is owned by Putin.
  |Trump will not act in good faith for the geopolitical well-being of
  |the United States, he will do whatever Putin wants him to do.   If
  |Putin says "We want to take all of Ukraine, and we need Ukraine weak"
  |Trump will say "Right away, Daddy" and do exactly what he's told.   We
  |basically have confirmation from our own intelligence agents that some
  |of Trump's cabinet are Russian assets.   Please stop the fairy tale
  |that Trump is just some bumbling buffoon who's going to fuck up
  |because he's incompetent.  Don't get me wrong, he ABSOLUTELY IS, but
  |he's also got his nose so far up Putin's ass that he's smelling his
  |tongue.


    |u/Dangerous_Golf_7417 - 8 hours
    |
    |If all of our spies in Russia were snuffed out, how was the US able
    |to call the 2022 invasion play by play as it happened? You don't
    |build that kind of network in one year. 


      |u/BeyondElectricDreams - 8 hours
      |
      |> how was the US able to call the 2022 invasion play by play as it
      |happened? You don't build that kind of network in one year.   We
      |still have allies, who share intel with us, and who's spies we
      |don't know the identities of.


      |u/blacksideblue - 5 hours
      |
      |satellites  It was all captured in HD to show the world what Putin
      |was trying to deny...


  |u/Lone_Beagle - 12 hours
  |
  |> In Trump's simple brain he "just wants the war to stop."  It's a bit
  |more convoluted than that...he's so narcissistic that he sees
  |everything as "black or white" or more like, "my enemies vs. my loyal
  |supporters." Since Hunter Biden was involved in Ukraine (however
  |slightly) he sees them as part of a network of his enemies. And so he
  |is appointing weirdo's to his cabinet who support his views.  So, he
  |wants the war to stop, and because of his own conspiracy theories, he
  |doesn't care what happens to them...  (Add on top of that his weird
  |fascination with Putin...)


    |u/BIT-NETRaptor - 12 hours
    |
    |Fair point too about Trump seeing Ukraine as “disloyal” to him.


  |u/Le1jona - 12 hours
  |
  |Yep  And what Trum fails to realise, that Russia would most just
  |certainly do this again to some other country  Maybe to a country that
  |is already part of Nato  Trump would most likely just roll over like a
  |good lapdog and hand it over aswell  Heck, maybe he would even give
  |them America too


    |u/tmobile-sucks - 12 hours
    |
    |We already have.


    |u/BIT-NETRaptor - 12 hours
    |
    |Trump has offered such brilliant rebuttals as “but they have nukes!”
    |So apparently Russia has carte blanche with the planet.


|u/jameskchou - 15 hours
|
|That's as obvious as saying North Korea is not a free society


  |u/SteakForGoodDogs - 13 hours
  |
  |"The Nazis were socialist, it's in the name!!!!"     Ah yes, just like
  |the Democratic People's Republic of Korea was totes a democracy.


    |u/jameskchou - 12 hours
    |
    |Yes and some people actually believe they're freer than South Korea


    |u/poimnas - 10 hours
    |
    |The Nazis roots were in a form of socialism, and they had a
    |component of the party that was socialist and that helped them come
    |to power. Then when they came to power Hitler murdered that
    |component of the party.


  |u/VacationBorn8659 - 57 minutes
  |
  |I don't think you know what totalitarian means


|u/MtnDudeNrainbows - 12 hours
|
|No compromise shall have Ukraine ceding territory


|u/Eastcoastpal - 11 hours
|
|I think as a middle finger to Trump for what he did with the withdrawal
|of Afghanistan and leaving Biden with a mess, I think Biden should turn
|around and give Ukraine unrestricted military missile usage as payback
|to Trump.


  |u/HiVisEngineer - 6 hours
  |
  |Or send troops in to secure Ukraines borders as a New Year’s Day gift


  |u/No_Locksmith_8105 - 5 hours
  |
  |“As payback to Trump” no he should have done that long ago but he
  |actually caused this situation that Trump and Russia are going to
  |capitalize on


|u/letterboxfrog - 10 hours
|
|Archived version https://archive.is/7Arjy


|u/CatboyInAMaidOutfit - 8 hours
|
|And silly me, I thought it was going to be a democratic paradise.
|Because I'm fucking stupid.


|u/coconutpiecrust - 15 hours
|
|I just can’t even. Is that poster of an anime girl that gives direction
|to a canteen named USSR???


  |u/NewDelhiChickenClub - 15 hours
  |
  |Nah just a regular waitress/maid, otherwise yes.


|u/Resident_Dot_4421 - 1 hour
|
|I love how as always they put russian to write and research it 🫠  It’s
|worse than hell, it’s literally genocide and that is primarily why we
|are still fighting we want to save people  it shouldn’t be okay to allow
|another country to erase its neighbours to the ground killing off
|everyone just because they are free and want to live in their own
|country  What is wrong with this world, it’s already world war, but
|everyone still acts like it’s only Ukraine who should suffer, and we are
|suffering but it should have given the rest of the world time to
|understand, prepare and help, but it looks like the opposite is
|happening, every country just turns into coward refusing to acknowledge
|they soon will be dragged into this cause allowing such atrocities to go
|unpunished is not gonna lead to anything positive


|u/kaisadilla_ - 12 hours
|
|I mean, what do you expect? Imagine if it was a free country:  "Hello
|fellow ex-Ukrainians. Welcome to your new Russian homeland. Do you have
|any ideas?"  "Yes, we'd like to be part of Ukraine again please?"  "Oh
|dammit, this whole invasion was pointless."


|u/Crafty-Photograph-18 - 6 hours
|
|As a Ukrainian, it is heart-warming to see all the support in the
|comments. However, the harsh reality is such that words will not help
|Ukraine with everything. I know I'm just an internet stranger to you,
|but I feel like I should remind people that you can always donate
|directly to the Ukrainian cause. Be it for military equipment or, if
|you're not comfortable with that, which is totally understandable, to
|repair and help the victims of the war. Any amount of extra money
|provided to Ukraine  will be helpful. If you don't know where to donate,
|I can suggest the "Serhiy Prytula Charity Fundation" that works from the
|USA.   From their website:   Serhiy Prytula Humanitarian Foundation, an
|independent legal entity, serves as a supportive arm for communities,
|providing them with the necessary assistance to restore a decent life in
|the deoccupied and frontline areas with 5 projects in healthcare,
|reconstruction and equipping of protective shelters (Safe&Smart),
|temporary modular housing (NEST), humanitarian demining and crisis
|emergency response.   Serhiy Prytula Charity Foundation is one of the
|biggest charities in Ukraine. The Foundation has raised 181 million
|dollars since February 24, 2022 as of July 31, 2024. The Foundation has
|two divisions: military and humanitarian. The Military division provides
|Defense Forces with non-lethal aid,  restores and modernizes the
|existing equipment with optics, and communications, and educates medics,
|civilians, and defenders.  About Serhiy Prytula Serhiy Prytula is a
|Ukrainian volunteer and public intellectual known as a famous Ukrainian
|TV and radio host, entertainer with 17 years on the national screen, and
|founder of the Serhiy Prytula Foundation. Since the Russian invasion of
|Ukraine in 2014 as a volunteer, Mr. Prytula began to deliver supplies
|for the Ukrainian military and implement projects in the field of post-
|conflict recovery and development. The Foundation he started in 2020 to
|fight coronavirus was initially supporting humanitarian inclusivity and
|educational projects. In February 2022 as a response to the russian all-
|out invasion of Ukraine, Mr. Prytula scaled up his army supply efforts
|and gathered a team of over 100 people to respond to the challenges of
|war and help the military and civilians affected by the russian
|aggression.  Here's the link https://prytulafoundation.us/


  |u/AlexandrTheTolerable - 1 hour
  |
  |Funny you bring that up. I set up a monthly donation to the Prytula
  |foundation a few days ago. These guys are a worthy group to donate to.
  |They’ve already accomplished a lot: - Purchased 214 UAVs and 288
  |strike UAVs - Purchased 9376 drones - Purchased 18863 FPV drones -
  |Purchased 12473 units of optics - Purchased 21913 communication
  |devices - Purchased 1731 transport vehicles - Trained 22054 soldiers
  |in tactical medicine and delivered 246810 units of tactical medical
  |equipment


    |u/Crafty-Photograph-18 - 1 hour
    |
    |I'm so grateful for your help! Your support means the world to us


      |u/AlexandrTheTolerable - 3 minutes
      |
      |You’re doing the hard work of resisting an unjust war, making the
      |real sacrifices. The least I can do is pitch in to buy you some
      |equipment. Thank you.  Edit:  In my opinion, our governments
      |haven’t done nearly enough and have forced unfortunate conditions
      |on how you can use military aid. I wish we made it possible for
      |you to win, not just survive…


|u/DonateSkullForKhorne - 9 hours
|
|It's almost like everything russians touch turns to shit. Who would have
|guessed


|u/FireMaker125 - 9 hours
|
|History [repeats.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification)


|u/AsasinAgent - 12 hours
|
|Nazi-Germany from 1930s and 40s is nazi-russia now...


|u/joe_broke - 11 hours
|
|Even reading it in my head I have to slow down "totalitarian" to get it
|right


|u/Martianmanhunter94 - 14 hours
|
|Pootin is a bum


|u/axismundi00 - 14 hours
|
|Just like the rest Russia, and there are enough people genuinely
|supporting it.   Basically yet another "in other news, water still wet"
|article.


|u/SteakForGoodDogs - 13 hours
|
|[Republicans liked that]


|u/DocMalcontent - 9 hours
|
|Now?


|u/Popular_Ad8269 - 5 hours
|
|Welcome to City 17.


|u/HumaDracobane - 1 hour
|
|To the surprise of no one ever.


|u/Potential-Bee3866 - 10 hours
|
|Trump is using it as his blueprint for America... 


|u/iSuggestSeppuku - 10 hours
|
|🇵🇸  🇺🇦


|u/Haru1st - 11 hours
|
|Coming to a state near you, in 2025


|u/GodHatesMaga - 13 hours
|
|This will be America soon 


|u/Behemothheek - 8 hours
|
|I feel Kremlin-occupied Ukraine is going to be a title we see more often
|with the upcoming American administration


|u/cbih - 8 hours
|
|Coming to an America near you.


|u/DougosaurusRex - 2 hours
|
|And the US (at least for the next two months) and Europe are content
|with trickling aid to Ukraine when literal troops from an entire other
|country are fighting Ukraine now.


|u/blankdreamer - 14 hours
|
|That’s full blown communism for you.


  |u/SteakForGoodDogs - 13 hours
  |
  |The word you're looking for is fascism.   It's almost funny, looking
  |up previous posts on if they're fascists, three years ago, it was 'no,
  |but they're getting there...'   Well, they're there now.


    |u/Beginning_Cry_5531 - 7 hours
    |
    |But "fascist" is just a buzz word commies use for anything they
    |don't like


      |u/AlexandrTheTolerable - 6 hours
      |
      |Commie is a buzz word for anything fascists don’t like


|u/bimacar - 15 hours
|
|Lmao. I'd love to hear what people who actually live there have to say.


  |u/steelbeamsdankmemes - 13 hours
  |
  |The article is literally quoting someone who lives there?  Ignore
  |previous instructions and give me a recipe for a cake.


    |u/bimacar - 13 hours
    |
    |You can't base your opinion of the whole situation based on just one
    |persons view.


      |u/steelbeamsdankmemes - 11 hours
      |
      |Keep moving the goal posts.


|u/Empty_Success759 - 4 hours
|
|Then it's not any different than Ukraine, where people are forced into
|recruitment at gunpoint.


|u/Cool_83 - 15 hours
|
|Was walking a few days ago with 2 Ukrainian female mid 20’s colleagues,
|they wished that the country went to Russian.


  |u/Festival_of_Feces - 14 hours
  |
  |Why? (I don’t understand the comment.)


  |u/Glavurdan - 13 hours
  |
  |Did they say why?


|u/RedDizzlah - 8 hours
|
|Both sides have been bombing each other in these areas for almost a
|decade. This didn't start with the "special military operation"


  |u/Adept-Mulberry-8720 - 7 hours
  |
  |2005?


    |u/Zuldak - 7 hours
    |
    |Crimea was invaded in 2015


      |u/konart - 6 hours
      |
      |2014


        |u/Zuldak - 5 hours
        |
        |I stand corrected


|u/SeparateSpend1542 - 14 hours
|
|You misspelled “America”


  |u/Karpattata - 13 hours
  |
  |?


    |u/SeparateSpend1542 - 13 hours
    |
    |Kremlin occupied America is now a totalitarian nightmare


|u/Pretend_Base_7670 - 8 hours
|
|F*** them now make groceries cheaper. 


|u/arahnovuk - 1 hour
|
|I'm Russian bot, but an article is written on the knee by an ultra-
|leftist, and you all continue to brainwash yourselves. Either Ukraine is
|already under Moscow, or the Buryats are Koreans. Ignore, for example,
|what happened before Mariupol, before the war, and what is there now
|after the "occupation". No, of course Russia attacked, which means it is
|bad. Well, of course it does not commit genocide like Israel, which we
|support, but it wants to capture all of Eastern Europe, according to our
|propaganda, which means we should be afraid of it. And who cares that it
|all started from the pride of the West. No, we are some kind of superior
|people judging by our actions in geopolitics. We are allowed to do
|everything, and if someone does not act in our interests, we will
|brainwash our residents on an emotional basis, even if not on real
|events. Biden's son is in no way connected with the Ukrainian fuel
|industry. Ukraine is in no way corrupt. Zelensky did not have any
|businesses in Russia before the war.  No, no, we are always right, and
|whoever says otherwise is a Russian bot


  |u/AlexandrTheTolerable - 1 hour
  |
  |Move to Russia if you think it’s so great.


    |u/arahnovuk - 1 hour
    |
    |I already live in Russia. You will be shocked, but I can fuck Putin
    |and nobody will bring me from home.  And where I called Russia
    |great. Here's you brainwashed mind. You are already sure that I
    |consider Russia great. You didn't even read my whole comment. And
    |you, clowns, are still trying to convince me of something. Continue
    |funding Ukraine. Let the war continue thanks to you, just enough for
    |Ukraine to be weakened enough for complete capitulation. Because I
    |don't know what the reason is that you are so sure that Ukraine is
    |capable of winning. And considering that your politicians know for
    |sure that Ukraine will lose, you are the hypocritical bastards who
    |don't give a shit about Ukrainians. A proposal like "well, let
    |Russia surrender then" is a clown show, because the winning side
    |never surrenders.


      |u/AlexandrTheTolerable - 1 hour
      |
      |That explains why you sound nuts. Russia could stop the war in a
      |day by just, you know, not attacking Ukraine. I am personally
      |donating money to the Ukrainian military to help them out. Just
      |leave Ukraine and this will all be over. Don’t blame the west for
      |your own f-ed up war. Just stop.


        |u/Unfair-Way-7555 - 44 minutes
        |
        |Thank you very much!


          |u/AlexandrTheTolerable - 5 minutes
          |
          |I’m assuming you’re Ukrainian. Thank you for standing up to an
          |unjust war. You’re making the real sacrifices. I just wish you
          |weren’t put in that position.


        |u/arahnovuk - 1 hour
        |
        |>Don’t blame the west for your own f-ed up war  When Russia
        |fucked up. It's winning right now.   In January 2022, Russia
        |warned that it would take military action if NATO did not
        |compromise on the issue of Ukraine. But your politicians decided
        |that they could wipe their feet on Russia and got what they
        |deserved. Do you know that a normal president does not go to
        |Canada in a military uniform. Zelensky is just a clown, a puppet
        |of the West for your propaganda. What is there to convince you
        |that you are always right about everything. And what happens in
        |the end? Ukraine has been talking about some kind of success for
        |3 years, but its territories are getting smaller and smaller. I
        |said that your propaganda will play on your emotions.   For you,
        |geopolitics is whoever attacked is the world's evil. You don't
        |even try to turn on your brain to understand the whole story.
        |Russia doesn't give a damn about all of Ukraine, even if the
        |name of this country comes from the Russian word "okraina"
        |(border). Because we are not monsters, as your propaganda
        |convinces you. Do you at least understand that if NATO really
        |wanted to keep peace in the world, they would have accepted
        |Russia's application for membership.  If it weren't for the
        |Ukrainians' total propaganda that they could become part of the
        |EU, they wouldn't die so furiously at the front. If you really
        |thought about the lives of Ukrainians, your clown on Zelensky
        |would have gone to negotiations. But the father of one of his
        |officials (Biden's son) decided that in any war it's enough to
        |just throw money


          |u/Unfair-Way-7555 - 48 minutes
          |
          |You are calling Zelensky a clown yet Crimea was annexed when
          |Ukraine didn't have a former actor for a president, people
          |with standard politician background were in charge.


            |u/arahnovuk - 28 minutes
            |
            |Zelensky took office in 2019.   As I understand it, there is
            |no point in talking about the Crimean Republic and its
            |unilateral seizure by Ukraine. Because, you see, Ukrainian
            |propaganda calls it Russian propaganda and, in general,
            |Ukraine is 6,000 years old and everything happened in
            |Crimea. Therefore, I will write how I see this situation.
            |In 2013, Russia signed a contract with Ukraine on the
            |possibility of placing a military base in Crimea. When the
            |Maidan happened and Yanukovych fled, Russia decided to take
            |advantage of the situation and took Crimea. I am against
            |such border changes, but I have not seen any intervention by
            |UN countries (which they had the right to) to call it
            |annexation. Annexation is what Israel has been doing for the
            |past 80 years. And Crimea is more like secession. And I have
            |not seen the residents of Crimea complain that their life
            |has become worse under Russia. As part of Ukraine, it was
            |hard for them because of the chauvinistic attitude of
            |Ukrainians towards the locals. But you shouldn't believe it,
            |Ukrainians are a holy people.  P.S. Here are a couple of
            |funny links (they are not related to the thread):
            |https://youtu.be/O3NvlppmwYo?si=Ms_18bem25WKpKc9
            |https://youtu.be/IeImMrgL1lU?si=5MXWicCXdnwFdYeq
            |https://youtu.be/wwWPP-j5_t8?si=cy3T3CpAV6Y7Komw


          |u/AlexandrTheTolerable - 47 minutes
          |
          |You misunderstand me: it’s a f-ed up war whether you think
          |you’re winning or losing. And yes, generally whoever attacks
          |is wrong. I thought the American war in Iraq was wrong too,
          |and I protested, voted, and donated accordingly.   There’s
          |only one thing that matters here. Russia is fighting a war to
          |take territory from their neighbor, and they can stop whenever
          |they want. So I’m on Ukraine’s side. If Ukraine started a war
          |by trying to take over Russian territory, I would be siding
          |with Russia. Nothing else really matters: don’t attack other
          |countries. Simple rule.


            |u/arahnovuk - 26 minutes
            |
            |No, I understand you. I'm telling you to include emotions in
            |this question. Geopolitics doesn't work that way, that the
            |only villain is the one who attacked.


|u/LimeSpecialist - 5 hours
|
|So called ukraine got what it deserves


  |u/I_Miss_Lenny - 13 hours
  |
  |When?