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Russia wants Kursk back before negotiations. Ukraine isn’t budging.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/11/16/russia-wants-kursk-ba...
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|u/Mexer - 19 hours
|
|And Ukraine wants its territories back before negotiations. Suck a fat
|dick.


  |u/Arashmickey - 14 hours
  |
  |Kursk? Three words: "New territorial reality"  Despicable words no one
  |should use, but if you're currently under occupation and there's no
  |better option...


    |u/aDragonsAle - 13 hours
    |
    |Sounds like they should just Take Moscow   If they can't take it,
    |then just bomb it til Russia quits


      |u/salad_spinner_3000 - 13 hours
      |
      |Like 1000 mercenaries almost basically did. Russia is not the big
      |bad everyone portrays them as. But, you know, nukes.


        |u/yoguckfourself - 12 hours
        |
        |It’s also incredibly irresponsible to downplay them as a global
        |threat


          |u/ApproximatelyExact - 11 hours
          |
          |when they just finished invading the US especially


            |u/Hairy_Reindeer - 11 hours
            |
            |Can't invade the US from the sea or air. They came through
            |communications infrastructure, traitors and the banking
            |system.


              |u/wowaddict71 - 9 hours
              |
              |Collapsing from within, like many other empires.


              |u/space_for_username - 9 hours
              |
              |~~Guided missile~~ Unguided Idiot hits White House


              |u/dead_ed - 9 hours
              |
              |you forgot churches


                |u/Banana_Fries - 6 hours
                |
                |How has Russia invaded US churches? (genuinely curious
                |as I'm mostly ignorant to this sort of news)


                  |u/Philip_Marlowe - 6 hours
                  |
                  |There may be definitive examples of this out there,
                  |but generally speaking, it's more of a transitive
                  |property thing.   It's well-documented that Russia has
                  |its hooks in the Republican Party, which also has a
                  |very strong Christian conservative influence. Hardcore
                  |Christians almost exclusively vote Republican,
                  |therefore, they vote in favor of Russian-friendly
                  |policy that the Republicans push through government.


              |u/SeedsOfDoubt - 9 hours
              |
              |They're not taking our best


                |u/mechtaphloba - 8 hours
                |
                |That's what makes it a vulnerability exploitation


              |u/yoguckfourself - 8 hours
              |
              |Just like Hamas


            |u/magicone2571 - 7 hours
            |
            |What I don't get is what they want with us. Like what is the
            |end game here? To enslave the human race and worship Putin?


              |u/ApproximatelyExact - 7 hours
              |
              |It's not that complicated. Interest rate of russian
              |central bank is 21%, sanctions cause many assets to be
              |under control of DOJ.      Strengthening crypto, weakening
              |the dollar, and as a bonus ensuring the US no longer sends
              |aid to Ukraine means putin can have a chance at winning
              |the war.


                |u/magicone2571 - 6 hours
                |
                |I don't think that's going to happen personally. No
                |matter how much they destabilize the US.


                  |u/ApproximatelyExact - 6 hours
                  |
                  |I don't think he'll win but he still has to do
                  |everything he can to try, it's his only chance to stay
                  |in power. Unfortunately I think the US still ends up
                  |weaker (probably helping China) even if it doesn't
                  |work.


        |u/ieatthosedownvotes - 12 hours
        |
        |This is why Biden should give Ukraine a few dozen nukes as a
        |presidential parting gift.


          |u/Suspicious_Bicycle - 10 hours
          |
          |Well since Putin violated the agreement where Ukraine traded
          |it's nukes for peace, how could Putin complain if Ukraine got
          |some nukes back?


          |u/Least-Cup79 - 11 hours
          |
          |lol wtf....???????


            |u/Thelango99 - 11 hours
            |
            |That would be quite the move.


            |u/Amazing-Treat-8706 - 9 hours
            |
            |Instant deterrence.  You’re acting like they’d nuke each
            |other.  In reality it would neutralize russias nuclear
            |threat completely.


        |u/aDragonsAle - 13 hours
        |
        |I think if there's enough Intel and m40a5's with plenty of ammo,
        |the nukes wouldnt be too big of a worry either.


        |u/Lukas316 - 6 hours
        |
        |Which we wonder if they even work.


      |u/xtothewhy - 4 hours
      |
      |I mean, honestly. At what point, does Ukraine say fuck it, this is
      |bullshit.


      |u/SomaforIndra - 12 hours
      |
      |General Arm Chair Idea:  Ukraine pulls all the way back saves
      |Resources Waits, until just be before negotiations complete, then
      |pushes all the way to Kazakhstan, snipping off Russia's entire
      |dick... and all supply lines and oil etc.  OF course Russia will
      |tear up the agreement, but who cares? haha As though they would
      |have honored it anyway.  And what an epic slap in the face
      |beautiful psychological warfare.


      |u/dpzdpz - 13 hours
      |
      |It worked against Hanoi /s


        |u/emurange205 - 9 hours
        |
        |They quit bombing Hanoi every time the North pretended that they
        |wanted to negotiate.


      |u/CTRL_ALT_DELIGHT - 7 hours
      |
      |The only good thing about orange man coming back is that you
      |little dweeby warhawks will have to find something else to jerk
      |off to. I can’t wait until this war is over.


  |u/Thymelap - 18 hours
  |
  |"We'll leave when you leave"


    |u/LeoThePom - 16 hours
    |
    |No, you hang up. ☺️


      |u/Temujhin - 16 hours
      |
      |No, you first


        |u/Few-Percentage-3426 - 15 hours
        |
        |“I drone you” “No I drone you more”


          |u/elralpho - 15 hours
          |
          |You would tell me if you wanted to annex a cuter former soviet
          |republic, right?


            |u/tinypluto - 13 hours
            |
            |Are you on about that again... I *told* you that Estonia
            |means nothing to me.  We just share a boarder.


              |u/Osiris32 - 4 hours
              |
              |Estonia doesn't like you, anyway! She's seeing NATO now,
              |and quite happy.


          |u/Myyrti - 13 hours
          |
          |I drone you always one more as you drone me


            |u/Few-Percentage-3426 - 10 hours
            |
            |I drone you 3000


          |u/blacksideblue - 8 hours
          |
          |"Would you intercept me?'  "I'd intercept me"


        |u/ScottNewman - 13 hours
        |
        |Nyet


          |u/fastRabbit - 12 hours
          |
          |How bout neow?


      |u/pyr666 - 13 hours
      |
      |and. then. they. *fucked.*


    |u/Hyperious3 - 11 hours
    |
    |India has the chance to come out as a real geopolitical badass here
    |and act as the supervisor force of a mutual demobilization by both
    |Ukraine and Russia from occupied territory.  China and the US are
    |too far to either camp to be trusted, and no one else really has the
    |capability to do a large deployment like that.


  |u/InsanelyAverageFella - 16 hours
  |
  |This should be the literal words in the official reply.


    |u/tilmanbaumann - 16 hours
    |
    |That literally is the Ukrainian peace offer at this point


      |u/waiting4singularity - 14 hours
      |
      |so thats why they went all in on that campaign, i guess.


  |u/Valentiaga_97 - 13 hours
  |
  |Back to the border of 2014, before the annexation of crimea


  |u/lord_dentaku - 16 hours
  |
  |Yeah, including Crimea.


  |u/IllustriousAct1666 - 14 hours
  |
  |Exactly, return the territory taken from ukraine and you get kursk
  |back.


    |u/Juxtapoisson - 7 hours
    |
    |IDK, seems like Ukraine should demand for there to be new country so
    |that it doesn't have russia on its border.


      |u/dlanod - 5 hours
      |
      |Russia just invaded through Belarus. Having a puppet state in
      |between means nothing.


      |u/Aptosauras - 1 hour
      |
      |Ukraine successfully defends Kursk Oblast, takes Belgorod as well.
      |Renames the area North Ukraine and treats it as a self governing
      |territory of Ukraine.   Ukraine gets accepted into NATO, but
      |leaves North Ukraine under the protection of Ukraine but not NATO.
      |Boom, Russia has a buffer state that isn't a part of NATO, but is
      |defended by Ukraine.


  |u/ieatthosedownvotes - 12 hours
  |
  |They should also give Ukraine their nukes back. And all the people
  |that they kidnapped. Then negotiations.


  |u/phormix - 15 hours
  |
  |Yeah, seems like a good point of those negotiations would be trading
  |back territory. Ukraine would be foolish to give up something for
  |nothing


  |u/cornmonger_ - 15 hours
  |
  |a big ol' blue and yellow dick


    |u/SeparateImpact4 - 14 hours
    |
    |Ewwww….


  |u/VoidOmatic - 12 hours
  |
  |Yup Ukraine should actually get more land for Russia in any
  |negotiations. They were just minding their own business before Putins
  |'special' military operation.


  |u/kaisadilla_ - 13 hours
  |
  |Yeah, what kind of bullshit is this? "First you give me everything I
  |want and then we start talking about what you'll give me in addition
  |to that to stop attacking you."


    |u/alliewya - 7 hours
    |
    |The kind of bullshit you get when you own the incoming president of
    |unified America


  |u/Techn0ght - 13 hours
  |
  |"What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine".


    |u/Nymaz - 6 hours
    |
    |Russia: "Your country my choice."


  |u/justoneanother1 - 12 hours
  |
  |It's quite fitting that musk now defacto secretary of state in the US,
  |because this is his kind of childish logic.


  |u/thisideups - 8 hours
  |
  |🤌👍


  |u/Goku420overlord - 8 hours
  |
  |Agreed. The hypocrisy.


  |u/dared3vil0 - 7 hours
  |
  |Kursk can be the Ukrainian Kaliningrad.


  |u/ElliotAlderson2024 - 12 hours
  |
  |Ukraine isn't in any position to negotiate if Russia breaks through in
  |the Donbas.


|u/VR_Zeus - 20 hours
|
|Wait what ? Russia want territory back but want to keep ulraine lands?
|... get out of here with this none sense


  |u/ricobirch - 19 hours
  |
  |It's because they think Kursk will be retaken.  Putin will keep
  |throwing North Koreans at it until the lines shift back over the
  |border.


    |u/WindHero - 18 hours
    |
    |Also because regaining Kursk through negotiations rather than
    |military force is a huge humiliation. They won't negotiate before
    |they have Kursk. Asking for Kursk in a negotiation would make them a
    |laughing stock in the current "strong man" led world order.


      |u/Sunnysidhe - 15 hours
      |
      |The biggest issue is that to get Kursk back they would have to
      |give up claims to some of the Ukrainian land they have made.  If
      |they give up claims to one piece then they are admitting that they
      |don't have any right to any of it.  They have no right to any land
      |in Ukraine,  but they seem to believe it is their right.  Even to
      |parts they do not even hold.  That's the level of crazy you are
      |dealing with.


        |u/Longjumping_Whole240 - 13 hours
        |
        |>That's the level of crazy you are dealing with.  Another crazy
        |part, they written 5 Ukrainian oblasts including Crimea as
        |"Russian territory" in their constitution. Even made Sevastopol
        |a federal city, a status shared with Moscow and St Petersburg.


          |u/Sunnysidhe - 13 hours
          |
          |They are basically just doubling down with "If I say it is
          |mine, then it is mine"


            |u/Startech303 - 12 hours
            |
            |I remember something like this at school, when I was about 5
            |years old


              |u/GalFisk - 11 hours
              |
              |Which is tragically the emotional age of many people in
              |power these days.


                |u/CrustyM - 10 hours
                |
                |Because geopoliticaly, that's how it works. When states
                |decide to ignore inconvenient social or political
                |contracts/constructs, it boils down to might makes
                |right.    You throw your flag in the ground and say,
                |what the fuck you gonna do about it?   Thankfully, those
                |wonderfully crazy Ukranians did the exact same to
                |Russia. It's not a fair exchange because I'd argue
                |Russia has captured more value overall but it's
                |incredible leverage.


          |u/mothtoalamp - 7 hours
          |
          |They did this specifically so that they could have a formal
          |(no matter how flimsy) justification for keeping the
          |territory. It makes it harder to explain to someone uneducated
          |in or unaware of the issue why it isn't okay, particularly
          |anyone Russian.


        |u/Ambitious-Reindeer62 - 11 hours
        |
        |The one piece is reaaal!


      |u/BubsyFanboy - 17 hours
      |
      |Yeah, that would be a surrender to the "other guys'" belief.


      |u/jpw0w - 17 hours
      |
      |>Asking for Kursk in a negotiation would make them a laughing
      |stock in the current "strong man" led world order.  Except who are
      |the actual ''strong man''? North Korea? China? lol. Russia is one
      |if not the only trying to put on that facade, and we're seeing how
      |well that's going for them


        |u/Easy-Sector2501 - 16 hours
        |
        |There's a 250 lb oompaloompa about the take the White House that
        |qualifies..


          |u/fallwind - 16 hours
          |
          |He lost weight?


            |u/dxrey65 - 15 hours
            |
            |You rarely see people who are very old and very fat. One
            |reason is the effect of obesity on life expectancy, but
            |another reason is that it is physically very hard for a body
            |to maintain an obese state in old age. Losing weight is a
            |part of the process of decline in advanced age.


            |u/Sinaaaa - 15 hours
            |
            |yes actually, looks way less bloated


              |u/WolfgangDS - 13 hours
              |
              |That would be the girdle.


            |u/thefifththwiseman - 16 hours
            |
            |He's between diarrhea and McDonald's so it's around that
            |number


          |u/2legit86 - 10 hours
          |
          |Still better than the alternative.  Miss “in my term” blah
          |blah blah.  She’s the vice president of the country.  Now is
          |her term and they’re doing absolutely nothing.


        |u/jdm1891 - 6 hours
        |
        |People always seem to think China is a big bad that is Russias
        |greatest friend.  China isn't a Russian friend. They like the
        |west more than they like Russia. They tolerate Russia because it
        |weakens the west. A weaker west is a stronger China. But they
        |don't want a weak west, they want an equal west (or ideally,
        |they want the west to be a "near peer").  That only works to a
        |point though. China doesn't want war, they prefer diplomacy
        |(aggressive diplomacy but still diplomacy). They'll never
        |declare on Taiwan - they will just slowly gain influence over
        |it's people until it turns. They'll promise the Taiwanese
        |whatever they want. Generally they keep their promises too, a
        |strategy the US has not yet figured out, because people will see
        |that they keep their promises and make bigger pacts where China
        |gets more.  So if China is so nice, why do they help Russia?
        |Simple: They want the war to continue so Russia is weakened. If
        |you imagine power as a finite resource, russia and the west
        |fighting and losing it means more for China.   Their strategy is
        |essentially exactly what the US's strategy was in WW1 and WW2.
        |Back the side with the most to lose and give them just enough
        |support for them to bleed themselves dry. Exactly what the west
        |is currently doing in fact. Because the West is giving Ukraine
        |weapons, China sneakily gives Russia some weapons so more
        |Russians die. If China gave Russia no help, the war would be
        |more one sided and that is bad for China. Making it as equal as
        |possible is good for China. China does what is good for China.
        |If the Russians were to suddenly get a lot more power, and had a
        |chance of increasing their geopolitical influence greatly by
        |winning. Such that their gained power is more than what was lost
        |by attrition - just you watch how quickly they see China's
        |wrath.  China gives Russia weapons not because they want Russia
        |to win, but because they want Russia to fight... as long as
        |possible. To lose as much as men possible. To make the Russian
        |population as war weary as possible. To make Putin as weak as
        |possible.  What about Ukraine? Why don't they give Ukraine
        |weapons? The west is already doing that for them. They don't
        |want their "ally" getting suspicious either.  And the west? Why
        |would China prefer the west over Russia? The west has money.
        |China likes money. A strong Russia is still an oligarchal Russia
        |which is not easy to trade with. China doesn't really like
        |Russia as a trade partner because of that. A weak west wouldn't
        |have a big economy which would be bad for China, they want that
        |money. A stronger west than China though - has power over China,
        |which reduces their ability to profit from it.   So in regards
        |what is the best for China? A very weak Russia in a war to keep
        |them occupied, and a peer or near peer west which has a massive
        |economy but is just weak enough to prevent the west from taking
        |advantage of China. (Preferably  just weak enough for China to
        |take advantage of the west like what was done to them over the
        |last 200 years).  China's ideal world order: China, West
        |(profitable trading partner), Britain (revenge), Russia (might
        |sell them Siberia).  What china IS NOT doing though, is trying
        |to "spread authoritarianism". They don't give a shit if other
        |countries are authoritarian or not. The people who are calling
        |china and Russia "dictator buddies" have no clue what China's
        |motives and goals are. China joins the "dictator club" for
        |reasons of getting some members of that club in trouble, and
        |making the west look weak. Those countries are not China's
        |allies or friends.


        |u/i81u812 - 10 hours
        |
        |Come to think of it we ain't heard shit from Kim since the US
        |election..


      |u/Sutar_Mekeg - 13 hours
      |
      |They'll never get Kursk back.


      |u/frostymugson - 7 hours
      |
      |Maybe, but it’s actually a huge hand in Ukraine in terms of
      |bargaining. We want to keep this portion of Ukraine, ok then we
      |keep your territory. Ukraine actually has a bargaining chip when
      |they’re negotiating with Russian territory, without it they don’t
      |have a position to strong arm in negotiations.


      |u/Pirate_Ben - 15 hours
      |
      |I think this is less of an issue.  They just want a better
      |negotiating position before negotiations start and are confident
      |(rightly or wrongly, I cannot say) in their ability to retake it.


      |u/kaisadilla_ - 13 hours
      |
      |They may lose Trump's respect and that'd be a disaster after 10
      |years of Russian work to get Trump into power.


      |u/dasunt - 10 hours
      |
      |They are currently a laughing stock internationally.  It's been
      |almost three years into their "three day" military operation and
      |they are now relying on North Koreans to prop up their military.


    |u/JollyGreenGiraffe - 18 hours
    |
    |It will be going off the situation. It just may not be for another
    |2-10 years.


      |u/nekonight - 18 hours
      |
      |Kursk is special to Ukraine they can give ground there for an
      |advantage. Recently they intentionally gave ground to chew up a
      |mass attack then took the area back. It's chewing up russian
      |troops at a much higher rate than any Ukrainian front because of
      |that.


        |u/SuccessionWarFan - 17 hours
        |
        |Which is called “defense in depth” or an “elastic defense”. Give
        |up space to inflict damage. Do it well enough, and you do enough
        |damage to take the space back.


          |u/Arendious - 17 hours
          |
          |Particularly effective in this case, where the space being
          |chewed up in the process is Russian.


          |u/SirEDCaLot - 7 hours
          |
          |> Give up space to inflict damage.  Ukraine did that
          |spectacularly at the start of the war.  Russia was expecting
          |hard defenses at the border but there was virtually nothing.
          |Ukraine let Russia push far into Ukraine very quickly, then
          |just as Russia overextended their supply lines, Ukraine got
          |all their columns bogged down with ambushes and the oncoming
          |rainy / muddy season.  They made great use of their very
          |talented sniper teams there.   Now of course drones are the
          |weapon of the day.  Get near a UA position and you'll find a
          |bunch of little 3d printed hobby drones with grenades on their
          |belly flying around.  Big drone flies recon overwatch, little
          |suicide drone(s) fuck shit up.  You get a grenade up your ass
          |and the video of you getting blown up gets posted on Telegram
          |a day later.


            |u/SuccessionWarFan - 6 hours
            |
            |The footage of the long column in slow traffic getting
            |bushwhacked by Ukrainians with Javelins from the early days
            |of the war is burned into my memory.


          |u/DomiNatron2212 - 17 hours
          |
          |Defense in depth is more akin to castles where you have many
          |lines of defense you can continue falling back to.


            |u/DuckDatum - 16 hours
            |
            |For those like me that didn’t know about Defense in Depth:
            |- Success often hinges on effective coordination of reserves
            |and the ability to exploit the attacker’s overextension. -
            |It works best when the defender has the strategic depth to
            |trade territory for the ability to regroup and
            |counterattack. - Defense in depth thrives on the interplay
            |of space, time, and attrition. You can often trade space for
            |time.


            |u/SuccessionWarFan - 16 hours
            |
            |It applies here too, Russia and Ukraine. Both have so much
            |open space. It’s not just what they’ve been doing now but
            |also in history, such as WW2.


              |u/DomiNatron2212 - 16 hours
              |
              |Retreating into expanse isn't what defense in depth means
              |though.  It's also a term in cybersecurity for the same
              |concept, multiple layers of defenses expecting the first
              |layers to fail eventually


                |u/SuccessionWarFan - 16 hours
                |
                |Well, has Ukraine’s retreats or is the Surovikin Line
                |“expanse”? Or are there defensive points and lines that
                |both sides follow?


          |u/Starrion - 13 hours
          |
          |The fact that the Russians are stuck using their oldest and
          |less combat capable reserve equipment isn’t helping any. If
          |the negotiations drag on, the Red army may be truck borne
          |infantry.


        |u/MegatronTheGOAT87 - 18 hours
        |
        |They can treat it like the battle of Verdun via the German
        |perspective


          |u/ManOfWarts - 17 hours
          |
          |[All the armored assaults remind me of Kursk during
          |WW2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk)


        |u/JollyGreenGiraffe - 18 hours
        |
        |The Russians have more meat for the grinder than Ukraine. It
        |doesn’t really matter. This is what we’ve been seeing for the
        |last 2 years


          |u/Randommaggy - 18 hours
          |
          |Thankfully Russia is starting to run low on heavy gear.


            |u/angelbelle - 17 hours
            |
            |Guess which side is also going to run low on gear with the
            |recent election results


            |u/CarniferousChicken - 17 hours
            |
            |Yet they are strengthening ties with allies in the east who
            |are all gearing up the war machine while the west sits
            |mostly idle.  The states bordering Russia are the only ones
            |who really seem to get it.


              |u/klonkrieger43 - 17 hours
              |
              |do you think that by any measure China and North Korea
              |have given Russia just a fraction of the supply that the
              |West has given Ukraine? On what kind of copium are you?


                |u/ren_reddit - 16 hours
                |
                |north korea has given russia 5+ million 155mm shells


                  |u/klonkrieger43 - 16 hours
                  |
                  |oh yeah, ammo is surely on the side of the warring
                  |countries with a running mass production.  How many
                  |tanks though? Especially ones like the Leopard 2?
                  |Himars equivalents?  The West doesn't fight on
                  |quantity, but quality. I'd prefer if the quantity were
                  |bigger but if you have a PzH2000 you only need to send
                  |one shell to hit a target, not with a North Korean
                  |artillery.


                |u/exidebm - 16 hours
                |
                |umm yeah just a few shahed drones, a few million
                |artillery shells, a few thousand soldiers


                  |u/klonkrieger43 - 16 hours
                  |
                  |and the West has only given Ukraine $380 billion in
                  |aid. Peanuts.


                |u/CarniferousChicken - 17 hours
                |
                |And how big is the hole in the ground your head is
                |buried in to not see that all those weapons have not
                |helped,  we need MORE! Russia is currently gaining more
                |ground than ever in Ukraine,  the US will soon halt aid
                |due to Trump,  and the Russian army, despite its heavy
                |loses is only GROWING in size.   That is not
                |sustainable, and if you think it is,  you're delusional.
                |Ukraine would be so much better if people like you who
                |believe the West is doing enough would just keep quiet.
                |Traitorous behavior to sell our Ukrainian brothers and
                |sisters out like that.


                  |u/anonimogeronimo - 6 hours
                  |
                  |Let Europe take care of European wars.


                  |u/klonkrieger43 - 17 hours
                  |
                  |Sure Ukraine needs more, still it is far more support
                  |than Russia receives.


              |u/jdm1891 - 5 hours
              |
              |As I said in my previous comment. China is not Russia's
              |ally.  China's only goal here is to make the war drag on
              |to make Russia weak and make the west _seem_ weak (but
              |they don't want the west to be actually weak, they want
              |the west to be equal or near equal to them, because that
              |is the most profitable arrangement).  North Korea is not
              |Russia's friend. NK just made a deal with the devil for
              |everything they could ever want.   In fact the recent
              |Russia/NK pairing has gotten China pretty wary. This is
              |bad for them and you may very well see China pulling
              |support because NK pushes the war too far in Russia's
              |favour.   Really, geopolitically. Both the west and China
              |would like the war to drag on and on. Because it weakens
              |Russia. The west wants this because Russia is to
              |aggressive for their liking. China wants this for economic
              |reasons (and also because Russia's aggressiveness is
              |making their western trade less profitable).


          |u/ZetaRESP - 18 hours
          |
          |Ukraine has a better grinder than Russia, so far.


              |u/ZetaRESP - 17 hours
              |
              |Russia is not really growing in size. It's just they
              |already had too many pepple in the back burner and are
              |just bringing it forward.


                |u/CarniferousChicken - 17 hours
                |
                |https://www.statista.com/statistics/1334454/russian-
                |armed-forces-personnel/  Facts


                  |u/ZetaRESP - 14 hours
                  |
                  |Most of them were forced conscripts, everybody knows
                  |that. They may be getting more soldiers, but they are
                  |getting less and less meat with that.  And the only
                  |allied that sent them troops and they got hooked with
                  |porn.


          |u/PublicEnemaNumberOne - 18 hours
          |
          |Sunflowers need fertilized.


          |u/Blackicecube - 17 hours
          |
          |Their economy cares. So many working age men dying plus
          |sanctions is starting to hurt. It's why they needed North
          |Koreans for the grinder but I doubt they are unlimited supply
          |too.


            |u/JollyGreenGiraffe - 17 hours
            |
            |They don’t care enough or there would’ve been another
            |revolution by now.


          |u/UrBoySergio - 18 hours
          |
          |They have bodies but lack equipment


          |u/SuccessionWarFan - 17 hours
          |
          |They do, but it’s not inexhaustible or can spent without
          |worry. Ever rising signing bonuses and bringing North Koreans
          |are a sign of that. And now they’ve slashed payouts for their
          |wounded. Yet no mobilization.


          |u/Endemoniada - 14 hours
          |
          |Ukraine has a reason to fight until the last person. Russia
          |doesn’t. And the sooner Russians figure this out and ”deal”
          |with their Putin infection, the better for everyone involved.


          |u/Zeremxi - 14 hours
          |
          |The problem with that logic is that it's an offshoot of the
          |same logic people were saying in 2022 as to why the war
          |wouldn't last two weeks. And then why it wouldn't last two
          |months. And then why it wouldn't last past the winter season.
          |And then why it should have ended earlier this year.  Fact is,
          |it's a lot harder to take land than to defend it. The numbers
          |reflect that.


          |u/laetus - 15 hours
          |
          |Ahh the Russian talking points.  "Ukraine can't defend against
          |Russia"  *Ukraine doesn't immediately fall*  "Ukraine won't be
          |able to survive winter"  *Ukraine survives winter*  "Ukraine
          |can't take back land"  *Ukraine takes Russian territory*
          |"Ukraine doesn't have enough people to defend"  *Russia has to
          |lure in North Korean troops to help their own*  "...."


            |u/JollyGreenGiraffe - 13 hours
            |
            |Ukraine has foreign fighters and money flowing into it.
            |They’ve lost more ground since their offensive than they’ve
            |gained.   Let’s come back here in 2 years and see how it
            |looks. I’m all for Ukraine winning, but they are still
            |losing more ground than they’ve taken.


              |u/laetus - 12 hours
              |
              |Ah, more russian talking points.   And no. I won't be
              |coming back here in 2 years to see how it looks because
              |I'll just block you in a bit because you had nothing
              |interesting to say.


    |u/SuccessionWarFan - 17 hours
    |
    |All Putin’s doing is fertilizing Kursk with North Koreans.


      |u/ki11bunny - 11 hours
      |
      |That's how you get worms


      |u/Nymaz - 6 hours
      |
      |"Nyet, I know you are all starving, but you cannot eat the
      |sunflower seeds.  Those are for... [other
      |purposes](https://youtu.be/L17Bi7zBJHI?si=IFsjVuE4i2Y1PPpP&t=21)."


    |u/Maleficent_Mouse_930 - 14 hours
    |
    |That's OK. We keep increasing weapons supplies from Europe to
    |Ukraine and eventually enough North Koreans will have been killed
    |for South Korea to push north to The Chinese border without
    |resistance!


      |u/QualifiedApathetic - 7 hours
      |
      |If only. I don't see Kim sending a significant number of his 7.5
      |million military personnel, counting paramilitary and reserves.


    |u/BubsyFanboy - 17 hours
    |
    |Or at least that's what Putin is ordering and hoping for.  We all
    |know he's never going to blame himself for his failures.


    |u/attorneyatslaw - 16 hours
    |
    |North Korea is going to walk away too if they do too much of that.


      |u/foul_ol_ron - 12 hours
      |
      |On the bright side, if vlad keeps breaking these peasants,  I can
      |sell him even more- like planned obsolescence! /s


    |u/DrDerpberg - 14 hours
    |
    |Nah it's because they're assholes. They've had the same basic
    |attitude towards "peace talks" since the beginning.   Remember when
    |they were offering peace if Ukraine recognized the annexed
    |territories? It would have involved Ukraine leaving parts of its
    |territories that Russia had never controlled.


    |u/RogueEyebrow - 14 hours
    |
    |"We will fight until the last North Korean!"


    |u/destroyer1474 - 13 hours
    |
    |How long before assaults decimate their lines and Ukraine returns
    |the numbers advantage to relatively even? 50,000 troops including
    |more of your elite troops won't last long taking casualties in the
    |200-400 per day


    |u/Apexnanoman - 13 hours
    |
    |Yup. 26 million people in NK. Figure that gives Putin cheap and easy
    |access to 10 million+ fanatical biobots. 


    |u/Undernown - 8 hours
    |
    |Ideally he would want to throw only Koreans on that bonfire. But
    |realistically atleast about half will have to be Russians to keep
    |things under control, not to mention translators, opperations staff,
    |logistics.  And judging by the recent casualty rate and the barely
    |shifting lines, it's not going ro plan so far.


    |u/SuccessionWarFan - 4 hours
    |
    |Is the line even shifting? If yes, by how much? And even if he’s
    |using troops and materiel he considers disposable, how much has
    |Russia lost?


  |u/MrCockingFinally - 16 hours
  |
  |Man, people read headlines and don't actually know what is going on.
  |A while ago, Russia was making a big noise about being willing to
  |negotiate. IIRC, this was before Kursk.   Their conditions?   Ukraine
  |abandon their defensive positions, let Russia occupy ALL the
  |territories it claims to have annexed, and THEN negotiations can
  |start.   It's an absolute joke, but all most people will hear is a
  |headline saying "Russia open to negotiations."


    |u/TricksterPriestJace - 11 hours
    |
    |Russia has been willing to negotiate Ukraine'sUkraine's surrender
    |since day one. It doesn't fucking mean anything.


    |u/RailRuler - 9 hours
    |
    |In the Georgia-Russia, war, when Georgia surrendered, Russia marched
    |in and stole/wrecked their ENTIRE REMAINING STOCK OF MILITARY
    |HARDWARE. What's the point of surrendering then?


      |u/Illustrious-Home4610 - 3 hours
      |
      |Historically, I think it was the hope of not being slaughtered. 


    |u/ieatthosedownvotes - 12 hours
    |
    |Yeah, it's more like "Russia open to 'negotiations'"


      |u/MrCockingFinally - 7 hours
      |
      |Russia willing to accept Ukraine'e surrender.


    |u/Marionberry_Bellini - 8 hours
    |
    |Realistically it’s been “neither party is open to negotiations” for
    |the entirety of the war.  Neither Ukraine nor Russia seems open to
    |ceding anything for a cease fire or peace treaty so the war trudges
    |on until (most likely) the West gets sick of supporting Ukraine at
    |some point and they have to take a bad deal.  It’s not a good, but I
    |don’t really see another way that this war ends.


  |u/BubsyFanboy - 18 hours
  |
  |"Rules for thee, not for me!"


  |u/SmokedBeef - 15 hours
  |
  |>Ukraine not “budging”   They wiped out an entire battalion in the
  |last week, they’re doing much more than not budging and it’s
  |absolutely beautiful


  |u/Super_XIII - 15 hours
  |
  |Russia's plan is to ask for a white peace that ceases the conflict and
  |each side gets to keep the land they currently control. The problem
  |with that is while Russia has captured a lot of Ukranian land, Ukraine
  |has captured Kursk, which is russian controlled. Russia wants to
  |recapture it before Trump takes office so that they will only gain
  |land during such a peace deal.


  |u/slash312 - 17 hours
  |
  |Russian logic


  |u/Successful-Sand686 - 19 hours
  |
  |Trump : it’s a DEAL!


    |u/VR_Zeus - 18 hours
    |
    |The point of that incursion into russian territory was to have a
    |bargain chip when negociation starts.


      |u/gmc98765 - 12 hours
      |
      |The point was so that Russia doesn't even consider asking to
      |simply freeze the conflict. Because that would require accepting
      |the loss of Russian territory.  With Trump looming on the horizon,
      |the biggest threat to Ukraine was its "allies" pressuring it to
      |accept a ceasefire. But as long as Kursk remains under Ukrainian
      |control, a ceasefire on the current lines would be as unacceptable
      |to Russia as it is to Ukraine. So that's no longer a concern.


      |u/Successful-Sand686 - 18 hours
      |
      |When Trump takes power. There’s not any way things get better.


        |u/Ok_Zookeepergame4794 - 18 hours
        |
        |Things will get better... for Russia that is.


  |u/DirkTheSandman - 16 hours
  |
  |You see, according to russia, that territory already belongs to them.
  |They wont pull out because it’s theirs


  |u/DGer - 14 hours
  |
  |Of course this was what they’d want all along. Guess who probably
  |wants to give it to them?


  |u/Yukimor - 13 hours
  |
  |If you read the article, title is misleading. Russia isn’t demanding
  |the land back before negotiations. It’s trying to win it back through
  |military action, while Ukraine defends their hold on Kursk.  The
  |headline does sure sound like something Putin would actually say
  |though.


  |u/Gryphon5754 - 8 hours
  |
  |Everyone is saying Trump will have peace in Ukraine. He won't do it
  |through a peace deal, he will do it through Ukrainian surrender


|u/PerfectAstronaut - 19 hours
|
|The crybully playbook


  |u/Nonsense_Producer - 19 hours
  |
  |Crybully. Going to steal that one. Thanks.


    |u/BubsyFanboy - 17 hours
    |
    |>someone who intimidates or harasses others while claiming to be a
    |victim of ill treatment


    |u/armeniapedia - 15 hours
    |
    |Seriously. I could never find the right word to describe Azerbaijan.
    |This is perfect.  Closest I could get before was sore losers and
    |sore winners, the latter being the most deplorable of course.


      |u/10art1 - 12 hours
      |
      |More like Armenia. You can't just arm terrorists to de mare
      |independence in another country and then act surprised when there
      |is a military response. Armenia is 100% acting just like Russia in
      |that scenario. Just because the land used to belong to you at some
      |point in history, and the people there are overwhelmingly your
      |same ethnicity, and they are suppressing that ethnicity in favor
      |of your own, that doesn't mean you get to just blatantly violate
      |international law and engage in hostilities while providing the
      |thinnest veneer of deniability.


      |u/PerfectAstronaut - 17 hours
      |
      |yep, didn't have my glasses


  |u/lurker_101 - 11 hours
  |
  |**Putin :** You invaded me so I can invade you again  **Zelensky :**
  |But you invaded already?!?  **Putin :** Nuh Uhhh!! Now give Kursk back
  |.. that's not fair!  *.. hope he falls down some stairs and messes his
  |diaper again*


|u/Dude_I_got_a_DWAVE - 19 hours
|
|Kremlin: makes outrageous lies and demands  The west: “let’s meet them
|in the middle”  Kremlin: “insanity just got us free shit”  THIS NEEDS TO
|END


  |u/monkeyspearfish2000 - 14 hours
  |
  |“Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man.   You take a step towards
  |him, he takes a step back.   Meet me in the middle, says the unjust
  |man."   A.R. Moxon


    |u/Willing-Pain8504 - 13 hours
    |
    |Which is why conservatives refuse gun control.


      |u/nagrom7 - 7 hours
      |
      |Conservatives are in no position to criticise anyone for acting
      |like the above.


      |u/haironburr - 10 hours
      |
      |Which is why ~~conservatives~~ liberals ~~refuse~~ demand ever-
      |increasing gun control.  This being one reason we have the
      |clusterfuck of russian-worshipping ball cancer that is a trump
      |administration, and subsequently, Ukraine will get screwed.
      |Having typed all that out, it occurs to me I just replied to a 2
      |month old account with 138 karma. Are you being paid in rubles to
      |stir up shit, and did I just fall for it?


        |u/distantlistener - 9 hours
        |
        |There are always shallow FUD fomenters about Democratic
        |Presidential candidates, threatening amorphous "gun control".
        |I'd love to see what significant "gun control" resulted from
        |Obama's or Biden's administrations. Absolutists about the 2nd
        |Amendment but apologists about the 1st and 14th (to name just
        |two that are especially topical)? I simply can't respect it.


          |u/haironburr - 8 hours
          |
          |>I'd love to see what significant "gun control" resulted from
          |Obama's or Biden's administrations.  We're talking about
          |Ukraine here, and the incoming administration's probable
          |willingness to cast their well-being to the winds (a stance I
          |find morally abhorrent). So I don't want to turn this into a
          |debate about US domestic politics that have nothing to do with
          |the post. However...  Someone just suggested I misinterpreted
          |their comment, and it was in fact comparing Dems on gun
          |control to Putin.  In any case, I'll ask a brief question.
          |Yes, I'm pretty much an absolutist on 2A issues, and we can
          |both read a major party's platform. Despite this stance, I
          |voted Harris, as a lesser of evils, and my vote lost. Sadly,
          |Dems use guns like Repubs use trans kids and ovary control.
          |That's my own one sentence rant.  But I honestly don't
          |understand "apologists about the 1st and 14th".  It's of
          |course not your job to educate me, but I'd be open to hearing
          |what you meant by that phrase, because it sailed right over my
          |head. If you take the time to respond, I promise I'll listen
          |with as open a mind as I can conjure.


            |u/distantlistener - 7 hours
            |
            |To circle-back on my notion of being "an absolutist on 2A
            |issues", I'm not convinced that you are, at least with what
            |little I know of your positions regarding the broad
            |regulatory questions relating to firearms.    For example, I
            |consider one to be an "absolutist" when they outright reject
            |*any* regulation concerning gun ownership, even when far
            |from a "gun grab": universal background checks to
            |reduce/eliminate loopholes for those with violent crime
            |convictions or substantiated domestic violence history?
            |"No." Regulating/banning bump stocks that effectively yield
            |an automatic weapon? "No." Allowing a pediatrician to simply
            |inquire about whether a gun is in the home, so they can
            |advise about the very real health/life risks? "No."    As a
            |"liberally-minded" person, myself, I own guns and have a
            |carry permit in both MN and WA. I'm fine with arguing the
            |finer points of what regulating/banning "assault weapons"
            |actually means, along with how you can accurately measure
            |effectiveness (or lack thereof); but outright rejection of
            |doing *anything*, along with bad-faith minimizing of the
            |brutal motivations for seeking such laws? Ain't got time for
            |that.


            |u/distantlistener - 7 hours
            |
            |> It's of course not your job to educate me, but I'd be open
            |to hearing what you meant by that phrase, because it sailed
            |right over my head. If you take the time to respond, I
            |promise I'll listen with as open a mind as I can conjure.
            |Well, I appreciate a willingness to understand. Beginning
            |with 1A, this election cycle has seen MAGA/GOP/Conservatives
            |making wild claims about 'Kamala's going to abolish the 1st
            |Amendment.' Generally, these absurd claims appear to arise
            |from the belief that the pushback on far-right talking
            |points (of the misinformation/disinformation flavor) *on
            |social media* or *the* so-called *liberal* *media* is
            |somehow an egregious curtailing of "freedom of speech" --
            |when, in fact, the 1st Amendment is literally a protection
            |*from* **the** **government** abridging those freedoms
            |(citizen speech, religion, press, assembly, redress). Beyond
            |the right of private platforms to regulate the content that
            |they host, the 1A protections *from* **government**
            |censorship or retribution are widely recognized as **not**
            |absolute. ('FIRE! in theater' is the typical go-to example,
            |but also litigation of slander and libel, obscenity; in the
            |past 10 years or so, laws have also caught up with "revenge
            |p*rn", for example.) By contrast, Trump and his ilk have
            |made it their brand to champion the attack of the press
            |(*everything* he doesn't like said about him is a distortion
            |or "fake news"; he's shown contempt for the right to protest
            |so-called "radical liberal" (i.e., mainstream liberal)
            |causes like police brutality or egregious economic
            |disparities, often lazily grouping protestors with rioters.
            |Do a simple web search for *Trump* *1st Amendment* *attack*
            |and let me know if you cannot find reputable sources (by
            |*your* measure) that demonstrate the disparity between
            |Trump's rhetoric/action and, say, Biden's or Kamala's
            |rhetoric/action.    The 14th Amendment is easier, I think.
            |Trump ignorantly parrots the notion of taking abortion "back
            |to the states", but it was *DECADES* of Supreme Court
            |precedent, founded on the 14th Amendment -- see section "XI"
            |of [Roe v Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973)](https://supreme.justia.
            |com/cases/federal/us/410/113/) -- that he and his party
            |sanctioned the flippant discarding of. (And it was indeed
            |*sanctioned*, because of how and who they selected for SC
            |Justices.) Setting aside the torching of decades of
            |precedent affirming pre-1st Trimester abortion as
            |*Constitutionally* protected, consider the issue from a
            |pregnant woman's perspective: you formerly had a *right* to
            |equitable reproductive healthcare affirmed *by the
            |Constitution*, and that **right** was literally taken away
            |and "given back" to the states. Like, do you think the
            |precedent of DC v Heller (2008) should be flippantly
            |overturned to return the question of personal gun ownership
            |for self-defense "back to the states"? Returning **a right**
            |"back to the states" can **only** serve to curtail it.
            |Pregnant women have been forced to time travel back to a
            |regressive era of the US, when doctors have to fear
            |prosecution for prioritizing the health/life of a pregnant
            |woman. It has a **direct** and detrimental effect on
            |pregnant women and their loved ones.  >Sadly, Dems use guns
            |like Repubs use trans kids and ovary control.    FWIW,
            |disagree. While I agree that Democrats often champion
            |"common sense gun control/reforms (I think "control" is an
            |intentionally loaded -- no pun intended -- term to undermine
            |even modest reform attempts, like waiting periods and
            |universal background checks), and they often fall flat
            |(thereby leaving vulnerability to being labeled as having
            |made empty promises), Conservatives that "use trans kids and
            |ovary control" are condoning hate and indifference and
            |enacting laws that *directly* marginalize and hurt people.
            |2A enthusiasts may cry that "liberals" will "outlaw" private
            |ownership and that will necessarily lead to being murdered
            |by criminals, but it's such a generalized anxiety/concern,
            |generally divorced of a specific piece of legislation, so
            |it's neither direct nor even amenable to useful discussion.
            |"Thanks for coming to my TED Talk."


        |u/emurange205 - 9 hours
        |
        |>Which is why ~~conservatives~~ liberals ~~refuse~~ demand ever-
        |increasing gun control.  I think that was their point:  The
        |Democrats take another step back and say, "Meet me in the
        |middle."


          |u/haironburr - 9 hours
          |
          |In which case I failed miserably to detect context. It's a
          |confusing time, and what with the center not holding and
          |falcons fucking off wherever, my context detector is
          |untrustworthy, as much as I hate to admit it. Thanks!


            |u/emurange205 - 9 hours
            |
            |It happens to the best of us.


  |u/BubsyFanboy - 17 hours
  |
  |At this rate we'll be giving them entire countries...


    |u/Working_Method8543 - 17 hours
    |
    |And sell Alaska back for 8 million USD, including a 10 minute ramble
    |what a good deal that was.


      |u/jyanjyanjyan - 15 hours
      |
      |Remember when Trump wanted to buy Greenland? And they were like
      |"lol what? No."


        |u/Working_Method8543 - 15 hours
        |
        |Yes, I remember something like "large real estate deal" and the
        |reply from Denmark: "Absurd. That's where the conversation
        |ends".


          |u/EarthMantle00 - 13 hours
          |
          |fun fact: 96% of  Danish people dislike Trump now, a higher
          |ratio than any other country


            |u/QualifiedApathetic - 7 hours
            |
            |I knew that. That's why I want to move to Denmark. But
            |anywhere in Scandinavia would be great.


            |u/foul_ol_ron - 12 hours
            |
            |The Danish have always struck me as having their shit
            |tightly wired together. Good on ya's.


      |u/green_meklar - 16 hours
      |
      |A great deal, a fantastic deal, probably the best deal anyone's
      |ever seen, a lot of people are saying it.


        |u/KrozJr_UK - 16 hours
        |
        |Trump: Peace in our time!


          |u/DefaultyTurtle2 - 12 hours
          |
          |If his presidency goes how it seems it will, i for one welcome
          |ultron


      |u/koshgeo - 11 hours
      |
      |Crazy talk.  The US pulled billions of dollars worth of oil out of
      |there.  Russia should therefore get a substantial discount.  /s


      |u/pot_of_water - 13 hours
      |
      |Hey if Russia wants to give US money for red states, I'm all for
      |it


    |u/youstolemyname - 12 hours
    |
    |Just wait until January


  |u/FruitOfTheVineFruit - 15 hours
  |
  |You left out part of the strategy which is to offer something in
  |return, e.g. Russia guaranteed Ukraine's sovereignty in return for
  |Ukraine going nuclear free, and then Russia completely ignored what
  |they promised and invaded anyway.


  |u/zerostar83 - 14 hours
  |
  |It works so well in the U.S. in divorce proceedings.


|u/Matman161 - 15 hours
|
|Russia should learn to accept new territorial realities.


|u/Alarming_Designer643 - 19 hours
|
|It’s like demanding dessert before you’ve even sat down for dinner


  |u/StandUpForYourWights - 19 hours
  |
  |How can you have any pudding if you ain’t eat your meat?


    |u/absat41 - 18 hours
    |
    |Suddenly Floyd 


    |u/tunnel-snakes-rule - 9 hours
    |
    |Ironic considering Roger Waters is a big Putin apologist.


    |u/Schavvek - 18 hours
    |
    |Ain't beat your meat FTFY bro


  |u/Big-Bike530 - 19 hours
  |
  |I'm a grown adult and I decide how I waste my calorie allowance. Now
  |give me that cheese cake and fuck off.


    |u/JustADutchRudder - 19 hours
    |
    |No! Eat your damn carrots first or you'll never have night vision!


      |u/torev - 9 hours
      |
      |Nice try britts.


    |u/pirat314159265359 - 17 hours
    |
    |No, you’re diabetic.


|u/umo2k - 19 hours
|
|Easy. Bring back the Borders from 2013. Russia has to deal with the new
|territorial reality.


|u/skinnereatsit - 18 hours
|
|Hahah that’s not how negotiations work.   “We want the things we want
|first, then we’ll negotiate for the things we want”


  |u/roastbeeftacohat - 13 hours
  |
  |that's exactly how negotiations work, before talks start you manoeuvre
  |to negotiate from the strongest position possible. fighting is often
  |the bloodiest just before a ceasefire.


    |u/aussierulesisgrouse - 6 hours
    |
    |Yeah, he described negotiation strategy kind of factually lmao.
    |It’s not the right moral outcome, but it’s just the reality of how
    |negotiation works lmao.


    |u/TurbulentSecond7888 - 2 hours
    |
    |No that's not how negotiations works.  In negotiation, you see your
    |position and your opponent position, and then try to see where both
    |demand can be met.    Here, Russia immediately ask you to surrender
    |your position first, then negotiate. That's not negotiation, that's
    |freaking asking you to give up before even talking


      |u/roastbeeftacohat - 2 hours
      |
      |Which if you can pull off you do.


|u/MaybeMaus - 19 hours
|
|You want it? Come and get it if you can


  |u/Randomer63 - 19 hours
  |
  |I think they can and they are about too… sadly


    |u/BeautifulWhole7466 - 19 hours
    |
    |I think you are wrong


      |u/fresan123 - 15 hours
      |
      |I am sorry, but if you think the war is going to end in any other
      |way than a Russian victory where they occupy Luhansk, Donetsk and
      |Crimea, then you are delusional.  Us westerners fucked up. We have
      |been living with a naive pacifist mindset for the past 30 years,
      |so we are unable to supply Ukraine with the ammunition, weaponry
      |and support that they need


        |u/BeautifulWhole7466 - 15 hours
        |
        |Im sorry but if you think thats a victory you are delusional 😂


        |u/KeyKing7 - 13 hours
        |
        |100% this account is Russian lol lmao


          |u/fresan123 - 12 hours
          |
          |I support Ukraine 100% and have been doing so since I was old
          |enough to understand what happened. I am very negative towards
          |Russia as it is an imperialistic country bordering my own
          |country.  I want nothing more in this world than to see Russia
          |gone. Yet you call me a russian bot because I refuse to delude
          |myself with your total Ukrainian victory fantasy.  Tell me. If
          |I am a russian bot. How to you believe Ukraine will achieve
          |this victory? Especially when Usa and Europe have failed to
          |give Ukraine the help it desperately needs.


            |u/BeautifulWhole7466 - 12 hours
            |
            |> your total Ukrainian victory fantasy.    Who said this?
            |We are talking about one defensive battle in one region 


          |u/BigBoiBenisBlueBalls - 13 hours
          |
          |No he’s right


        |u/BeautifulWhole7466 - 13 hours
        |
        |Resorting to insults because you cant have a complete thought. 
        |You’ve been consuming too much propaganda if you think this is a
        |“win” for the Russian federation 😂  Yes you care a lot about
        |downvotes. Mayhaps your insults are a  projection of your self
        |hate


    |u/EquivalentBetrayal - 15 hours
    |
    |After having 6 advances destroyed and their spear head surrounded i
    |uuuuuuh doubt that very very much.


    |u/AlkaKr - 14 hours
    |
    |They've proven they can't even get their own land back and every
    |time they try the get ambushed and cut off from the rest.  How
    |exactly are they going to do it?


|u/WiSoSirius - 19 hours
|
|Ukraine wants their land back too


|u/LTKerr - 19 hours
|
|And that's why Zelenskyy pushed for it


  |u/Fuzzy-Frame9882 - 14 hours
  |
  |100%  All the totally-not-propaganda accounts stopped pushing “both
  |sides need to accept a peace treaty based on current front lines” the
  |moment those front lines extended into Russia.


    |u/karer3is - 12 hours
    |
    |It's ridiculous... in Germany both far- left and far- right
    |politicians are calling for the Ukranians to basically surrender.
    |The leftist poliiticians are trying to blame Ukraine and the various
    |western powers supporting it for all the bloodshed while the far
    |right parties are trying to see who can stick their nose the
    |furthest up Putin's ass


    |u/SpareAccnt - 13 hours
    |
    |This is one of those things that should be obvious, but just isn’t


  |u/runricky34 - 14 hours
  |
  |Yep. So many who opposed it can now see that its Zelensky’s biggest
  |bargaining chip.


|u/DonutsOnTheWall - 19 hours
|
|Ukraine wants their stuff back before negotiations too. Will make
|negotiations way easier too.


|u/Wemest - 19 hours
|
|So essentially they are making demands and setting terms.  Newsflash
|Russia, you are in negotiations.


  |u/foul_ol_ron - 12 hours
  |
  |Unsurprisingly, that sounds a lot like the negotiation tactics of
  |hamas. 


|u/SEAN0_91 - 17 hours
|
|Putin - “we’ve discovered a book from 1765 stating that Kursk has always
|been Ukrainian land, so we’re going to let them keep it”


|u/Slivovic - 19 hours
|
|In exchange for all Ukraine territory, seems fair.


  |u/heisenbugtastic - 17 hours
  |
  |I would do that deal any day of the week. It's a good deal, them trade
  |their black sea fleet getting out for the kids. Pow for pow as even.
  |Hell throw in gas to Europe.   Of course that will never happen with
  |Putin. Maybe a little, but unless Trump declared a no fly zone, sent a
  |few brigades to Poland, and attached a long range weapon deal. Damnit
  |I still dream.


    |u/foul_ol_ron - 12 hours
    |
    |I think putin still knows how to manipulate don. So I wouldn't hope
    |for much.


  |u/Koala_eiO - 10 hours
  |
  |"This is much to demand for the delivery of one servant: that your
  |Master should receive in exchange what he must else fight many a war
  |to gain! Or has the field of Gondor destroyed his hope in war, so that
  |he falls to haggling?"


|u/Anacalagon - 18 hours
|
|I am sure we can trust Putin to negotiate in good faith and not lie, and
|cheat, and steal, this time.


|u/iamfromny - 18 hours
|
|classic Russian gaslighting.  after they punch you, they will ask why
|your are punching their fist with your face?  and if you fight back,
|they will say "see, I was right in punching you as you just punched me"
|at this point, I think they actually believe what they say.


|u/HugoNext - 15 hours
|
|"Give up your leverage and we can start negotiations"


|u/SendStoreMeloner - 18 hours
|
|Russia doesn't actually want peace. Putin want more demands met. Crazy
|demands that will lead to more war.


  |u/glmory - 9 hours
  |
  |Nah, they want to do what they did in their last war, declare peace
  |then storm back in as soon as they have regrouped.


    |u/SendStoreMeloner - 1 hour
    |
    |Pretty sure that is what I wrote.


|u/DramaticWesley - 19 hours
|
|Give back Ukrainian land and I’m sure they will be happy to give you
|back Kursk.  Otherwise, keep losing 1000 troops a day.  Russia seems to
|be trying to speed run their own collapse.


  |u/MaybeMaus - 19 hours
  |
  |People's lives are always the cheapest possible currency for tyrants


  |u/GoofyKalashnikov - 19 hours
  |
  |I wish it was true, but they're still going at it with no signs of
  |stopping besides a trump clutch


    |u/EmbarrassedHelp - 11 hours
    |
    |Their economy is fucked in the long term at this point.


      |u/GoofyKalashnikov - 19 hours
      |
      |I mean sure, but that's a tiny part of the front line


        |u/BeautifulWhole7466 - 19 hours
        |
        |The front line isnt manned 100% all the time.


          |u/GoofyKalashnikov - 19 hours
          |
          |What are you even saying at this point. Russia is showing no
          |signs of slowing down and a few victories here and there
          |aren't changing it. Civilians still get bombarded daily and
          |Russia is still occupying a sizeable chunk of Ukraine...


            |u/BeautifulWhole7466 - 18 hours
            |
            |What are you even saying? No signs of slowing down huh?!?!?
            |Look at the state of their armor, oil production, man power,
            |currency, food prices.  Your brain is stuck in ww1 where
            |land gains are the only factor 


              |u/Pawn-Star77 - 18 hours
              |
              |But it's pointless looking at the metrics you proposed
              |unless you're doing the same for Ukraine, and Ukraine are
              |in a worse position in all of them without American
              |support.


                |u/BeautifulWhole7466 - 18 hours
                |
                |>without American support.  Well they have it so there
                |is no point to live in pretend fantasy land.  The EU
                |will increase their support if America dwindles 


                  |u/Utsider - 18 hours
                  |
                  |The Americans did vote Putin into the White House,
                  |tho. He just needs to play the "ok I'm willing to (not
                  |really but lets pretend to) negotiate" card to cut
                  |himself some slack and reshape the narrative until
                  |January.


|u/F_A_F - 16 hours
|
|The new American president who prides himself on doing 'deals' is about
|to find out that a President who has an existential problem for his
|country won't be quite as easy to push around.   Putin asks for Kursk,
|Zelensky will say no. Trump will expect him to be open to negotiation,
|Zelensky will be firmly no.


  |u/KingKnee - 9 hours
  |
  |Europe needs to push into a war economy right away.


  |u/klparrot - 10 hours
  |
  |There will be strongarming involved, though, not just mediation.


|u/veryAverageCactus - 19 hours
|
|sure, kursk territory in exchange for Ukrainian territory.


|u/ForestGuy29 - 18 hours
|
|“We won’t negotiate until we get what we want.”


|u/stirly80m - 17 hours
|
|Ukraine should take more Russian territory, two can play that game.


|u/rollerderbydino - 16 hours
|
|“Give us your bargaining chip before we bargain! No, you can’t have any
|of our chips that’s not how this works.”


|u/iknewaguytwice - 16 hours
|
|So.. they want to negotiate before they negotiate?


  |u/myselfelsewhere - 9 hours
  |
  |Special non-negotiation negotiation.


|u/elmariachi304 - 14 hours
|
|Lol yes, I'm sure Russia *would* like it if their adversary lost their
|main leverage in negotiations. I'm not surprised by that, I'm more
|surprised they're stupid enough to say that out loud.


|u/st8ic88 - 16 hours
|
|That's a great idea Russia, you should both withdraw to 2014 borders
|before negotiations!


|u/Torak8988 - 18 hours
|
|c'mon putin, skip to the nuclear threats come on  we have heard this
|story 1000 times before, you demand, we refuse, you threaten with nukes,
|we respond with shipments of more weapons, you cry out in fear and pain
|as if it will destroy russia, and then you claim the new weapons are
|completely useless, you beg other dictators to sell you more weapons,
|starving russia even more and driving it even further into financial
|ruin.  this cycle is going to go on forever until russia has no more
|money or putin is no more


|u/reelpotatopeeler - 19 hours
|
|Lol! This is comedy gold.


|u/mczerniewski - 15 hours
|
|Ukraine: How about get out of OUR country first?


|u/susanorth - 13 hours
|
|Right. Sorta like when they requested that Ukraine give up nukes in
|return for ....


|u/pushin_webistics - 13 hours
|
|Good  Fuck Russia


|u/washingtonpost - 20 hours
|
|KYIV — The fight to control some 200 square miles of land in western
|Russia became even more brutal in recent days as the Kremlin, ahead of
|possible negotiations with the incoming Trump administration to end the
|war, appears set on removing Russian land from the equation.  Ukraine
|has controlled swaths of Russia’s Kursk region since a surprise cross-
|border incursion in August and — despite having lost around half its
|initial gains — still maintains a foothold there.  Russia launched a new
|counteroffensive last week, Ukrainian troops and military analysts said,
|flooding the front line with waves of soldiers. It has also deployed at
|least 10,000 North Koreans to the region, according to U.S. intelligence
|estimates. The new assault has been messy but relentless and began after
|Donald Trump — who has pledged to quickly end the war — was elected U.S.
|president.  Read more here:
|[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/11/16/russia-wants-kursk-
|back-before-negotiations-ukraine-isnt-budging/?utm\_campaign=wp\_main&ut
|m\_medium=social&utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/
|world/2024/11/16/russia-wants-kursk-back-before-negotiations-ukraine-
|isnt-
|budging/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com)


  |u/Makaveli80 - 19 hours
  |
  |How the fk north Koreans are deployed and there is no international
  |support to prevent that


    |u/BeautifulWhole7466 - 19 hours
    |
    |Plenty of international citizens fighting for Ukraine 


      |u/rizakrko - 18 hours
      |
      |There is a difference between volunteers and sending a regular
      |army.


        |u/BeautifulWhole7466 - 18 hours
        |
        |Yah the volunteers are better


      |u/madpacifist - 18 hours
      |
      |Not professional military soldiers, barring a handful of those who
      |went AWOL from their units.   Are all volunteers who largely have
      |never held a long barrel weapon, let alone fired one, before
      |turning up.   Not sponsored by their home nation states.   Not
      |equipped by their home nation states.   The fact you think there's
      |a equivalency here is hilarious. 


        |u/coolbloo22 - 4 hours
        |
        |the us sends ukraine money, resources, etc, volunteers go there,
        |mercenaries go there, mercs get paid. no way its coordinated at
        |aaaaaall


        |u/BeautifulWhole7466 - 18 hours
        |
        |>Are all volunteers who largely have never held a long barrel
        |weapon, let alone fired one, before turning up.  Brave of you to
        |say something so easily proven wrong.  The Brazilian troops have
        |fals and why would you want them equipped by their home
        |nations?? America has the equipment.  Brother 😂


          |u/madpacifist - 18 hours
          |
          |Do you understand the concept of "largely"? Of course there
          |are exceptions, but they're a militia of citizens (as you said
          |yourself) and not a sanctioned army sent by a sovereign nation
          |state to sponsor an invasion.   I hope your homeland is never
          |invaded and your children kidnapped, although I fear that's
          |the only way you'll learn empathy.


            |u/BeautifulWhole7466 - 18 hours
            |
            |Yes and do you understand you are making things up with no
            |proof?  Empathy for what brother we having a discussion. I
            |never said i support Russia lol. Quite the opposite.  Are
            |you always so sensational?


      |u/foul_ol_ron - 12 hours
      |
      |So Russia won't squeal like a pig if NATO forces join in to fight
      |for Ukraine?


        |u/BeautifulWhole7466 - 12 hours
        |
        |Like nato hasn’t condemned nk troops in Ukraine?   If nato had
        |the cojones they would


    |u/ricobirch - 19 hours
    |
    |Kursk is internationally recognized Russian land.


      |u/zxva - 18 hours
      |
      |So, internationally recognized land should stay in the country it
      |is recognized as?


      |u/TassadarForXelNaga - 18 hours
      |
      |So was Ukraine land but fuck'em i guess


        |u/KaffeeKiffer - 13 hours
        |
        |People don't like to hear it, but Putin is not a complete moron.
        |When fighting in Kursk, Koreans are supporting Russia in
        |"defending their territory".   Do you think it is a [coincidence
        |that they have a (so-called) **defense**
        |treaty](https://apnews.com/article/north-korea-russia-
        |ukraine-059d73e4c3492c19b555476b2fb45ca9)?  But the moment North
        |Korea takes a step on Ukrainian soil, it is **without any
        |doubt** an act of war. And I am very hopeful that that would
        |have serious repercussions. But As long as NC doesn't do that,
        |we all may know why Putler does this and what is going on, but
        |it is much harder/complex to make a case which stands up to the
        |scrutiny of international law.


          |u/foul_ol_ron - 12 hours
          |
          |So, if another country sent an army into Ukraine, and they
          |only fought on Ukrainian territory,  there'd be no complaints
          |from putin?


            |u/KaffeeKiffer - 11 hours
            |
            |I think no reasonable person gives a shit about what Putler
            |says anyway. You know that he will complain like a crybaby -
            |that is what bullies like Russia do.  1. Every country **on
            |their own** can already act against North Korea and enact
            |sanctions (the bigger problem is that there are not *many*
            |more sanctions to put in place ...) as well as deciding to
            |sent material (like South Korea started doing on a much
            |bigger scale since NK got involved).   Putler _is_ crying
            |about that and everyone is laughing in his face. 2. It is
            |about votes, statements, actions and support in
            |international (clown) organizations like the UN.     I am
            |confident that      > if another country sent an army into
            |Ukraine, and they only fought on Ukrainian territory
            |(almost) everyone except the usual suspects (Iran, NK, etc.)
            |would not bat an eye.   1. The bigger problem is that
            |sending a western army into Ukraine that way would not work,
            |because they are reliant on air superiority and you need to
            |attack AA on Russian soil to get it. 3. I think it's
            |possible that foreign forces (which conveniently look like
            |volunteers ...) are already on the ground in supporting
            |roles (Training, Maintenance, Intelligence).   And hell,
            |Biden just gave clearance for PMCs (where of course Putin
            |threw yet another tantrum)


      |u/fightingpillow - 18 hours
      |
      |As far as I'm concerned Russia has forfeited their right to have
      |international support or recognition of any kind.


        |u/haironburr - 10 hours
        |
        |Russia will remain a pariah nation for at least a generation.
        |Their only allies other outcast nations. Their loud, drunk
        |tourists the world over will elicit eye-rolls and sneers of
        |contempt. Their cowed spineless citizens will compete against
        |each other in who can inform on their neighbor the most.


      |u/DimsumSushi - 18 hours
      |
      |It only works one way. When it's not their land, China and Russia
      |don't care what is internationally recognized


  |u/Petunia_Planter - 14 hours
  |
  |The timing appears to demonstrate the Kremlin’s growing appreciation
  |for how Kursk may play into future talks: If negotiations are to
  |occur, Russia wants to make sure only Ukrainian land is up for debate.
  |“It is clear that Moscow will not start any negotiations until they
  |have kicked out every last Ukrainian soldier from Kursk,” Konstantin
  |Remchukov, the editor in chief of Nezavisimaya Gazeta who moves in
  |Kremlin circles, told The Washington Post.  Russian President Vladimir
  |Putin does not want Kursk to be used as a bargaining chip — nor does
  |he want to be forced to relinquish any of the Ukrainian territory he
  |has captured since Russia’s invasion, Remchukov added. Putin’s recent
  |mentions that any deal needs to reflect the “realities on the ground”
  |refers to Russia’s hopes to recapture Kursk, he said.  Read more here:
  |https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/11/16/russia-wants-kursk-
  |back-before-negotiations-ukraine-isnt-
  |budging/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com


|u/TonyG_from_NYC - 16 hours
|
|Wait, this still can't be going on.  I was told by trump this would
|would have been settled within 24 hours of him winning the election.
|Did he lie?


    |u/TonyG_from_NYC - 14 hours
    |
    |It's a power move by Putin letting trump know who's in charge, and
    |it was hilarious.


  |u/marconis999 - 11 hours
  |
  |The Goal Post Moving van is rolling up.


    |u/Vineyard_ - 7 hours
    |
    |The goal posts are more lubed up than a minor backstage at the RNC.


  |u/coolbloo22 - 4 hours
  |
  |he isnt president yet and he never claimed he would have it done
  |before being president. he isnt president yet.


|u/mikkolukas - 13 hours
|
|oh the irony 😅  Hey Russia, here's an idea: Give Ukraine their
|territories back 😉


|u/roctac - 12 hours
|
|Russia wants Ukraine to give up their only leverage in negotiations


|u/TheFermentationist - 10 hours
|
|Are they giving back Crimea?


|u/TotalBismuth - 18 hours
|
|Sounds like Russia is the one hurting for a negotiation table.


  |u/Aggressive-Will-4500 - 15 hours
  |
  |They had to buy 50,000 troops from North Korea...  That's a giant red
  |flag.


|u/Hautamaki - 15 hours
|
|Ukraine needs to just get their own nukes. Would strongly recommend the
|Baltics, Moldova, Georgia (if the people ever get a representative
|government back in), Armenia, the Stans, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, The
|Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, Saudia Arabia,
|Oman, Bahrain, UAE... The list goes on, should all follow suit. The US
|is now a mercenary nation that doesn't care for global peace and
|stability and is run by a leader that intends to personally profit off
|the chaos. Anyone who doesn't want to be invaded, annexed, and
|potentially genocided by a larger neighbor now needs nukes to prevent
|that happening, because the US no longer cares to unless you can offer
|Trump a better bribe than the larger power that wants what you've got.


  |u/foul_ol_ron - 12 hours
  |
  |Yes. It's been proven that nukes make all the difference.  If Ukraine
  |was nuclear capable,  Russia wouldn't have invaded. If Russia didn't
  |have nukes, they would've been crushed conventionally in the first
  |12-18 months.


|u/Docccc - 19 hours
|
|Full article is a good read


|u/eos4 - 18 hours
|
|Wasn't all this according to plan?


|u/Snowfish52 - 18 hours
|
|Putin is trying to move fast, while Ukraine has something to say about
|that... It's the word, NO...


  |u/ClockworkViking - 14 hours
  |
  |He is trying to move fast because many world economics experts believe
  |that Russia is only a few months away from complete and total economic
  |collapse.  [here you go. good read](https://www.project-
  |syndicate.org/commentary/russia-war-economy-weakening-under-sanctions-
  |by-anders-aslund-2024-10)


|u/CodeMonkeyX - 17 hours
|
|??? That's not how negotiations work. "Hey buddy give up your bargaining
|chip before we start negotiating, then we can negotiate."


  |u/marconis999 - 11 hours
  |
  |Ukraine used to have nuclear missiles. Gave them to Russia in exchange
  |for a treaty. I think Ukraine might not believe Russia's intentions.


|u/m270ras - 16 hours
|
|Russia wants ukraine's leverage back before negotiations


|u/k4Anarky - 15 hours
|
|"In that case you can tell your Russian troops in Kursk to eat shit and
|die but looks like they're doing that already."


|u/jmptx - 14 hours
|
|Easy- Russia gets Kursk back once they’ve given back Donetsk, Luhansk,
|Zaporizizhia, Kerson & Crimea.


|u/Belgand - 13 hours
|
|The title is written in a way that makes it a bit unclear. It's talking
|about how Russia is putting extra effort into *attacking* Kursk in order
|to militarily retake the land before any negotiation might happen.
|Essentially, they want to strengthen their bargaining position and take
|away one of the few things Ukraine has that could force concessions.


|u/soulsnoober - 13 hours
|
|Ukraine holding a "actually, do you want to be part of Ukraine"
|referendum there would be *fabulous*


|u/nik-nak333 - 13 hours
|
|"We want your only leverage before we come to the table."  Get the fuck
|outta here.


|u/keronasx - 13 hours
|
|That's ...not how negotiations work


|u/Nostradamus_of_past - 4 hours
|
|Ukrainians are paying the price for our weakness. No, Russia will not
|nuke all earth, they are just using threats to see how weak the west is.
|People need to understand that there is only one way for peace: Russia
|to leave Ukraine. Simple as that. Any other outcome would be a victory
|for Putin and he will come back a few years after. It's important thar
|ppl understand how it works


|u/SandwichOk4242 - 18 hours
|
|The only tell is that Russia is not eager for negotiations at rhe
|current juncture.


|u/Steve0-BA - 17 hours
|
|Wish in one hand.....


|u/Major-Check-1953 - 17 hours
|
|Russia can negotiate after it pulls out of Ukraine.


|u/grahampositive - 17 hours
|
|Now that his administration is a lame ducki baby understand why Biden
|won't let Ukraine off the chain with long range weapons. Should go all
|in before January


|u/mandy009 - 17 hours
|
|they should call it a wash and give each other their 2013 borders back.


|u/Zorb750 - 17 hours
|
|Kursk for Crimea


|u/tilmanbaumann - 16 hours
|
|So? Ukraine wants Crimea back


|u/ItsTricky94 - 15 hours
|
|paywall. OP please post the text?


|u/Electronics_Hotel55 - 15 hours
|
|Russia is some bitches!


|u/agumonkey - 15 hours
|
|Maybe it would be useful to send people explaining the meaning of "fair"
|to russians. Clearly there's a problem there.


|u/I_ama_Borat - 14 hours
|
|Surely if they did, Russia would keep their word?!


|u/BlueShift42 - 14 hours
|
|Who gives up all their leverage before negotiating?


|u/yiliu - 14 hours
|
|Before we begin negotiations, we'd like you to give up all your
|leverage, please.


|u/MessageMePuppies - 14 hours
|
|If Russia gives back Crimea first then they might be in a position to
|make requests before negotiating.


|u/GuitarGeezer - 14 hours
|
|Russia offering negotiations is like a piranha who only knows one word
|and it is “parley” but has no idea what it means or what words even are
|but just attacks mindlessly bubbling out that word. Very very North
|Korean honestly.    I have a Russian history degree from a good school.
|Russian governments (with little objection from Russian citizens) have
|always been and likely will always be psycho-led genocide factories even
|on their best day. No Russian government (least of all Putin’s regime
|with or without him) has the scruples to observe any agreement for more
|than a few milliseconds should breach suit their whims. This isnt
|arguable, go ask Georgia, Ukraine, just list everybody in reach and a
|few at distance. Mafia governments cannot make peace.


|u/series_hybrid - 14 hours
|
|Ukraine needs Crimea, to prevent a tank invasion form a hostile
|neighbor.


|u/FlightExtension8825 - 13 hours
|
|Maybe they could swap it for Crimea?


|u/mosenco - 13 hours
|
|imaging they made peace with kursk still part of ukraine and during the
|peace ukraine speedrun to build some nukes to avoid russia invading
|again in the near future, and for years russia will have ukraine's dick
|pointing towards moscow lmao


|u/Vizpop17 - 12 hours
|
|Ukraine shouldn't give up one inch of Russia, until it get's back the
|land taken in this war.


|u/KSaburof - 12 hours
|
|So Kursk incursion (the one ruined z-pidorz offensive from north) was a
|double-brilliant move, after all :)


|u/JaVelin-X- - 12 hours
|
|What happened to accepting certain territorial realities?


|u/purplewhiteblack - 11 hours
|
|Ukraine will probably have made a nuke by January 20th.  They're pretty
|effective bargaining chips.


|u/Underwater_Karma - 11 hours
|
|Ok deal, you can have the Kursk back.  It's currently parked at about
|350 feet on the floor of the Barents Sea


  |u/Realistic-Try-8029 - 8 hours
  |
  |Happy diving, Vlad.


|u/Raxmei - 10 hours
|
|Capitulate first and then we can talk. This isn't a good faith peace
|offer. It's making peace-shaped mouth noises so that the credulous can
|keep on fooling themselves about Russia's intentions.


|u/i81u812 - 10 hours
|
|TIL they still have Kursk. Christmas Cookies..


|u/chrisagiddings - 10 hours
|
|Why should Ukraine drop their leverage? What a farcical demand.


|u/NameLips - 9 hours
|
|Wait, *before* negotiations? I think exchange of territory should be
|*part* of negotiations, right?


|u/TheRamanMan - 9 hours
|
|The world shouldn’t negotiate with terrorists


|u/rabidseacucumber - 7 hours
|
|What if everybody gave the captured territory back as a starting point
|of good faith….lol just kidding Putin & trump aren’t capable of that.


|u/BoosterGoose91 - 7 hours
|
|Fuck em, Ukraine for the big fat W


|u/GallorKaal - 2 hours
|
|Zelensky may have (had) his problems, but goddamn, he is a good leader


|u/GlumTowel672 - 2 hours
|
|Ha ha ha. Before negotiations? Fuck off.


|u/Ill-Maximum9467 - 1 hour
|
|Russia thinks Ukraine has to recognise the ‘territorial realities’ in
|any negotiation (we get to keep what we’ve stolen!).  Ok, if that’s the
|case, Russia has to recognise the ‘economic realities’ in any
|negotiation - that the sanctions will stay for decades, rendering Russia
|a total basket case like North Korea.  No flights in or out, no Russians
|holidaying anywhere else than Russia (China and NK), no oligarchs acting
|as if the world is their playground anymore - Russia is their
|playground, and no loans, no buyers of Russian gas/oil…nothing but
|splendid isolationism while Ukraine joins NATO and the EU and simply
|flourishes. ☺️


|u/commandrix - 19 hours
|
|Ukraine ought to not give Kursk back until Russia gives Crimea and the
|other Russian-occupied Ukrainian regions back.


  |u/coolbloo22 - 4 hours
  |
  |its like a 100th of the area they control


|u/dwilliams202261 - 19 hours
|
|As they shouldn’t.


|u/BaronVonLazercorn - 18 hours
|
|They can have Kursk back when Ukraine gets all of their territory back.
|Simple.


  |u/ElliotAlderson2024 - 12 hours
  |
  |So you got that out of your system. Did anything change on the ground?


    |u/LordoftheSynth - 10 hours
    |
    |But karma whoring!


|u/Mr_Carlos - 14 hours
|
|It's great that Ukraine isn't budging, but I really wonder how long they
|can last. Russia has got a lot more man power to throw in, and there's
|likely at least 2 months to go.  Hope they can hold on, but they're up
|against it.


|u/hanson3519 - 18 hours
|
|Ukraine has already said they would give it up when Russia agrees to get
|out of Ukraine including Crimea. (At least I remember reading that,
|correct me if I am wrong).


|u/WorldEcho - 17 hours
|
|Ukraine wants all invaded territory back before negotiations.


|u/fomites4sale - 14 hours
|
|If Russia wants Kursk back then they should take it back.


|u/CaptCrewSocks - 18 hours
|
|The Russian government isn’t really that good at enterprising
|legitimately they tend to blow in, blow up and blow out. They can’t
|sustain a legitimate effort and if they get forced into doing that they
|won’t be around very long, legitimacy is not in the playbook.   The
|world can force their hand but since we won’t get on the same page
|today, it is left up to a few to champion the terms and conditions and
|apply a vice that the greasy Russian government can’t slip out of.
|(That’s just my opinion)


|u/green_meklar - 16 hours
|
|That sounds perfectly reasonable, assuming Ukraine gets the Donbas and
|Crimea back too.


|u/Gigo360 - 16 hours
|
|Wait, are you telling me that Kursk it is actually under Ukrainian
|control? I thought there was nothing to worry about and it was just
|propaganda.


|u/Akul_Tesla - 14 hours
|
|Why the frick would they give up their leverage?


|u/icanhaztuthless - 14 hours
|
|Ukraine wants crimea back before negotiations.


|u/ohhellperhaps - 14 hours
|
|I'm sure Ukraine is more that willing to negotiate the return of Kursk
|for the Russian occupied territories. And reparations. They're not
|unreasonable.


|u/zyzzogeton - 14 hours
|
|Ukraine should insist that the rogue colony of Kievan Rus in Moscow
|submit to home rule from Kiev.


|u/ADHD-Fens - 14 hours
|
|[relevant Calvin and Hobbes](https://imgur.com/tnwgG)  Calvin ends up
|having to pay susie derkins a quarter to get Hobbes back in addition to
|returning her doll.


|u/CatboyInAMaidOutfit - 13 hours
|
|Why give into the demands of a nation that's about to crumble under its
|own revolution?


|u/dongbaeksasang - 12 hours
|
|Give us your leverage before we negotiate


|u/DeadJango - 12 hours
|
|My biggest hope is that Ukraine gets Crimea before they have to
|negotiate.


|u/Smallsey - 12 hours
|
|Ukraine should ask for all the kids Russia stole at the start of the war


|u/Cantgetabreaker - 12 hours
|
|Hope they can take belgrod as well


|u/Direct_Bug_1917 - 12 hours
|
|Unstoppable force meets immovable object. This will go well.


|u/Any-Ad-446 - 12 hours
|
|So the North Koreans special forces is not working?.


|u/Gorman43 - 12 hours
|
|invade moscow


|u/SnooMacarons3359 - 12 hours
|
|Fuck russia


|u/Big-Zoo - 12 hours
|
|Oh well isn't that ironic


|u/RationalKate - 12 hours
|
|Hold The Line, Ukraine.


|u/raresaturn - 12 hours
|
|LOL now Russia begins to understand the realities on the ground


|u/crushingwaves - 12 hours
|
|No matter what Russia wants, we will march to Moscow.


|u/NYerstuckinBoston - 11 hours
|
|Hold that line with all you’ve got


|u/scorcher24 - 11 hours
|
|Who is not accepting territorial realities now?


|u/InBeforeTheL0ck - 11 hours
|
|No doubt taking that was also to have a negotiation chip, like hell
|you're getting that back.


|u/19941994ra - 10 hours
|
|And they will get what they want.   I dont see any other result right
|now. Just wishful thinking saying otherwise. 


|u/Killahdanks1 - 10 hours
|
|It’s good to want things.


|u/txwoodslinger - 8 hours
|
|Trade kursk for Crimea


|u/Gr8lakesCoaster - 8 hours
|
|Lol come and get it vlad.


|u/lickmyballssssss - 8 hours
|
|Biden should start a war with Putin before he leaves office.


|u/DisastrousAR - 8 hours
|
|The Kursk reality is absolutely abnormal. Russia for sure isn’t that
|strong.


|u/redneckrockuhtree - 7 hours
|
|In other words, Russia is struggling to regain the land.  It really *is*
|easy for Russia - GTFO Ukraine. It's that simple.


|u/FrequentDriver4690 - 7 hours
|
|Yes man


|u/machopsychologist - 6 hours
|
|Read the article - this is said by a Russian journalist, in the context
|of Russia's increasing intensity of the Kursk counteroffensive.  They've
|not demanded it back before starting negotiations.  > Russia launched a
|new counteroffensive last week, Ukrainian troops and military analysts
|said, flooding the front line with waves of soldiers (...)  > The timing
|appears to demonstrate the Kremlin’s growing appreciation for how Kursk
|may play into future talks: If negotiations are to occur, Russia wants
|to make sure only Ukrainian land is up for debate.  > “It is clear that
|Moscow will not start any negotiations until they have kicked out every
|last Ukrainian soldier from Kursk,” Konstantin Remchukov, the editor in
|chief of Nezavisimaya Gazeta who moves in Kremlin circles, told The
|Washington Post.


|u/Ok-Adhesiveness-4141 - 6 hours
|
|As usual the Reddit hive mind doesn't read the room 😂😂😂.


|u/Psychological-Sport1 - 5 hours
|
|Tell Russia to get stuffed!!!


|u/VadimShoigu - 5 hours
|
|They should hold elections in this autonomous Republic of Kursk


|u/Fun-Distribution-159 - 5 hours
|
|Fuck russia


|u/Excellent-Ad-3623 - 5 hours
|
|How about Russia puts everything back to how it was prior to them
|annexing Crimea.


|u/lumosmxima - 4 hours
|
|“No, we want Kursk clear before we talk…no, we are not going to give up
|Ukrainian territories!..yes, we want Kursk back, you heard me correctly”
|Lmfao


|u/JcbAzPx - 4 hours
|
|That's because they want the negotiations to revolve around "we keep the
|territory we stole."  Ukraine having Kursk gives them leverage that
|Russia can't handle.


|u/MewSixUwU - 4 hours
|
|that's not how negotiations work


|u/OarsandRowlocks - 4 hours
|
|Zelenskyy should pretend that he wants to negotiate over Kursk, and when
|they ask for the details, he gives them a map with the site for
|negotiations being Moscow but renamed to Nahui or hui, whatever makes
|sense grammatically.


|u/CBT7commander - 3 hours
|
|Kursk is the only active bargaining chip Ukraine has. I wouldn’t be
|surprised if they decided to defend it at all cost.


|u/SlyScorpion - 1 hour
|
|Classic Russia AKA Givemethatforfreestan.


|u/Own_Tomatillo_1369 - 1 hour
|
|referendum and annex


|u/Aware-Chipmunk4344 - 1 hour
|
|So indeed a clever move that Trump will take more troubles to sell out
|Ukaine than he did the Afghanistan and Kurdish people.


|u/UndeadBBQ - 1 hour
|
|"Give me your bargaining chip, before we bargain."


|u/spud6000 - 18 hours
|
|NOTHING is going to happen until Jan 21st.  until then it is all kabuki
|theater.


|u/xsv_compulsive - 17 hours
|
|That's because Kursk is the only hurdle in Trumps aspirations for Russia


|u/abolish_karma - 17 hours
|
|1991 borders was a good deal for Russia.     This realization may still
|dawn on them


|u/DirkDjelli - 18 hours
|
|Russia has three seviceable Tanks, one guy with a potato gun and some
|porn obsessed North Koreans with frayed penises and Plastic Pea shooters
|left in the fight. I could probably reach Moscow from where i am in a
|week. Shouldn't be too difficult for the good guys to go fuck up the
|Kremlin right now. Get after it!


|u/Dablicku - 15 hours
|
|If Ukraine will give up any territory right now, all the lost lives will
|have been lost forever. The president is a coward for even willing to
|negotiate about a surrender. Thousands of lives have been surrendered
|for one goal, to be a free Ukraine 🇺🇦.  The Ukrainian man who fled
|abroad not willing to fight for their country should look at what they
|have have done. Dying is a better option then to run away from your
|responsibilities.


|u/suzydonem - 10 hours
|
|I think a UN-monitored referendum should be held in Russia to see what %
|of the population would like to obtain Ukrainian (and eventual EU)
|citizenship.


|u/ispshadow - 10 hours
|
|Seems like a pretty cool trade, Kursk for getting back Ukrainian soil.
|Sit down at the table and I'm betting you guys can handle this in about
|10 seconds flat.


|u/Competitive-Strain-7 - 5 hours
|
|Well 83.7% of them voted to be Annexed. IDK


|u/fr0zen_garlic - 5 hours
|
|Why doesn't Russia use more of it's heavy bombers in this war? I mean
|maybe they are afraid of losing them in the event with a near peer (e.g.
|NATO, China etc) but they still have functional nukes right?  Seems
|insane, just carpet bomb the fuck outta the Ukrainians?!  I'm not pro
|Russia before anybody thinks that but from an all out war perspective it
|seems odd there haven't been too many bombers besides the Su-34s.


  |u/mystexlumiere - 4 hours
  |
  |Because to carpet bomb in this age, you need air superiority. It is no
  |longer like WW2 where you can have escort squadron of fighters
  |“safely” defending your bombers. The best missiles nowadays can even
  |be locked-on and fired before you can even see your target(BVR). These
  |bombers would be shot down long before they can even get in range for
  |carpet bombing.  Hence, Russia only dares to use them far outside SAM
  |range, firing cruise missiles or glide bombs.


|u/arahnovuk - 1 hour
|
|Oh yeah, the 20-kilometer mousetrap. Russia is not going to freeze the
|conflict. Continue the self-brainwashing. Your belief that the
|Ukrainians can do something there is in Russia's favor. After all, as
|long as you continue to support them, they, believing that they can
|convince the west of their combat capability, will continue to throw the
|already insufficient meat at Kursk. Believe every assertion of the
|Ukrainians without reason (as if they have not been throwing out fakes
|for 3 years already). This has never happened before and here it is
|again


|u/Russian_Victory - 50 minutes
|
|Last I checked Kursk is under Russian control.  You mean the other
|Kursk? Imaginary one?


|u/DevilsAdvocateMode - 10 hours
|
|Trump said he end it in a day. Promise not kept.    Why is gas still
|expensive?


  |u/Realistic-Try-8029 - 8 hours
  |
  |He’s already President, is he?


    |u/DevilsAdvocateMode - 8 hours
    |
    |Hes been the president since 2016.


      |u/Realistic-Try-8029 - 8 hours
      |
      |Maybe in your universe.


        |u/DevilsAdvocateMode - 8 hours
        |
        |It's a maga joke


|u/aussierulesisgrouse - 6 hours
|
|Trumps administration will literally wage a war against Ukraine, siding
|WITH Russia, and there will be an entire sector of Americans who will
|cheer it on, make up reasons why it’s great and normal and cool, and say
|Ukrainians are just crybabies.


|u/coolbloo22 - 4 hours
|
|Ukraine likely doesnt have much of an ability to stop them.


|u/Holiday-Equipment462 - 2 hours
|
|Why doesn't Russia just threaten to detonate a nuclear weapon over Kiev.
|If they don't leave? Of course Ukraine will withdraw. I don't understand
|why they are fighting a conventional war. Nuclear weapons are made to
|show strength.


  |u/Winter_Whole2080 - 41 minutes
  |
  |Are you insane?


|u/Fahslabend - 13 hours
|
|Oil is rarely brought up anymore. Russia was paying, as agreed, billions
|transporting oil through Ukraine.  I say, create a treaty: share Crimea.
|Share the importing and exporting. Make Ukraine what it used to be, the
|Gateway to Europe, not a barrier. It's exactly what Putin wants. All
|business. No politics. Russia gets what it wants, access to waterways,
|oil & natural gas exports, all alongside Ukraine's interests, too. A
|shared mass revenue. It would be a living treaty, built to only function
|with both. The ports would have to be run by  the AFL-CIO.


|u/oh_my_account - 13 hours
|
|Isn't budging? They are running away


|u/Material-Amount - 17 hours
|
|*“Okay, say goodbye to Odessa, then.”* **\~ Russia**


  |u/emasterbuild - 16 hours
  |
  |How would they do that exactly?