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|u/richanngn8 - 2 days
|
|med student here. i think one of the most uneducated reasons not to get
|vaccinated is the argument that it helps build natural immunity.
|unfortunately, the mortality rate of children before vaccines was around
|1 in 4 kids. people magically think that it will never affect them when
|it comes to statistics though. measles also happens to be the biggest
|exception to the old adage: “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.”
|measles wipes out your immune history, the antibodies that you built up
|from prior infections, making you extremely vulnerable to every
|bacteria, virus, fungus, or parasite out there that your body knew how
|to fight before measles is also associated with subacute sclerosing
|panencephalitis, a fatal disease that appears several years after
|infection that leads to coma and death. medically we cannot do anything
|about it so please vaccinate your kiddos
|u/TurboGranny - 2 days
|
|> build natural immunity Which is dumb since that is what vaccines do
|as well. You just get to skip all the downsides of a live infection.
|u/kuahara - 2 days
|
|>measles wipes out your immune history wow, what a TIL. That is very
|interesting (horrible, but interesting). I always just got the
|vaccine, but I also get every vaccination and inoculation known to man
|pretty much, so I didn't bother reading up on what most of the
|diseases do if you aren't vaccinated. I'm in tech and usually liken
|vaccines to 'virus definition updates for the human body'. This one
|wipes out my update history.
|u/richanngn8 - 1 day
|
|hah i love that analogy. i might start using that to explain the
|concept when people ask
|u/taetertots - 1 day
|
|Hey, do we need a measles booster as adults? I don’t see it on my
|chart
|u/jorrylee - 2 days
|
|Can they definitively tie the condition to measles? Edit: this
|particular article in the post does not mention encephalitis with a
|time specification of years after the initial infection. Part of
|scientific inquiry is asking questions such as how they tie the
|condition directly to measles when it occurs a few years later, then
|there’s more questions to be asked from there. I just wanted the med
|student I’m commenting to to say yes or no, which assumes they’ve
|likely read the reference articles and more as well.
|u/richanngn8 - 2 days
|
|yes. it is a diseased specifically caused by measles where death
|occurs within 1-3 years of diagnosis
|https://doi.org/10.1136/pmj.78.916.63
|u/iChoke - 2 days
|
|/u/jorrylee did you go through the paper op posted? Did your
|question get answered?
|u/Malphos101 - 2 days
|
|Of course they didnt. They were asking the question in bad faith
|because its a clickbait gotcha question they read in Crystal
|Healing Monthly and thought they would sound really smart
|"debunking the science".
|u/nicuramar - 2 days
|
|What’s the point of just spewing personal attacks?
|u/jorrylee - 2 days
|
|this particular article in the post does not mention
|encephalitis with a time specification of years after the
|initial infection. Part of scientific inquiry is asking
|questions such as how they tie the condition directly to
|measles when it occurs a few years later, then there’s more
|questions to be asked from there. I just wanted the med
|student I’m commenting to to say yes or no, which assumes
|they’ve likely read the reference articles and more as well.
|u/jorrylee - 2 days
|
|This particular article in the post does not mention
|encephalitis with a time specification of years after the
|initial infection. Part of scientific inquiry is asking
|questions such as how they tie the condition directly to measles
|when it occurs a few years later, then there’s more questions to
|be asked from there. I just wanted the med student I’m
|commenting to to say yes or no, which assumes they’ve likely
|read the reference articles and more as well.
|u/jorrylee - 2 days
|
|Thanks for sharing this article. This subsequent disease sounds
|terrifying (for those not reading the additional article, yes the
|causation being measles is definitive). I’d previously thought
|encephalitis was just an acute infection, not appearing later on,
|and needing life long treatment to survive. Excuse me, I need to
|go yell at certain family members again for not vaccinating their
|kids. The kids will be approaching adulthood soon and I’m hoping
|they will understand more science than their parents.
|u/nicuramar - 2 days
|
|> unfortunately, the mortality rate of children before vaccines was
|around 1 in 4 kids Where? Not in the US. In Denmark, measles vaccines
|only started in the late 60ies and it is definitely not the case that
|1/4 of children died from it before that. And most people before that,
|had it.
|u/RollingLord - 2 days
|
|Before vaccines, meaning before the invention of vaccination, not
|just the measles vaccine
|u/nicuramar - 2 days
|
|Right. That’s very different, obviously.
|u/Drahy - 1 day
|
|[Denmark](https://www.ssi.dk/-/media/arkiv/dk/vaccination/boernevacc
|inationsprogrammet/figur2_maeslinger.png?h=278&w=440&r=norevisionid)
|The vaccine was included in the program in 1987, but was used in
|significant numbers from 1982.
|u/Immediate_Hope_5694 - 1 day
|
|FYI I dont know what med school you are going to but Measles is NOT 1
|in 4 mortality for unvaccinated - more like 1 in 1000
|u/genyandgenzmixup - 1 day
|
|1 in 4 children before vaccines, meaning that other viruses
|contributed to the mortality rate
|u/Baud_Olofsson - 1 day
|
|Bacteria, mostly: diphtheria and tetanus.
|u/Careless-Weather892 - 2 days
|
|Sounds like the perfect time to put an anti-vaxer in charge of our
|governments healthcare.
|u/breadwinds - 2 days
|
|He’s literally responsible for an outbreak that killed 83 kids.
|u/TheBlazingFire123 - 2 days
|
|83 kids *so far*
|u/Morgolol - 2 days
|
|That's directly linked. His misinformation and propaganda is
|almost impossible to document, and spreads globally. He's single
|handedly responsible for untold numbers of deaths, and will affect
|humanity long after his death. To be fair Wakefield is probably
|the #1 cause of this insanity and has so much death on his hands.
|u/Timely_Bed5163 - 2 days
|
|Ah, but is he responsible, or is it the worm?
|u/robodrew - 2 days
|
|The worm is dead, so it's all on him.
|u/Mkwdr - 2 days
|
|Or is he dead , and it’s only the worm left?
|u/mindful_marmoset - 1 day
|
|I firmly believe this is the case. I don’t care what
|anyone says.
|u/Human_Robot - 1 day
|
|Exactly what the yeerks want us to think.
|u/doegred - 2 days
|
|Animorphs IRL
|u/RipIT13 - 2 hours
|
|Whats wakefield?
|u/That-redhead-artist - 1 day
|
|That's just it. I'm Canadian, but the crazy is spreading here.
|Like some people gave said, measles can completely reset your
|immune system to 0 and you can catch everything you've already
|built immunity to all over again. That could absolutely apply to
|COVID. People who get the measles could theoretically catch COVID
|again even if they were immunized. It's pretty scary.
|u/KingZarkon - 1 day
|
|I wish more people were aware of this fact. They somewhat
|recently discovered that a lot of people who got the measles
|vaccine before some time in the mid or late 80s are no longer
|immune due to an unrealized error with the vaccines. I had my
|doctor run a titer and guess what, I'm one of them. I also can't
|get revaccinated because of meds I take. If there is a measles
|outbreak. A lot of middle-aged (and older) folks are going to be
|absolutely SCREWED.
|u/UserSleepy - 1 day
|
|You can already catch COVID again, the vaccines are not broad
|enough to eliminate infection just reduce negative outcomes.
|Also studies have shown COVID weakens your immune system as well
|so you end up with a bad time all around.
|u/AbsurdistByNature - 1 day
|
|In theory (I know this may be far fetched but I’m curious),
|could Measles treat autoimmune diseases then?
|u/pessimistoptimist - 1 day
|
|That and measles can also cause male sterility. Not in all cases
|of course. Telling mom's and dads who refuse to Vax their boys
|this bit of info sometimes changes their minds. If not, at least
|there is a non zero chance of future generation of stupidity.
|u/PapaGeorgieo - 1 day
|
|Can I get some info on this please?
|u/breadwinds - 1 day
|
|In Samoa, nurses mistakenly added muscle relaxant to the MMR
|vaccine and it resulted in the death of two infants. RFK jumped on
|this event and used it as an example of MMR dangers (despite it
|being user error). Vaccination rates fell from the 90s to the 60s.
|An outbreak subsequently happened and infected thousands of kids
|leading to many deaths.
|https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/18/these-babies-should-
|not-have-died-how-the-measles-outbreak-took-hold-in-samoa
|u/cqs1a - 1 day
|
|American Samoa*
|u/Neospecial - 2 days
|
|"Trust us, he's not anti-vaccine! That's just spreading lies! It's
|very well documented that he's not anti-vaccines!" True, he's said it
|himself. He's not anti-vaccine. He's just "Pro-safe vaccines". While
|just happening to also say "There's no vaccine that is, you know, safe
|and effective."
|u/Brodellsky - 2 days
|
|If you were expressly looking to destroy the United States, then yes.
|u/deadsoulinside - 2 days
|
|Remember when Biden made the meme "Get in Jack, we're bringing Roe
|back"? We now need a meme of RFK Jr in a car "Get in Jack, we're
|bringing measles back"
|u/Alastor3 - 2 days
|
|There is no way pharmaceutical corporation wont boot RFK Jr out.
|u/NorthernerWuwu - 2 days
|
|It is a pretty damned sad timeline when Americans are hoping for Big
|Pharma's undue political influence to save them from the asshat they
|voted for.
|u/Gamebird8 - 2 days
|
|Gimli: "Never thought I'd see a day fighting side by side with
|Corporate Interests." Purdue Pharma: "What about side by side
|with the enemy of your enemy (who is your friend by proxy)?"
|Gimli: "Aye, I could do that!"
|u/TheFlyingBoxcar - 1 day
|
|Man the Director’s cut was wild…
|u/loosehead1 - 1 day
|
|I mean neither here nor there but Purdue is actually a tiny
|pharma company who really just sells opioids which is why they
|were such greedy soulless bastards, it was their cash cow.
|u/boogie_2425 - 2 days
|
|Seriously, oh the irony! The same craziness we fought against is
|coming to the rescue? What a topsy turvey world we live in now.
|u/is0ph - 2 days
|
|He doesn’t sound very healthy anyway. He could catch something.
|u/ChatriGPT - 1 day
|
|He's gonna gut regulations which will make it cheaper and easier for
|them to get stuff approved. He's a useful idiot.
|u/nobadhotdog - 2 days
|
|I think there’s more money responding to a virus than preventing it.
|I could be wrong
|u/korinth86 - 2 days
|
|If viewed from a very small timeframe. On longer scales you
|definitely come out ahead preventing massive disruptions to
|economic systems. Edit: not to mention deaths, blah blah blah
|u/rabidjellybean - 2 days
|
|The government is supposed to care about the long term but
|that's not going to be much of a thing soon. Anyone who
|financially benefits from an outbreak of measles isn't going to
|complain. Meta would love another pandemic. More people doom
|scrolling and potentially buying into VR.
|u/boogie_2425 - 2 days
|
|I saw reports that right before Covid was recognized,
|Republican leaders invested heavily in PPE, like masks ,
|gloves, body bags, etc. kinda sick but, it’s still happening.
|u/snakebite75 - 2 days
|
|Trump learned from the last time that he doesn't need to lock
|us up, start a pandemic and we will do it ourselves.
|u/vardarac - 2 days
|
|Well, yeah, because if you don't [things like
|this](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-
|shots/2021/09/05/1034210487/covid-surge-overwhelming-
|hospitals-raising-fears-rationed-care) tend to happen.
|u/Zyrinj - 2 days
|
|Longer time scales are unlikely to generate enough short term
|stock price increases which is all shareholders care about. I’m
|going to give some benefit of the doubt to the scientists
|studying the diseases, but I struggle doing the same with the
|MBAs running the show.
|u/berejser - 2 days
|
|I would not be surprised if other countries start stockpiling in
|anticipation of an outbreak in the US or of disruptions to
|supply chains. Get ready for the rest of the world to put travel
|bans on people entering from the US.
|u/justMate - 2 days
|
|> very small timeframe. > > On longer scales Thankfully we
|live in times when people are interested in long term gains...
|oh
|u/Bitter_Split5508 - 2 days
|
|But that's not money that goes to the pharmaceutical companies.
|u/Sawses - 2 days
|
|You'd be surprised. Vaccines are *enormous* money, and pharma
|companies benefit from selling the best thing they can come up
|with. Pharma is one of those areas where "lots of money now beats
|more money later" actually benefits society. Cures sell better
|than treatments, and there's big money in prevention because
|everybody gets it rather than just the unlucky ones. Plus, I work
|in clinical trials. I don't treat patients, but if I screw up bad
|enough then the drug won't get approved. I know a lot of people in
|the industry, and many of them would absolutely splinter off into
|their own pharma company to create a cure if the company they
|worked for decided not to research it so they could keep selling
|their treatments. Not least because, if they do, they become
|obscenely wealthy. Many would do it on ethical grounds, but the
|rest would do it for the cash.
|u/NonnagLava - 2 days
|
|Well and beyond that, it's easier to sell a product you have *on
|hand and already approved* than get new stuff out there. Even
|"cutting corners" like during COVID, it's still cheaper to sell
|people the vaccines that already exist, already are known to
|work, and the risk factors are known. So it's not only
|cheaper, but easier to sell to the public, stopping production
|and sales of things like vaccines would just lose them money,
|no?
|u/Baud_Olofsson - 2 days
|
|> Even "cutting corners" like during COVID There were no
|corners cut for the COVID vaccines.
|u/NonnagLava - 1 day
|
|It's approval track was absolutely shortened.
|u/Baud_Olofsson - 1 day
|
|**They** (plural) went through the same testing every
|other vaccine does. The only thing that was shortened was
|the *bureaucratic overhead*, as every regulatory agency in
|the world was told to drop absolutely everything else and
|focus on COVID vaccines. What normally takes months of
|back-and-forth between companies and agencies *for every
|step of the process* could be shortened to just weeks *in
|total*. That combined with 1) the financial safeguards
|to be able to run phases II and III in parallel instead of
|having to wait and evaluate if every new phase makes
|financial sense and 2) the simple fact that COVID-19 was
|spreading like wildfire (unlike most vaccines where you
|have to wait years or even decades just to gather efficacy
|data, for COVID you could have statistically significant
|results within *weeks*) meant they could be approved in
|record time. No corners were cut.
|u/Momoselfie - 2 days
|
|Nah. Even in an outbreak Republicans will think it's a hoax or
|"just a flu"
|u/elpajaroquemamais - 2 days
|
|It’s not that he’s just eroding confidence in their products.
|u/saijanai - 2 days
|
|> I think there’s more money responding to a virus than preventing
|it. I could be wrong This is an international political game.
|Monetary gain is secondary here, just as it is for promulgation of
|the global warming is a hoax meme. A hint: which major country
|has the most to gain from continued sea level rise?
|u/Not_Stupid - 2 days
|
|> which major country has the most to gain from continued sea
|level rise? I'm not sure anyone "gains", but I'm guessing that
|Russia loses less than most. And they probably gain from
|increased temperatures.
|u/saijanai - 2 days
|
|It was poorly worded, but as Russia's seaport access improves,
|while the rest of the world's becomes worse, they benefit both
|from the loss of ports elsewhere AND the new access to
|potential ports that were too cold to be useful before
|warming. Or such is my intuition.
|u/manticorpse - 1 day
|
|They also get more access to natural resources as their
|permafrost melts. They have everything to gain from cooking
|the world...
|u/Ambitious-Maybe-3386 - 2 days
|
|There is more money for big pharma but it would cripple the rest
|of capitalism. The govt wouldn’t allow for that. You saw how
|keeping economy shut during covid was challenged and then used Red
|to protest it. That was just all the corporations complaining and
|politics made it happen.
|u/hydrOHxide - 2 days
|
|I think science denialism is not the answer to science denialism.
|u/iridescent-shimmer - 2 days
|
|This is the one time I hope pharma pulls the strings and/or
|absolutely buries this idiot in lawsuits. Honestly, he deserves
|criminal charges, but I'd settle for him losing everything.
|u/Inspector7171 - 2 days
|
|They will find his price and pay him off.
|u/TheMarkHasBeenMade - 2 days
|
|I’d be more worried about Big Pharma taking the chance to
|capitalizing and making more money off those who do want vaccines.
|So they’re still allowed but now you have to pay directly out of
|pocket instead of having any sort of insurance coverage. So once
|again it would only be a problem for those who aren’t rich. So it’d
|handle their problem of not getting money - they make up for those
|who aren’t getting the vaccines by charging more for those that do.
|u/MediocrePotato44 - 1 day
|
|Peptides, Ivermectin and sunlight will fix everything, the lawyer said
|so.
|u/JeffersonSmithIII - 2 days
|
|Our neoliberal democratically elected governor here in Colorado just
|gargled trumps taint and welcomed RFK into office.
|u/Gellix - 2 days
|
|I hate to say, but it can honestly save us from the fascism that we
|might experience
|u/Esset_89 - 1 day
|
|Lucky you, there is not much government healthcare in the US.
|u/bluewhale3030 - 2 days
|
|Nope because measles destroys any previous immunity to anything. Any
|child or adult who isn't vaccinated (due to their parents being
|antivax or being too young) is at extreme risk of not only getting
|very sick but also having no immune system after contracting
|measles. Antivaxxers won't be hurt because they themselves were
|vaccinated as children.
|u/GlitterPants8 - 2 days
|
|I have no immunity to meseals because my body is stupid. I've been
|vaxed several times and boosted but my body refuses to make
|antibodies. So it's not just people that haven't been vaccinated.
|u/rabidjellybean - 2 days
|
|I need to check on this for myself. My prep list for next year
|keeps growing and I'm already exhausted.
|u/GlitterPants8 - 2 days
|
|Just get your Dr to order a titer test for you. I only know
|because I entered a medical program and I had to get it done
|and update all my vaxs.
|u/Morgolol - 2 days
|
|Ah good point. We need to abolish ALL medical care in favour of
|natural selection. Smart.
|u/trwawy05312015 - 2 days
|
|I don’t think you understand how natural selection works.
|u/corr0sive - 2 days
|
|Wash your hands. Don't trade secretions with sick people. Eat your
|vitamins and minerals, get sunlight, avoid sugar and alcohol
|consumption.
|u/Careless-Weather892 - 2 days
|
|Wow thanks I had no idea.
|u/idiotcube - 1 day
|
|And get vaccinated.
|u/Jumping-Gazelle - 2 days
|
|Not getting a vaccine gives you: >*Even when people survive measles,
|serious health effects can occur, some of which are lifelong. Infants
|and young children are at greatest risk of serious complications from
|the disease, which include blindness, pneumonia, and encephalitis (an
|infection causing brain swelling and potentially brain damage).* And
|getting a vaccine gives you the risk of: >*Protection against the
|virus.* And thus evading all that other nasty stuff due to this virus.
|Sure, you can still get that anyway.
|u/min_mus - 2 days
|
|I've had six measles vaccinations and I'm still not immune to it (I'm
|officially a non-responder to the vaccination). I'm immune to
|everything else I've been vaccinated for, though, but the measles jab
|just won't "take". Folks who are immunocompromised, or are too
|young to be vaccinated, or who are non-responders count on herd
|immunity to remain safe and healthy.
|u/happuning - 2 days
|
|How can one find out if they have responded properly to a vaccine?
|Is there a specific test?
|u/ymasilem - 2 days
|
|An antibody titer test specific to the viral protein antigen
|contained in the vaccine can be performed. Though it may not be
|easy to convince your provider/insurance company to perform one
|w/o a compelling reason.
|u/phirebird - 2 days
|
|Can't we just show them a picture of the acting director of the
|HHS?
|u/TheWisePlinyTheElder - 2 days
|
|Vaccine titers. You can get them at your pcp.
|u/concentrated-amazing - 2 days
|
|Curious, why/how did you find this out? Do you have to have blood
|titres tested for some reason, like cancer treatment or an
|autoimmune disease? I would imagine there is a certain amount of
|non-responders who have zero clue because it's never tested for.
|u/Which_Quantity - 2 days
|
|Most healthcare jobs require testing for immunity. That’s how I
|know that I have immunity.
|u/concentrated-amazing - 1 day
|
|Ah, I didn't think of that, good point!
|u/GlitterPants8 - 2 days
|
|I'm the same. Stupid body.
|u/That-redhead-artist - 1 day
|
|My sister was vaccinated and everything, but still caught the
|measles when she was 10 or 11. So herd immunity is so important.
|People who don't get the vaccines (which have been tested and used
|for decades now) because they don't want to, are incredibly
|selfish. Edit to add: after having my son they suggested to get a
|rubella booster because I had low antibodies. I agreed because it
|really is a civic duty, I believe.
|u/Incromulent - 2 days
|
|As the saying goes, seventh time's the charm
|u/punkerster101 - 2 days
|
|My mother is like this with German measles, vaccinated every time
|she had a a kid, then tested when the next kid came along and
|vaccinated again rince and repeat
|u/right_there - 2 days
|
|I'm the same, but for mumps. I've had seven MMRs over the last few
|years (on top of the ones I got as a child) and everytime I titer I
|have no mumps antibodies.
|u/min_mus - 1 day
|
|I won't give you mumps if you don't give me measles. Deal?
|u/right_there - 1 day
|
|I'm gonna hold you to that!
|u/Baud_Olofsson - 2 days
|
|Then there's [SSPE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subacute_sclerosing_
|panencephalitis): you get measles and recover just fine. But
|unbeknownst to anyone, the measles virus is still hiding out in your
|brain. Then 5, 10, 15 or even 20 years later it reemerges. It starts
|with personality changes, mood swings and clumsiness - and with most
|people getting measles in early childhood and SSPE's latent period,
|this tends to coincide with just becoming a teenager, so in the
|beginning it will probably be written off as such. When the seizures
|and memory loss start, however, everyone will know that something is
|seriously wrong. But by the time doctors figure it out it will already
|be too late: what follows is a progressive loss of bodily functions
|and mental faculties over the course of a few years, until finally you
|die, confined to a bed not knowing who your family is anymore.
|Measles: a "harmless childhood disease".
|u/Retro_Dad - 2 days
|
|Even wilder is that a measles infection can reset your immune system’s
|memory - making you susceptible to everything you’ve had (or been
|vaccinated against) in the past.
|u/boones_farmer - 2 days
|
|It's ironic that this specific virus specifically targets their
|entire 'natural immunity' horseshit.
|u/TurboGranny - 2 days
|
|Yup. It's such a hilarious hill for them to die on.
|u/That-redhead-artist - 1 day
|
|That is the craziest thing. Don't to get vaccinated? Or, the real
|truth, don't let your kids get vaccinated? Have fun catching the
|measles, and if they recover fine, enjoy catching every cold virus
|you've ever had again, and flu. Maybe even COVID this day and age
|u/ididntseeitcoming - 2 days
|
|Sounds like a win all around
|u/Joeymacca1982 - 2 days
|
|I’m not sure I’d say that protection against measles is a risk that
|the vaccine gives you. Protections against the virus is a benefit, not
|a risk. The risks are more around minor, temporary side effects like a
|sore arm, fever, rash, etc. But even those I would hesitate to call
|risks.
|u/zizp - 2 days
|
|> Protections against the virus is a benefit, not a risk. That's
|the point they are trying to make. It's called rhetoric.
|u/basicradical - 2 days
|
|Expect a lot more measles and polio in the US now that Brainworms
|Kennedy is running the show.
|u/marconis999 - 2 days
|
|The kicker is that he sounds like someone you probably shouldn't be
|taking life counseling from. Even before you learn he's talking
|tinfoil-hat stuff.
|u/pyuunpls - 17 hours
|
|The tinfoil hat definitely didn’t protect him from brain worms
|u/Healthy_Article_2237 - 2 days
|
|Hang on, it’s about to get much worse.
|u/ATribeOfAfricans - 2 days
|
|RFK Jr is just getting started. He has already done his part to kill
|Samoans, now he's bringing his efforts back home!
|u/willun - 2 days
|
|[Here is an article on what he did in
|Samoa](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/07/how-rfk-jr-
|falsely-denied-his-connection-to-a-deadly-measles-outbreak-in-samoa/)
|>In the years prior to 2019, measles had not been a problem in Samoa.
|But in 2018, two infants died after receiving the measles vaccine. The
|country quickly placed its vaccine program on hold, as vaccine
|opponents, including Children’s Health Defense, exploited theses
|deaths to raise questions about the safety of vaccines. The
|vaccination rate plummeted from in the 60-to-70 percent range to 31
|percent. But the problem, it turned out, was not with the vaccine. Two
|nurses had mistakenly mixed the vaccine with a muscle relaxant. Once
|this was revealed, CHD did not update social media posts suggesting
|the vaccine was the culprit. (Those posts are no longer available.)
|CHD is the RFK jr led organisation
|u/kuahara - 2 days
|
|This indirectly also highlights an education problem. Roughly
|30-40% of the population failed to ignore both proponents and
|opponents of the vaccine and simply observe that even if the deaths
|were directly related to the vaccine, this is 2/x deaths where x >
|150,000. In other words, without listening to anyone, it can just
|be observed that 99.999987% of everyone that got it lived. Johns
|Hopkins says 9 out of 10 children who are in contact with a measles
|infected person will contract the virus.
|u/willun - 1 day
|
|Antivaxxers do not push logic, but emotion. They often self
|contradict. The next pandemic will probably be, unfortunately,
|worse.
|u/nopenopechem - 2 days
|
|Why would a nurse do that?
|u/willun - 2 days
|
|Incompetence. It happens.
|u/nopenopechem - 2 days
|
|No, why would you want to mix a vaccine with anything i mean.
|Why are they mixed? Is this common practice?
|u/willun - 2 days
|
|The BBC says... >But the deaths were later established to
|have been due to the nurses mixing the vaccine with an expired
|muscle relaxant, instead of water. >The two nurses pleaded
|guilty to manslaughter and were sentenced to five years in
|prison. >"We have to make clear that vaccines are perfectly
|safe," Mr Yett said. >"These deaths were due to human error.
|But the fact that you had two children die on the same day in
|the same institution, obviously caused a great deal of
|distrust towards the health system and towards vaccinations.
|>"It provided the perfect opening for people who wanted to
|spread misinformation and lies."
|u/Baud_Olofsson - 2 days
|
|Vaccines come packaged in different ways: pre-filled syringes
|ready to inject, single-dose vials (take a syringe, fill it
|with the vial's contents, and inject), multi-dose vials (take
|a syringe and fill it with the specified amount for a single
|dose), and so on. Generally, the more convenient the
|packaging, the more expensive it is to ship and store it: you
|normally need unbroken cold chains where the temperature never
|ever drops below a certain point, and the more convenient the
|packaging the more space they take up (a normal vaccine dose
|is just 0.5 ml - compare that to the volume of a complete
|syringe) *and* the more fragile they tend to be. So by the
|far cheapest way to ship and store vaccines is - if they can
|survive the process - to freeze-dry them. This makes it an
|attractive option especially for developing countries. The
|upside is that it's cheap and has less refrigeration
|requirements, but the downside is that the vaccines have to be
|reconsituted to a liquid of the right concentration before
|use. That step is what the nurses in Samoa messed up.
|u/willun - 2 days
|
|I took it to be "mixed up". In other words, they confused the
|two bottles. There are other examples of nurses confusing
|medicine. It is rare but it does happen.
|u/ATribeOfAfricans - 1 day
|
|Thanks for the context and correction, had the location mixed up in
|my mind
|u/deadsoulinside - 2 days
|
|He also wants to take anyone taking antidepressants and ADHD meds and
|have them work on organic farms for a few years. Sounds like slavery
|with extra steps. >He argued that growing organic foods would help
|people recover from addiction as “a lot of the behavioral issues are
|food related. A lot of the illnesses are food related.” >At his
|proposed wellness farms, cellphones and screens in general would be
|banned. He has previously claimed that 5G cellphone technology could
|lead to health issues. >“I’m going to create these wellness farms
|where they can go to get off of illegal drugs, off of opiates, but
|also illegal drugs, other psychiatric drugs, if they want to, to get
|off of SSRIs, to get off of benzos, to get off of Adderall, and to
|spend time as much time as they need, three or four years if they need
|it, to learn to get reparented, to reconnect with communities,”
|Kennedy said during the event. https://www.the-
|independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/rfk-jr-kennedy-
|addicts-wellness-farms-b2585835.html
|u/ATribeOfAfricans - 1 day
|
|Hilarious coming from a guy who takes a slew of artificial hormones
|to combat his natural physiology. 70+ million people went out of
|their way to vote for this
|u/duglarri - 1 day
|
|From a former heroin addict.
|u/LuckyNo13 - 1 day
|
|Eh he is an absolute Looney tune but you say he *wants* to take
|people off of them and that just reads like he wants to *offer* the
|opportunity to get off of them. SSRI withdrawal can be very bad even
|when down stepping dosage. Again, let me make this clear, this
|dude is batshit and shouldnt be in charge of his own healthcare much
|less anyone else's. But your wording is the type of wording that
|constitutes misinformation.
|u/Kneesneezer - 22 hours
|
|I was wondering how they were going to maintain farming once they
|deport millions of people… cool, forced labor to improve mental
|health…
|u/showsomesideboob - 2 days
|
|From CDC website: "Measles was declared eliminated in the United States
|in 2000. This was thanks to a very high percentage of people receiving
|the safe and effective measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine. In
|recent years, however: U.S. MMR coverage among kindergarteners is now
|below the 95% coverage target—much lower in some communities—and is
|decreasing. Global measles activity is increasing, meaning more chances
|of an unvaccinated person infected with measles abroad returning to the
|United States. U.S. Cases in 2024 Total cases 277 Age Under 5 years:
|114 (41%) 5-19 years: 86 (31%) 20+ years: 77 (28%) Vaccination Status
|Unvaccinated or Unknown: 89% One MMR dose: 7% Two MMR doses: 4%
|Previous years 2023: 59 cases 2022: 121 2021: 49 2020: 31 2019: 1,274
|2018: 382"
|u/turbosexophonicdlite - 2 days
|
|People are so stupid and it makes me very sad and extremely angry.
|These morons are risking everyone's health over misinformation. In the
|early 2000s it felt like we were on such a good track as far as
|trusting science and doctors (outside of climate change), but the
|backsliding in almost every area is so frustrating to see.
|u/matrushkasized - 2 days
|
|Measles is especially nasty because it can make your immune system
|forget about the solution curing other diseases it was previously
|exposed to.
|u/mvea - 2 days
|
|I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for
|those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
|https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7345a4.htm?s_cid=mm7345a4_w
|From the linked article: Worldwide, there were an estimated 10.3
|million cases of measles in 2023, a 20% increase from 2022, according to
|new estimates from the World Health Organization (WHO) and the U.S.
|Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Inadequate
|immunization coverage globally is driving the surge in cases. Measles
|is preventable with two doses of measles vaccine; yet more than 22
|million children missed their first dose of measles vaccine in 2023.
|Globally, an estimated 83% of children received their first dose of
|measles vaccine last year, while only 74% received the recommended
|second dose. Coverage of 95% or greater of two doses of measles vaccine
|is needed in each country and community to prevent outbreaks and protect
|populations from one of the world’s most contagious human viruses.
|“Measles vaccine has saved more lives than any other vaccine in the past
|50 years,” said Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, WHO Director-General. “To
|save even more lives and stop this deadly virus from harming the most
|vulnerable, we must invest in immunization for every person, no matter
|where they live.” As a result of global gaps in vaccination coverage,
|57 countries experienced large or disruptive measles outbreaks in 2023,
|affecting all regions except the Americas, and representing a nearly 60%
|increase from 36 countries in the previous year.
|u/mdcbldr - 2 days
|
|Measles is a nasty one. It is one of the most infectious agents known.
|Prior to the vaccine it was killing 130,000 to 150,000 children annually
|in the US (1955-ish). It would be double that today. Herd immunity is
|somewhere between 93 and 95% vaccinated. The vaccination rate varies
|from state to state. The CDC shows that many counties in the southeast
|are dropping below that herd col limit
|u/cageordie - 2 days
|
|The current anti scientific anti knowledge anti education rhetoric is
|having the inevitable effect. I just hope it affects the ignorant more
|than the rest of us.
|u/LaSage - 2 days
|
|RFK, Jr cannot wait to increase those deathcounts.
|u/UnwiseMonkeyinjar - 2 days
|
|Dont worry the Christian fascist regime is going prescribe thoughts and
|preyers
|u/Stunning_Policy4743 - 2 days
|
|Dying of a disease that you can be vaccinated for should be treated like
|a suicide.
|u/tyreka13 - 2 days
|
|Many of the victims are children who do not have the bodily autonomy,
|ability to go out and get, or understanding of immune systems and
|vaccines. Their vaccinated parents are making that choice for them.
|u/Inaise - 2 days
|
|That should be treated like murder.
|u/zizp - 2 days
|
|Manslaughter
|u/IGNOOOREME - 2 days
|
|First degree, rhough. Theyre making a deadly choice for someone
|under their medical jurisdiction, one that they have been
|counciled against by doctors and medical boards and the FDA.
|Even if they didn't directly intend to kill them, they rhey
|certainly took deliberat steps in that direction.
|u/ViolentBee - 2 days
|
|The antivax parents should be charged with murder when their kids die
|u/Serifan - 2 days
|
|I think you will find the vast number of cases is not due to “anti-
|vaxxers” but people from poorer countries not being vaccinated.
|u/bluewhale3030 - 2 days
|
|They most likely mean in the US where measles vaccines are
|available to everyone
|u/BlueCity8 - 2 days
|
|Should not be covered by insurance in the USA. if you’re anti-vax, you
|can pay out of pocket.
|u/Chasin_Papers - 2 days
|
|Or raise their health insurance premiums for refusing because
|there's increased risk of preventable disease causing large medical
|bills.
|u/VirtualMatter2 - 2 days
|
|But they kill other people too. Not just themselves.
|u/rocketsocks - 2 days
|
|Reminder that measles infections cause short-term immunosuppression and
|devastate existing acquired immunity (from exposure and vaccination),
|which results in significantly increased chances of dying from other
|infectious diseases.
|u/mymar101 - 2 days
|
|With RFK Jr at the head of Health and Human Services, you can almost
|make it a certainty that all of the great epidemics of the past are
|coming back. Probably with a vengeance.
|u/zizp - 2 days
|
|Well, it's God's will.
|u/marconis999 - 2 days
|
|Epidemic, pandemic, bankruptcy...sounds like Trump.
|u/IGNOOOREME - 2 days
|
|The mortality rated for women, children, and poc are about to go up.
|u/mymar101 - 1 day
|
|Although, that will have more to do with the bans being implemented
|around abortion, and medical care.
|u/virtual_human - 2 days
|
|And it's going to get worse because stupid and ignorant people don't
|know when to shut up and listen to smarter people.
|u/AfricanUmlunlgu - 2 days
|
|the problem is clever people are open to new ideas but the ignorant
|just double down on their stupidity
|u/nysflyboy - 1 day
|
|I was one of the "lucky" ones who got vaccinated with a bad
|(ineffective) batch of vaccine in the early 70's. I later caught it
|from being exposed (just in the same room) to another kid, who was not
|yet showing symptoms, for like FIVE MINUTES. According to my mom it was
|by far the sickest she'd ever seen me, or anyone, not already dead. I
|wound up in the Navy hospital in Bremerton for days (Dad was in Vietnam)
|and barely recovered. I still, to this day, wonder if this is why I
|was not ever really a super healthy kid. Caught every stinking cold
|every year, had bronchitis every single fall and so so many bouts of
|strep, etc. I don't feel I finally got healthy until I was in my mid
|20's. To think that our society has devolved to this extent just
|boggles my mind. I had hoped that the RFK Jr appointment was basically a
|troll, and would not really happen, but here we are. Its gonna be sad in
|a few years when kids start dying regularly from all these very
|preventable diseases.
|u/FernandoMM1220 - 2 days
|
|can we mandate the measels vaccine yet?
|u/bcopes158 - 2 days
|
|We could but we won't.
|u/FernandoMM1220 - 2 days
|
|we can and we will.
|u/zxern - 2 days
|
|But how many have to die before we do?
|u/avalon68 - 2 days
|
|It’s been a growing problem for many years now - rfk is just the
|icing on top. Frankly, children will die and many will be left
|disabled and then perhaps the tides will shift back towards
|common sense and vaccine uptake will increase. Rfk could
|actually spell the end of the antivax movement if you think
|about it.
|u/bcopes158 - 2 days
|
|I hope you're right.
|u/Zealotstim - 2 days
|
|Sometimes people need to learn things the hard way. This may be one of
|those cases. If you mandate it, you are apt to just make a bunch of
|ignorant people resentful of being made to make the right choice.
|Maybe public perception about vaccines will improve if there are major
|natural consequences for the "do your own research" crowd.
|u/FernandoMM1220 - 2 days
|
|thats a horrible idea, too many people will die or become disabled.
|u/Zealotstim - 2 days
|
|It's not what I want, just something I wonder about. It's a
|horrible potential future for sure. People were protected so well
|for decades, and they eventually started to turn away from being
|protected. They forgot what they were being protected from, and
|started thinking they knew better. Again, I don't want this for
|us, but it may be what happens before sentiment changes and 99% of
|us start vaccinating again.
|u/FernandoMM1220 - 2 days
|
|nah what happens next is vaccine mandates.
|u/zxern - 2 days
|
|And yet even after covid more and more people are becoming anti-
|vax. The current generations are just too far removed from the
|past consequences so they have to learn it the hard way. Covid
|was the warning shot and people took the wrong lessons from it so
|the next outbreak will be far worse.
|u/FernandoMM1220 - 2 days
|
|nah thats too destructive. vaccines should have been mandated
|in the 50s but for some reason they refused. we have to do it
|now.
|u/zxern - 2 days
|
|Agreed but the people just put the anti-vax crowd into power.
|I don’t see any hope of mandating vaccines anytime soon. In
|fact I expect the current public school mandates to be removed
|in the next 2 years.
|u/T00FEW - 1 day
|
|> Sometimes people need to learn things the hard way. This
|may be one of those cases. its very unfortunate but there
|are going to be a lot of hard lessons moving forward
|u/Caterpillar-Balls - 2 days
|
|They get what they choose, immunizations are free and required for
|public schools.
|u/FernandoMM1220 - 2 days
|
|the problem is that everyone else does too. we need 100%
|vaccination rates to stop measles and every other virus
|completely.
|u/Finngrove - 2 days
|
|And… Trump is appointing an anti-vaxxer to run the health department.
|Thanks Trump voters!
|u/GimmeStream - 2 days
|
|According to the Tagesschau (one of the big government funded news
|outlets in Germany) there were only low double digit cases a year for
|the last years. Since Germany now is the refugee camp of the world,
|cases have skyrocketed: https://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/video
|-1401524.html
|u/frisch85 - 2 days
|
|> According to the Tagesschau (one of the big government funded news
|outlets in Germany) I love that you wrote this because Tagesschau,
|which belongs to the ARD, is actually not government funded but funded
|by the people (GEZ), but yes they're doing "news for the government"
|instead of unbiased news reporting which is the supposed goal and the
|reason why it's funded by the german citizens.
|u/GimmeStream - 2 days
|
|Please forgive my incorrect description of the nature of the news
|outlet. It’s government funded in the sense that the government
|mandates the collection of the funds and their use for
|broadcasting.
|u/Bitter_Split5508 - 2 days
|
|How much nonsense can someone put into one comment? Major anti-vax
|groups are politically right-wing rural populations and green-liberal
|urban upper classes. Major measles outbreaks tend to happen at
|Waldorf-schools, not amongst foreigners. Germany has always tried its
|utmost to keep refugees out and deny them their rights. Whining about
|refugee numbers in Germany is a joke when you compare it to the
|situation with refugees in countries like Greece, a situation German
|politicians helped create in order to prevent refugees from reaching
|Germany. And the biggest wave of refugees Germany could not stop from
|actually reaching Germany was during the Syrian civil war, which is
|years before the current decline of vaccination rates.
|u/Sphlonker - 2 days
|
|Question. Are these statistics all people who aren't vaccinated? Or are
|there people (like a commenter on here) that, although they get the
|vaccine, still get measles?
|u/Baud_Olofsson - 2 days
|
|No vaccine is 100% effective. The measles vaccine in MMR is one of the
|most effective ones though: after 2 doses, it's been estimated to be
|[up to 99% effective](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK554450/).
|> Estimates of the effectiveness of the MMR vaccine are 99% in measles
|prevention after a second vaccination, over 95% in the prevention of
|mumps, and 90% in the prevention of rubella after a single dose.
|u/zach_dominguez - 2 days
|
|Don't forget TB is making a come back.
|u/LuckyNo13 - 1 day
|
|Coming to America in 2025 - American Roulette!! Which way will YOU die??
|Will it be a fatal pregnancy? Preventable disease? Victim of a hate
|crime? Death at an internment camp? Malnutrition? Tainted food or water?
|Or one of the many other totally unnecessary ways you can die in
|America? Stay tuned to find out, season one starts in January!!!!
|u/saijanai - 2 days
|
|By the same token, lack of measles vaccination is poised to destroy more
|lives than any other decision to refrain from medical treatment in the
|last 50 years. As an aside, I'm betting that Russia (the source
|worldwide for much of the anti-vax propaganda) isn't putting up with
|this decision by its own citizens.
|u/Baud_Olofsson - 2 days
|
|Measles is still endemic in Russia, which makes them have [the highest
|incidence in
|Europe](https://www.who.int/europe/publications/m/item/measles-and-
|rubella-monthly-update---who-european-region---september-2024).
|u/saijanai - 21 hours
|
|Yeah, well, they still have Putin as well. We know where HIS
|priorities lie.
|u/RailGun256 - 2 days
|
|hoo boy... this is about to get way worse.
|u/SamL214 - 1 day
|
|And to think we nearly eradicated it and all that harm done by one
|stupid doctor and Jenny McCarthy
|u/Baud_Olofsson - 1 day
|
|We have never even been close to eradicating measles. Even at its
|nadir, we're still talking millions of cases worldwide.
|u/DataKnights - 2 days
|
|I'm 53 and got all my shots as were required back in the day to attend
|public school, are there any boosters I need to get now before things go
|to hell?
|u/7lexliv7 - 1 day
|
|I learned recently just how contagious measles are “When someone with
|measles coughs, sneezes, or talks, infected droplets spray into the air
|(where other people can breathe them in) or land on a surface (where
|they can make others sick) for several hours. If others breathe the
|contaminated air or touch the infected surface, then touch their eyes,
|noses, or mouths, they can become infected. Measles is so contagious
|that if one person has it, up to 90% of the people close to that person
|who are not immune will also become infected. Infected people can spread
|measles to others from 4 days before through 4 days after the rash
|appears.”
|u/nysflyboy - 1 day
|
|when I was little, I had an ineffective vaccine batch. Unknown to my
|mom of course. Later on, my mom visited the neighbor with me. Unknown
|to all, her kid had contracted measles. I was in the kitchen, in my
|moms arms, for like 5-10 minutes. Never touched anything and came down
|with it several days later. It is VERY contagious, and nearly killed
|me apparently. People are insane to not get the MMR vaccine for their
|kids. That and polio at least... Gonna be a sad decade if this crap
|continues.
|u/Jeremy_Zaretski - 1 day
|
|Consult with your doctor to see if an MMR vaccine is right for you.
|u/FadeIntoReal - 1 day
|
|Vaccines are amongst the greatest public health successes in the history
|of humans. They can’t cure stupidity.
|u/ComprehensivePin6097 - 18 hours
|
|We are about to have a lesson on natural selection.
|u/dedokta - 2 days
|
|Might be a good time to invest in Iron Lung companies.
|u/ebolaRETURNS - 2 days
|
|I wasn't able to pull up the primary study, but I'm suspecting counties
|in the Willamette Valley of Oregon and Northern California (especially
|Marin in the Bay Area) to loom large. There's an odd liberal-left
|contingent, born of granola hippie culture and now latching on to
|naturopathy, that's robustly anti-vax. They're also why we don't have
|water fluoridation in Portland and to some extent contribute to RFK
|Jr.'s origin story.
|u/hollow_bagatelle - 2 days
|
|I think it's time to bring back mandatory vaccinations. Too bad trumps
|in office now. Outbreak it is, I guess.
|u/brickyardjimmy - 2 days
|
|RFK Jr. is so pleased to hear this great news!
|u/IandouglasB - 2 days
|
|No vaccine for stupid
|u/Deere-John - 1 day
|
|Remind the rest of us who was the president in 2023? Apparently that's
|always the argument when it comes to shots.
|u/Baud_Olofsson - 1 day
|
|The president of the world?
|u/myrrorcat - 2 days
|
|A lack of adults is driving the surge.
|u/My2centavos - 1 day
|
|I have a red spot on my penis gland(head)
|u/ChewieArtist - 2 days
|
|Let's speed up the anti vaxer effect
|u/SteveMcQueen15 - 2 days
|
|The other day when my grandma learned that my little brother needed his
|vaccines for school she told him not to take the vaccines and to let her
|give him chlorine instead.
|u/MyCleverNewName - 2 days
|
|Will this be the scheduled 2025-2029 pandemic?
|u/Sunnysidhe - 1 day
|
|Coming to an American state near you in 2025
|u/MonkAndCanatella - 2 days
|
|You can thank covid and the let it rip methodology for this
|u/Gamer_Mommy - 2 days
|
|Let the idiots die out. The rest of us can vaccinate or stay as safe as
|possible.
|u/KathrynBooks - 1 day
|
|The problem there is that these antivaxers likely got vaccinated when
|they were younger.. the people not getting vaccinated now are their
|children
|u/ilJumperMT - 2 days
|
|unfortunately it risks that the strain mutates to bypass vaccines
|since there are hosts to work on
|u/Gamer_Mommy - 2 days
|
|How likely is that for measles? Does it have a chance to mutate and
|reproduce at the same rate as influenza/coronavirus? Does it have a
|chance to do that before the host dies and infects other people?
|u/OfficialDiamondHands - 2 days
|
|Dear god I hope that doesn’t come to America >.> I SAID DEAR GOD… I
|HOPE…. THAT DOESNT… COME TO AMERICA…!!!!
|u/marconis999 - 2 days
|
|Based on the election results, I'm not sure she's listening to us.
|