The New Ken Guide for Sf3 3rd Impact.
By Eric Chou
Email: scuddman2@attbi.com
mistmoore_train@hotmail.com
If you're a beginner, you probably could learn
a lot more from my Ryu faq, regardless of the fact that it is
completely outdated. Why a faq anyways? Why not?
You'd be surprised what you can do with him that people
don't know about.
I recommend using Courier New 10 point font to view this faq, or
use a word processor with word wrap (it'll look funny, but you can read
it).
I wonder if people even read this. Oh well, it's a good reference
source for my own use.
Last Updated 03/09/2002
This will be my final update.
I've only updated stuff I've tested, and there's a lot of stuff that
was changed.
Table of Contents:
Part 1: Ken's Story
Part 2: Quick Glance Move List
Part 3: Universal Commands and the Basics
Part 4: Ken's Standard Attacks
Part 5: Special Moves
Part 6: Supers
Part 7: Basic Tactics
Part 8: Combos
Part 9: New Stuff/Stuff that was changed.
Part 10: Damage/Combos Revised
-------------------------------------------------------------
Part 1: Ken's Story
Um, I don't think he has one. I guess he's just entering to fight
like he does every year. As Ryu would say, "You never get
tired of this, do you?" His ending is really lame. His
story is really lame. Goodness, you would think Capcom
would spend more time, but I guess they think nobody cares,
and Capcom isn't far wrong.
Now why would you use Ken over Ryu? Ryu's better right? Personally,
when I pick Ryu I lose a lot more. Ken's supers are more versatile,
he's better at crossing up, his dragon punches have more range, he's got
a good, cancellable ground chain, his air hurricane kick is much better...
At first glance Ryu might be better, but in the long run I like being
able to block a sweep or a fireball then bust out the shippu jinrai
kyaku super. Or use shin ryu ken against someone trying to cross me up.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Part 2: Quick Glance Movelist
Throws:
Grab and Knee Jab + Short
Grab and Dump Toward + Jab + Short
Grab and Flip Backwards Back + Jab + Short
Specials:
Fireball (Ha Dou Ken)(EX) Quarter Circle Toward + P
Dragon Punch (Sho Ryu Ken)(EX) Toward, Down, DownToward + P
Hurricane Kick (Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku)(EX) Quarter Circle Back + K
Double Hit Kick Overhead Back + Forward Kick, or hold
Forward kick.
Step and Kick Toward + Forward Kick
Single Hit Kick Overhead Toward + Roundhouse
Hold Roundhouse to cancel
Supers:
Sho Ryu Reppa X 2 Double Fireball Motion + P
Shin Ryu Ken X 1, Mash for more hits Double Fireball Motion + K
Shippu Jinrai Kyaku X 3 Double Fireball Motion + K
Chains:
Close S. Strong -> Close S. Fierce (Boths hits are cancellable)
Jab -> into any jab or short
Short -> into any jab or short
Ken's Cancellable moves:
Standing jab
crouching jab
crouching short
standing strong (close)
crouching strong
crouching forward kick
standing fierce (close)
crouching fierce
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Part 3: The Basics
Ken's basic tactics tend to be like Forest Law's in
Tekken. Get in their face, and go for stuffs. Try
to abuse the fact that he can combo his quicker moves
into his more damaging specials and supers.
This is assuming Ken is facing right.
When he's facing left, reverse the command motions.
jab(1) strong(2) fierce(3)
short(4) forward(5) roundhouse(6)
Forward Dash: Tap Toward Twice
The good thing about Ken's dash (or any shoto's) is that
it's fast. Doesn't go very far, but lets you cover distance.
That is its use, so use it that way. Remember you can't cancel
the dash, so no blocking if you dash!
Back Dash: Tap Back Twice
Ken dashes back. Doesn't go very far, but lets him back up
about a quarter screen distance. Use it to avoid attacks,
mess up jump-ins, and to get some space. Remember you can't
cancel the dash, so no blocking if you dash!
High Jump: Tap down, then tap straight up.
I occasionally use this for anti-air. Your priority is higher if
you're above your opponent
Forward Long Jump: Tap down, then tap up-toward.
Covers space faster! Ken will jump farther, faster,
possibly giving you a chance to jump over that fireball
and get a nice jump-in.
Tech Roll: Tap down as you are knocked down.
Ken will get up quicker and roll backwards out of the way
of most meaty attacks (attacks done as you get up.)
Doing so charges your super meter, so there is now no
reason not to do it.
You can never tech roll after getting knocked down by
the end of a super.
Sweeps are more difficult to tech roll.
You cannot be hit while tech rolling.
Overhead: Press strong and forward kick at the same time.
Ahh, the universal overhead. Ken will hop and punch downwards,
attempting an attack that must be blocked high.
It will go over some low attacks, so use it to punish low pokes.
I fake with this move a lot, because it has quick recovery
and moves Ken closer to the opponent. It can combo into his supers,
but not easily.
Throws:
1: Jab + short
Grab and kick in the nuts. Mash buttons to get up to 6 hits.
2: Jab + short holding toward
The grab and dump at your feet throw. Good Damage
3: Jab + short holding back
Ken's trademark roll backwards then toss throw. Covers quite a bit of
distance if your back is near the corner.
You can throw into a super. Use the jab + short + back throw and throw
your opponent into the corner and start up shippu jinrai kyaku.
Parrys:
1: Tap Toward
High parry. If you parry a move, you can cancel the parry into any
action you want, which means what a parry really does is give you
a time advantage. Sometimes enough of an advantage to do whatever
you want, sometimes not. It's important to remember a parry this way
because a parry doesn't gurantee anything. As an example, if you
parry Akuma's dive kick and try to attack he can block! Or even stuff
you with a dragon punch.
If you parry a standard jump in and try to do crouching fierce -> fireball,
the opponent has enough time to land and dragon punch you, though he
may not have enough time to block. Why this is exactly? I'm not sure.
You can usually only parry moves from your waist up high. Certain moves
can be parried high even if they hit your feet, such as Ibuki's Kunai.
2: Tap Down
Low Parry. Some moves can only be parried low.
3: Tap Toward in air
Parry in air. Only way to air parry now. Note that if you parry a
move in the air and attack with a slow move such as fierce your
opponent can parry back!
4: Tap Toward or down immediately after blocking a move
Red Parry. Causes you to parry the next hit in pre-canned
combos or chains. Necessary if you're blocking some supers!
Throw Break: Press Jab + short as you are thrown.
Usually when you try to throw someone attempting a throw on you this
happens.
Unlike in Tekken Tag, you cannot break a throw if you are still
lagging from the recovery of a move.
If you do a sweep and it is parried, then your opponent throws you,
you can't break that throw because you're still recovering from the
sweep.
-------------------------------------------------------
Part 4: The Basics.
Come on! Ken's a shoto! You've gotta know his stuff!
So instead, I'll try to talk about when to use what moves
and about the hit ranges.
High moves can be crouched under.
Overhead/mids must be blocked/parried high.
Special mids can be blocked/parried high or low
Lows must be blocked/parried low
The Jabs:
a. Don't use his standing jab. It sucks unless you want to
stuff overheads. It's a high! (People can crouch under)
It is cancellable.
It's best use is as an anti-air if you KNOW they'll try to air parry
b. Crouching jab is a special mid. Special? How is it special?
You can parry it high or low. You can block it high or low.
Only use to stuff moves. Will Stuff lots of low moves.
It is cancellable.
c. Jumping jab is one of Ken's few JUGGLE starters.
Too bad his juggles are tough! I recommend not using it.
It will only juggle if it hits an opponent in the air.
Actually, after some testing, it doesn't seem to setup juggles
that well in 3rd strike.
The Strongs:
a. Standing strong is the fastest way to charge your meter.
It's also a good poke. It's a high.
The close version is a special mid that links into Ken's fierce uppercut.
Keep this in mind when doing combos, especially after blocking moves
that leave you right next to your opponent.
b. Crouching strong is a special mid. You have no time
disadvantage if it is blocked! Keep that in mind when poking.
It has very high priority vs. a lot of other moves, including
most low pokes. Just make sure you have good timing.
Stuff low dash moves such as Sean's tackle and cancel into super.
c. I don't use jumping strong very much, but it's decent in air-air fights.
The Fierces:
a. Standing fierce isn't very good. It's slow,
is a high, but is very damaging.
Close up, Ken will do his classic uppercut.
The uppercut is special mid, cancellable, and pushes back
when it connects. Use as a combo filler.
b. Crouching fierce works a lot like his other uppercut.
Use it the same way. You can use it as a crappy anti-air.
Combo filler
c. jumping fierce is the jump attack to use. If it connects, you have
a million years to do as you like.
The Shorts:
a. Standing short is a linkable poke (it'll link into itself).
It's no longer cancellable. It is a low, so use it as a low poke.
(Want an example? Watch Eddie Lee's Ibuki in the B4 tape.
He uses that Toward + short of Ibuki's to good effect.)
It can be parried high, so watch out.
b. Crouching short is linkable into itself and cancellable.
It's a great low poke. Take advantage of the cancel!.
c. Jumping short is a juggle starter. Too bad Ken's juggles are Tough!
In 3rd strike it doesn't start juggles very well.
The Forwards:
a. Standing forward is a high. Yuck. Think of it as a crappy
version of Ryu's roundhouse. It's best use as a poke is when you think
your opponent is going to jump, especially as they get up.
If you hold the button down he does as double hit overhead.
Although it's slow, it's fairly safe when blocked, so you can still use
it as a decent poke.
b. Crouching forward kick. Everyone knows about this move.
Just one caveat! You have time disadvantage if it is blocked, so
don't try to attack again immediately after.
If it is blocked and you try another attack immediately, all the
opponent has to do is any quick poke and you will be stuffed.
Fortunately, you can still parry.
If you do this move from sufficiently far away enough, you don't
have to worry too much about the end lag of the move, so keep that
in mind as well.
In other words, don't do this move if you are too close to your opponent.
Another thing...if your opponent is right next to you and blocks this move,
said opponent has enough time to bust a really fast super on you!
c. Jumping forward kick.
This is Ken's crossup kick. That's really its only use. It's his
best jump in.
The Roundhouses:
a. Standing roundhouse is slow! Damaging, good range, special mid,
but slow!
SLOW! So slow a wary opponent can simply jump over it and do as they like.
Safe when blocked though, surprise people with dragon punches.
b. Crouching roundhouse. Low, knocks down, fast, but bad lag at end.
If you are a beginning player:
DO NOT USE.
If you are an expert player:
ONLY USE IF THEY HAVE NO WAY TO PUNISH THIS MOVE.
As soon as Chun-Li has that super charged up, stop using it.
Now if only I'd take my own advice...<sigh>
Oh yeah, I've played in 5 tournaments and I always get ousted by this move.
That's not to say don't use this move, just be careful.
Heck, I've even seen John Choi use this move and get smacked for it.
He won anyways, but it was funny, even though it looked like to me he did
it on purpose.
Toward + forward kick:
This is one of those weird funky kicks. Ken will step forward
and do a really crappy, slow, special mid. Mostly safe if blocked.
They have ten years to punish you as it starts up.
Back + forward kick, or hold down forward kick after doing forward kick:
Double hit overhead/mid. When it connects it pushes back.
You can combo shippu jinrai kyaku after it.
Toward + roundhouse:
Super slow wind up overhead. One hit only.
So slow, that it's impossible to land on
some people. Actually really difficult to combo into super.
If you hold down roundhouse, Ken will cancel the move, but the lag
is still horrendous.
------------------------------------------------------------
Part 5: The Specials
HADOU-KEN: Fireball motion plus punch.
Plus Two punches to Ex.
I don't know anybody that doesn't know what this is.
It is a special mid, but can only be parried high.
Only use to stuff people trying to come in.
Examples: Urien's chariot rush, Ryu's Hurricane kick.
The ex version hits twice and always knocks down.
Always use the fierce version, because it comes out the fastest.
Some cancels into fireball will only combo if the fierce or
ex version was used, rare as it is, they do exist.
Of course that only happens because Ken's hadou-ken is slow!
If you like doing crouching forward kick -> hadoken, then switch to
Ryu.
SHO RYU KEN: Dragon punch motion plus punch.
Plus Two punches to Ex.
a. Jab version. Knocks up, great range, fastest dragon punch of
all the shotos. Also has the least priority of all the shotos.
<sigh> It is a juggle starter in certain instances.
b. Strong version. Double hit. Only the last hit knocks down.
Has the least range of all his dragon punches.
Also unreliable, occasionally the 2nd hit doesn't hit.
Only use in super-cancels.
c. Fierce version. 3 hits, great range, great damage, great priority.
Really, really, really BAD recovery.
The ex version is a 4 hit version almost exactly like the Fierce
version.
TATSUMAKI-SENPUU-KYAKU: Backwards fireball motion plus kick.
Plus two kicks to ex.
The versions are all the same, just the button used determine the
number of hits. The first hit is a special mid, but will no longer
force the opponent to stand up. Sorry, it sucks in combos now,
because all the other hits are highs. To this day I'm not sure
exactly what this move is for, I personally use it as a confusion tactic
and to move closer to my opponent.
The air version is a decent anti-air and crossup tactic. The air
version is also a potential juggle starter.
The move works decently in some juggles, and can work as a
once-in-a-while anti-air against a bad jump-in.
Oh yeah, a caveat. You have severe time disadvantage if the move
actually connects!
You're better off if they block it. Your opponent has enough time to do
a super if it connects. Yuck.
A Hugo in the know can get hit by the move on purpose and gigas break you!
A Ryu can do the same and do ShinShoRyuKen.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 6: Supers.
Just one note about damage: When your bar changes to orange, you take
significantly less damage, so it's hard to calculate damage since moves
look to do more damage at the start of a match.
I: ShoRyuReppa. 12 hits, about 25-30% damage on Ryu.
Charge Max two.
All hits are special mid except for the last two, which are highs.
The super is basically 2 fierce dragon punches followed by a 6 hit
dragon punch. The super nobody uses.
If you like comboing into super for damage, use this super. Of all
the supers, this one is the most versatile. It's also the slowest.
The trick to using this super is watching the range. If opponents are
too far, or too high, the super will miss. It has more horizontal range
than Shinryuken and more vertical range than shippujinraikyaku, but it
doesn't do anything well.
If you combo into it, the horizontal range increases.
The super is invincible on start up. You can go through fireballs, but
it travels too slow to punish people with this trick.
The only supers that have more priority than this super are:
Ryu's ShinShoRyuKen
Akuma's MessatsuGoShoRyu
It will STUFF all other supers on startup.
Recommended ways of landing it:
Super cancelled off fierce dragon punch on the ground
(learn those short -> dragon punch combos!)
As a deep anti-air.(You'll get 7 to 9 hits, but the damage is still good)
After a jump-in
After a quick poke, such as crouching short or crouching forward kick.
After Ken's toward + roundhouse overhead (OWWW, mad skills if you can land it)
Use to go through Akuma's air-fireball and give him an unpleasant
surprise. Go through an Aegis Reflector and give Urien an unpleasant
surprise.
II: ShinRyuKen. 15 hits, about 30-35% damage on Ryu.
Charge Max one.
Everyone uses this super as an anti-air. That's what it's good for.
Don't forget that it's also very comboable.
The first 3 hits are special mid, the rest of the hits make Ken soar
into the air.
Recommended ways of landing it:
Super cancelled or comboed off any dragon punch on an
air opponent.
After a jump-in
After Ken's toward + roundhouse overhead (Risky).
III: ShippuJinraiKyaku. 9 hits About the same damage as fierce->
dragon punch. Charge Max 3.
This is the rush super of Ken's. Very comboable. The best thing about
it, since it does very little damage for a super, super cancelling it
doesn't affect it as much. The first 5 moves are all special mid, but
the hits must be parried high. If the super is blocked, Ken stops on
the fifth hit. The bad thing about this super is that the priority sucks.
It'll stuff moves normals and specials, but don't count on it. Don't try
to stuff command throws with this super. Use the ShoRyuReppa if you want
to do that.
Recommended ways of landing it:
Off any super cancel on the ground.
(Do not use jab dragon punch, it'll launch)
After a jump-in
After a quick poke.
After either of Ken's overheads.
(Back + forward kick)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 7: Basic Tactics.
My basic tactic is to take advantage of the fact that ken's moves are
so comboable and try to link his damaging moves into his quicker and
higher priority pokes. This is my plan from the beginning, and involves
a lot of close and mid range games that allow Ken to take advantage of all
of his specials and supers. It's a simple battle plan, and effective.
The key things to remember are quick safe pokes comboed into damaging
moves when they connect (and only when), and a tight defense.
That's it, really inelegant. I also know it's very irritating on the
receiving end. There are very few openings (to a perfectly played Ken),
and as soon as a mistake is made, wham! quick damaging combo.
a. Ken's flaws.
I'd have to say Ken's biggest flaws are his bad recovery on many moves
and his lack of a long range game. All of his specials favor close range
except for his hadoken, and all of his damaging moves have horrendous end
lag. Try to stay away from those slow moves and doing random supers, and
go for those pokes. Eventually you will get an opening.
Moves to be careful of because of lag:
hadouken
all fierce and roundhouse moves.
tatsumakiSenpuuKyaku
his command overheads
his sweep
Did I mention his sweep?
Let me mention his sweep one more time.
All jump-ins.
b. Some Other stuff.
Ken has amazing anti-air, but a crappy air game, so try to stay out
of the air. Make sure to use more than just dragon punches as an
anti-air. Keep in mind that you can punish stupidly whiffed moves with
an ex-hadoken fairly often. Do not do crouching forward kick -> fireball
if either you or your opponent is in the corner.
This is important! Even if the fireball hits, your opponent has enough
time to retaliate. Do not do a fireball if either you or your opponent
is in the corner.
Do not do full screen fireballs unless you are SURE they cannot
retaliate. If you block a sweep, resist the urge to sweep in return.
Try to land crouching forward kick instead. If they are out of range,
don't attempt anything.
c. Poking and Initiative.
When poking, try to keep poking, and give them a hard time attacking
back. This is difficult on expert players, true, but it is very
frustrating when you get into your rhythm. If you can help it, try not
to back up. I notice people have a lot of trouble again Yun/Yang/Akuma
players, and it is important that you are the one dictating the match in
these kinds of fights. If you are doing nothing except blocking, in
general you will not win unless your opponent does something stupid.
Avoid this at all cost.
d. Keep Away.
Ken's keep away sucks, it consists of the classic hadoken, hadoken,
shoryuken when they jump trick. He can't back up his fireball, so he has
no real range game. It's still useful to take note of against
characters such as Q and Hugo. The tough part is when your opponent does
keep away back. That's tough to deal with. Obviously you want to get
close and pressure, but in the event you can't crack the keep away, try
to watch for patterns and openings. If you cannot parry, you will lose
to a keep away character such as Remy every single time, so learn to parry
moves used to push you back.
Classic ones are Akuma's air fireball and Remy's Light of Virtue,
Cold Blue Kick tactics. Oh, and ShoRyuReppa is invincible on start up,
but don't rely on that tactic.
e. Turtling.
With a dragon punch and very good supers (all 3 supers work well in this
regard), Ken is good at active turtling, as long as the attacks are
close range attacks. Block a sweep, block a fireball, ShippuJinraiKyaku
right away. Parry a poke, dragon punch -> ShoRyuReppa or ShinRyuKen
Stuff throw attempts with any of his supers, and command throws with
ShoRyuReppa or ShinRyuKen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 8: Combos.
Ken's a very basic combo character. Nothing special.
The order to remember is:
Jump-in -> Normal -> Special -> Super
Any jump in, any special (yes, even tatsumaki senpuu kyaku), and any
super. You can use any normal that gives you enough stun to link another
move together or is cancellable into a special or super.
Those are the rules, with that, you can imagine how many combos he has.
It doesn't matter what jump-in you do.
I recommend using crouching forward kick for most of your combos.
Don't get fancy, even if you know you can do some wacky combo.
In general, a few damaging hits comboed together do more than Ken's
flashier combos. So keep it simple.
Ken's Cancellable moves:
Standing jab
crouching jab
crouching short
standing strong (close)
crouching strong
crouching forward kick
standing fierce (close)
crouching fierce
For Damage, Damaging combos without supers.
close strong -> close fierce -> jab dragon punch
(Do after a cross up jumping forward kick)
crouching fierce -> fierce dragon punch (or ex dragon punch)
crouching forward -> fierce dragon punch (or ex dragon punch)
Learn to do that Dragon punch successfully whenever a cancellable poke
connects and your game will improve vastly! Suddenly that low short
isn't such a weak poke anymore.
For combos with a bit more safety.
(Watch for fast supers though!!!)
crouching forward -> fireball or ex fireball.
crouching forward -> short hurricance kick
close strong -> close fierce -> fierce hadoken
crouching fierce -> hadoken
Note that none of them are really completely safe.
Must know super combos.
crouching short -> crouching short -> ShippuJinraiKyaku
Probably the easiest way to land this super in tournament play
Name of Cancellable Normal -> Any Super
Toward + roundhouse -> Any Super
(Overhead into super. Surprise people)
fierce dragon punch (2 hits) -> shoryureppa or shinryuken
(This super cancel is a great way to land anti-airs or to deal with
people who try to air parry your dragon punch)
Damaging Super Combos.
jump-in roundhouse -> crouching fierce -> any super
close strong -> close fierce -> shippu jinrai kyaku
jump-in roundhouse -> crouching forward -> fierce dragon punch (2 hits)
-> shippu jinrai kyaku
Juggles:
I'm not too good on this section. For one thing, juggles aren't too
universal with Ken. They vary depending on your opponent's size and
weight, as well as certain conditions. In general, to do a juggle you
want to launch them so another hit will hit afterwards. This was MUCH
easier to do in older versions of SF3, but it can still be done.
I first took note of juggles when I saw Ryu's jumping short -> standing
roundhouse juggle, and since then I've found that some characters have
some nasty guaranteed juggles.
Ken's launchers only launch people already in the air. (sigh)
Ken's launchers are:
Jab dragon punch
Crouching fierce (Difficult to get anything now though!)
air hurricane kick
ex air hurricane kick
jumping jab or short.
The easiest followup is a normal such as standing forward kick or a
dragon punch. The supers also make pretty good followups, and some of his
flashier combos involve incredibly wacky juggles with supers in them.
I've actually seen on Hugo in the air in the corner:
jumping short -> standing jab -> standing forward kick
-> air hurricane kick -> crouching strong cancelled -> shoryureppa
-> shoryureppa -> air hurricane kick -> standing jab
-> standing forward kick
It was 16 hits, since most of the super missed, but impressive none the
less. The stun was incredible, the actual damage pathetic, considering
two supers were burned. Then again, jump in roundhouse ->
crouching fierce -> shoryureppa would have done more damage anyways.
Also, for the life of me, I've never ever been able to reproduce such a
flashy combo. For the most part, just keep your eye on when your opponent
is falling in front of you. With experience, you'll know what you can
and can't land.
Note: I've actually retried doing that above combo. Ugh. Maybe it's
a system's option only combo..I don't really understand how it works.
Here are some common, easier juggles, naturally the opponent has to be
in the air first:
jab dragon punch -> jab dragon punch. You have to land the first one so
they fall upward then
down at your feet. It doesn't matter whether the first hit is the hit
on the ground or if the hit is the hit after Ken has already swung into
the air in the classic dragon punch stance.
air hurricane kick -> dragon punch. Corner only.
Jumping short -> dragon punch. Easier in corner. It's difficult to get
this to work right, I don't really know how to do this consistently.
Since all these juggles only occur on an opponent in the air, I don't
really see how one can land these in any sort of higher level game.
--------------------------------------------------------
Part 9: New Stuff/Stuff that was changed.
1. High Jump is useful. Getting above your opponent gives you an edge
in priority. It can help. I also always high jump to get out of stun
gun headbutt setups.
2. You cannot be hit while tech rolling.
3. Universal overhead into super is possible, but it's difficult
to do.
4. Throwing into super is possible in 3rd strike.
Use Ken's flip throw and cancel into shippu jinrai kyaku in the corner
(back + jab + short) Yay! Two hit combo!
5. Using jump jab as a juggle starter usually just does a reset. It is
possible to get a juggle, but you have to hit them before they flip upright.
6. Jump strong is probably your best option when in an air-air fight
after a parry. If you parry an air move and try to air fierce, occasionally
your opponent can air parry you back.
7. Standing forward is slow, but is a decent poke because it's mostly safe
when blocked. You can do the move, and then shoryuken their retaliation.
When your opponent starts turling after the standing forward kick, then
you can start your options.
8. Shoryureppa will go through Dudley's cross counter, ex or not, on startup.
9. Use Ken's short hurricane kick to go past Remy's low light of virtue's. You can
parry, but the hurricane kick moves you forward.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Part 10: Damage/Combos Revised
There is quite a bit of confusion as to how damage works in this game.
I think I can finally clarify exactly how damage works in 3rd strike.
First, the lifebar is exactly 161 points. It doesn't matter if it's Q,
Hugo, Ibuki, or whatever, a lifebar is EXACTLY 161 points.
It always takes 32 BLOCKED hurricane kicks and a BLOCKED fireball to kill
someone regardless of their toughness.
Now, let's assume we're beating down on Ryu, because Ryu is nice and average.
So for all the numbers I show next, remember that I got them from beating on
Ryu.
Second, while the lifebar is green or yellow, the move always does its normal
damage. For instance, Ken's jab shoryuken does 22 points. Ken's standing
roundhouse also does 22 points. Ken's short kick does 2 points.
However, when the lifebar is orange, the character takes significantly less.
When the lifebar first hits orange, it takes 10 percent less damage.
Ken's Jab shoryuken that originally did 22 points does 20 points when the
lifebar first hits orange. However, as the lifebar gets smaller and smaller,
eventually the character will take up to 20 percent less. By the time there's
almost no lifebar, Ken's shoryuken only does 17 damage.
This is true for ALL characters.
To make things more confusing though, there is an actual damage bonus if you hit
a character that is crouching. Now Ken's shoryuken will do 27 damage while the
lifebar is green/yellow, and will do 22-24 damage when the lifebar is orange.
The damage bonus is about 20-30 percent, but varies with rounding. A crouch short
that does 2 points does 3 points to a crouching character. However, the bonus
only applies when the character is hit when crouching. Sometimes hits in
a combo will stand characters up, so damage will vary as a result.
Ryu's low forward -> shinkuu hadoken does 49 points on a standing Ryu. But
the combo will do 63 damage on a crouching Ryu. Ken's low forward -> shippu
jinrai kyaku combo also does 49 damage on a standing Ryu. But the combo will
only do 54 damage on a crouching Ryu. Odd? Well, the thing is, when you do
low forward -> shinkuu hadoken, all of the hits keep the victim crouching.
In Ken's case, the first hit of shippu jinrai kyaku will stand UP the opponent,
so all of the other hits do NOT get the bonus. Many specials and supers
cause the opponent to stand up after the first hit. Characters hit in the air
take damage as if standing.
The only exception to this rule is throws. Throws NEVER get this crouching
damage bonus. This INCLUDES command grabs and super grabs.
Now, this puts a damper in finding the most damaging combo because sometimes
the most damaging combo does LESS damage than another combo on a crouching
opponent if some of the early hits cause the opponent to stand up.
Finally, there is damage toning to consider.
Damage toning is basically the reduction of damage of hits in a combo.
Unlike other street fighter
games though, the damage toning in this game is different. The amount of
damage reduced is modified by both the damage of the move, the number of hits,
and whether it is a special or super. Most other street fighter games like
the vs. series calculate damage toning by number of hits.
Take Sean's Hadou burst for example. It does 32 points.
If you do low forward -> hadou burst (2 hit combo), the hadou burst portion will
do 30 points. If you do crouch fierce -> hadou burst (also a 2 hit combo), the
super portion will do 28 damage.
If you do fierce dragon punch -> hadou burst (also a 2 hit combo), the super
portion will do a measly 24 damage. If you do c. short -> hadou burst, the
super doesn't damage tone at all and still does 32 points.
In general:
a. The more damage a move does, the bigger the reduction.
b. Specials reduce damage more than normals.
c. Supers reduce damage more than specials.
d. The more hits in a combo, the bigger the reduction. A shoryuken does
less if it is the eighth hit, as compared to the 2nd hit in a combo.
However, because a move causes lots of damage reduction doesn't mean it's not
worth adding into a combo. Sometimes super cancels do more damage than
other combos. Sometimes super cancels aren't worth doing. It's not always
clear cut. In general, if a special move does a lot of damage in one hit,
it's worth adding in, but that varies quite a bit.
Okay, but what about characters other than Ryu/Ken? Once again, their lifebar is
161 points, regardless of how tough the character is. Q with 3 taunts still dies
to 32 blocked hurricane kicks and one blocked fireball. However, other
characters often take a percentage less/more than Ryu. As is widely known,
Akuma takes the worse damage.
Akuma Ryu Hugo Q(3Taunts)
Ken's Jab shoryuken 26 22 19 13
strong -> fierce -> shoryuken 49 40 35 23
low forward -> shippu jinrai kyaku 61 49 44 27
Chun's Hoyuk-sen 68 54 46 28
Ryu's c. mk -> shoruken -> shinsho 104 86 76 49
As you can see, it's all about doing big combos on Akuma. He feels those
even more than normal. On Q with 3 taunts, doing big combos is hopeless...you
start doing a pixel or two per hit around hit number 5 with Ken.
Other faqs have listed the difference between toughness, so I'm not going to
repeat that here.
For that information, you can find it at:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/street_fighter_iii_3rd_strike.txt
In Kao Megura's very well written 3rd strike faq.
Some supers change how much damage a character does/takes. Twelve's x-copy
and Makoto's Tanden Renki are examples. For info on that, look up faqs on those
two characters.
Last, but not least, there is no damage bonus for counterhits or first attack.
However, on the recovery of some character's moves the character will take extra
damage. The end of Twelve's X-copy or if Dudley gets hit during cross-
counter are examples. Unlike the crouch damage bonus, this damage bonus seems
to affect every hit in a combo.
Okay, enough blabbing about the messed up damage engine. Onto more interesting
info.
All moves are done on Ryu. 160 points takes away all of a characters lifebar
if you ignore what the orange health does. 161 points will actually kill.
Move Name Damage
jab 2
short 5
far strong 13
close strong 14
forward 16
far fierce 19
close. fierce 19
roundhouse 22
c. jab 2
c. short 2
c. strong 13
c. forward 12
c. fierce 19
c. roundhouse 19
j. jab 8
j. short 7
j. strong 14
j. forward 13
j. fierce 19
j. roundhouse 19
j. -> jab 7
j. -> short 7
j. -> strong 14
j. -> forward 13
j. -> fierce 19
j. -> roundhouse 18
b + forward 9+8=17
T + roundhouse 17
jab shoryuken 22
str shoryuken 16+7=23
fie shoryuken 11+8+6=25
ex shoryuken 11+7+5+5=28
Hadoken(all buttons) 8
ex hadoken 8+8=16
short hurricane 11+4=15
forward hurricane 8+4+4+3=19
rhouse hurricane 8+4+4+3+3=22
ex hurricane kick 8+4+4+4+4+3=27
shippu jinrai kyaku 11+5+5+5+4+2+2+2+4=40
shoryureppa 55
shinryuken 68
Big whoop.
Now, what about combos? This is trickier, because a combo may do more on a
crouching character than others, and damage reduction varies quite a bit.
First parenthesis is damage on a standing Ryu, 2nd is on a crouching Ryu.
I also avoided combos that don't work on crouching characters. These combos
work on everyone.
c. forward kick -> hadoken (12+8=20) (15+10=25)
c. forward -> ex hadoken (12+8+7=27)(15+10+7=32) (hadoken causes stand)
c. strong -> hadoken (13+8=21)(16+10=26)
c. fierce -> hadoken(19+7=26)(23+9=32)
strong -> fierce -> hadoken (14+8+7=29) (18+10+9=37)
strong -> fierce -> jab shoryuken (14+8+18=40) (18+10+23=51)
c. short -> c. short -> c. short (2+2+1=5)(3+2+2=7)
c. short -> fierce shoryuken (27)(35)
c. forward -> fierce shoryuken(36)(44)
fierce -> fierce shoryuken (42)(52)
For raw damage without super, fierce -> fierce shoryuken and strong -> fierce
-> shoryuken win hands down. Notice that these combos without super do as
much damage as an uncomboed shippu jinrai kyaku.
Now for the shippu jinrai kyaku:
The problem with this super is that the first hit stands the character.
As a result, this isn't exactly the best punisher of crouchers. However,
the super is versatile and it does charge fast.
shippu jinrai kyaku (40) (43) (Only the first hit gets the crouch bonus)
c. forward -> shippu (49) (54)
c. forward -> hadoken -> shippu (48) (53) (Not worth doing)
c. forward -> strong shoryuken -> shippu (55) (62)
c. forward -> fierce shoryuken -> shippu (51) (58)
strong -> fierce -> shippu (54) (62)
strong -> fierce -> hadoken -> shippu (51) (61)
c. fierce -> shippu (53) (59)
c. fierce -> hadoken -> shippu (50) (56)
c. fierce -> strong shoryuken -> shippu (57) (67)
c. fierce -> fierce shoryuken -> shippu (53) (62)
b + forward kick (overhead) -> shippu (not possible) (59)
t + roundhouse (overhead) -> shippu (not possible) (62) (This combo is VERY HARD)
UOH -> shippu (not possible) (50)
The overhead tricks only work on crouching characters. For raw damage, using
strong -> fierce is best because the chain will combo even after a jump-in.
It is very difficult to do c. fierce -> strong shoryuken -> super cancel off
a jump-in without crossing up. This is very different from what I thought when
I put in the original combo section of this Ken guide.
Now for the shoryureppa: Obviously from above super cancelling with hadokens
or fierce shoryuken isn't worth it because neither move does as much damage
as the strong shoryuken. Once again, the shoryureppa stands up after the
first hit.
shoryureppa (55)(58)
c. forward -> shoryureppa (64)(69)
c. forward -> strong dragon punch -> shoryureppa (64)(71)
c. fierce -> shoryureppa (67) (73)
c. fierce -> strong shoryuken -> shoryureppa (66) (76)
strong -> fierce -> shoryureppa (67) (75)
When the opponent is standing, c. fierce and strong -> fierce are the combos
to use. However, on a crouching opponent c. fierce -> strong shoryuken
super cancel is the way to go. Confusing isn't it? While the difference
in damage is miniscule, this helps illustrate why it's so hard to say..
What is Ken's most damaging combo? In this case...the answer is
"It depends." This works out this way because neither c. fierce
nor strong shoryuken stand up..so there's a big damage bonus...but the
super also damage reduces a bit more because of the extra hits.
Now for the shinryuken:
shinryuken (68) (71)
c. forward -> shinryuken (76) (82)
c. forward -> strong dragon punch -> shinryuken (73) (81)
c. fierce -> shinryuken (78) (85)
c. fierce -> strong dragon punch -> shinryuken (75) (85)
strong -> fierce -> shinryuken (76) (84)
I would like to thank the Berkeley Bearcade for all the hours of
entertainment. Now if only the sticks were as nice as the Golflands.
I would also like to thank John Choi. I'll probably never beat him, but he
promotes competition at our arcade. He's also a pretty cool guy.
More thanks to:
Jyh <- I think he's white. Just kidding.
Patrick <- Genei Jin Yun, beatdown with Ibuki.
Danny <-I've never seen anyone kill John Choi in 3rd strike in 20 seconds before
Carlos <- Fellow Ken player. Not as reckless as me, so gives me trouble
Quincy <- One of the best the bearcade had to offer in 3rd strike. Mad Elena
Chris <- He sucks at 3rd strike. Ahh well, thanks anyways..Always entertaining
Steve <- He sucks even more at 3rd strike, but he'd crush me in MvC2 anyday.
Brian <- Up and coming...learned a lot faster than I ever did
Brian Mao <- Enjoying getting trashed in 3S in Japan? Another psycho Yun
Ken <- Aren't you supposed to suck? You've been holding back on us!
Mouko, Peter <- Used to be a big fan of 3S.
and countless other nameless players that have helped to make me a better
player.